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Should Hill Really be our starter?

Should Hill Really be our starter?

  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,555
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Wow, we are two weeks away from the season and only 28% suppport for our starting QB because he had a mediocre half of football...

I am not sure how much football you all watch, but how many games are won in the first half?..... almost none! Unless the game becomes a blowout, no way is the first half anything more than position scoring...

He did not look great, even decent would be pushing it. He misconnected on some throws that should have been there, but to lose sooo much support over 30 minutes of football... wow... im speechless...

The first half of preseason games 1-3 are the only time you will see 1st string vs 1st string. Also if you look at Hill's #s he seems to have slowly regressed since
his few starts in 2007. He is not getting worse, the more he plays the more his weaknesses are exploited. Best example was against the Rams last year. In the first game his rating is an eye popping 142.3 the 2nd time they saw him a miserable 55.5, that would have been much lower if not for a lucky 4th quarter bomb. There is a reason his NFL game experience amounted to a few kneel downs
before the 49ers picked him up, he is not that good. Looking clumsy and uncomfortable in preaseason is not the thing you want to see from your starting QB. Unfortunately Alex Smith even though healthy looks terrible also, and Nate Davis is nowhere near ready to have a chance at starting. Let us just hope the Gore, Coffee, and Sheets trio can average a 150 yards + a game and the defense
continues to improve or this is going to be another 7-9 season at best.
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Hill is our starter, so I support him.

However, I am concerned that our offense plays at a disadvantage as the oppossing defense's clearly recognize that Q.B. Hill due to his limited arm strength, simply cannot make all the throws to all parts of the field.

Therefore, defense's do not have to worry or game plan for throws to certain parts or depths of the field.... because Hill can't make them.

We have a starting Q.B. who has limitation on his passing skills due to his arm strength, just a fact.

Mike Martz knew this, Jimmy Raye now knows this.... and most scary is the defenses know this!

One more time...this!

this is a tired argument....Hill has shown he can be successful in Martz's offense and makes most of the pass need for a team to be successful.... defenses had a chance to adjust to Hill last year and they couldn't...when it counted, Hill still moved the ball on these NFL defenses....

again it is still preseason....so I'm not going to overreact that defenses have OMG figured Hill out.

we run the ball 2 straight times then on 3rd down we miss blocks......yes this has also happened to Alex....some are saying we are just making excuse for Hill....well there is a difference...

when Alex was finally "freed" as some were screaming for the team to do..... he still struggled more times than not...... Hill has shown that he can effectively pass on 1st or 2nd down.....and this is what I'm looking forward to in the regular season....

if the play calling doesn't change in the regular season....then we all can start to panic.

Hill hasn't done this with any consistency to this point this year. Also if it was just excuses for Smith, then why should it be any different for Hill? That's just BS, Hill hasn't had to deal with half of what Smith has had to. You do not even take into account how much better this team is than the teams Smith started on, but you want a pass for Hill because of play calling? Play calling were not what was making him throw those terrible passes. I am willing to wait till the real games start to see if this is just an aberration, but it is looking like a developing trend. If you want to complain about play calling, just remember that having a QB that struggles throwing a decent deep ball limits the plays that can be called.

lets talk about Alex for a second.....lot of his homers make it seem like he is GREAT at throwing the deep ball.....he has not attempted to throw a deep ball all preseason....why?....is it because he is a "QB that struggles throwing a decent deep ball which limits the plays that can be called"?

also watching yesterdays game....we moved the ball with Hill back there...it wasn't a coincidence that our drives stalled on the downs we decided to pull out the wild tazer....

again though, yes it is just preseason so lets see how the season goes.

We were moving the ball due to the running game, the minute Hill had to start throwing the ball, everything went to crap.

Not one of his scoring drives has ended in a TD. That's a major thing to be worried about. Every time he gets inside of the 30, his drives stall and Nedney (or Romeo) had to come out (this goes for all 3 games).

did you watch the game yesterday? or again today?

can I ask you.....you say that we were moving the ball due to the running game...and the minute Hill had to start throwing the ball, "everything went to crap"....

Hill went 9/17....so he completed 9 passes...... out of those 9 passes, 6 of them got us 1st downs.

So Hill converted 6 first downs by passing the ball.

look, again...this is just preseason, so what ever.....but I think that when we have Gore back there to help pass protect....I think we will do better when ever we do pass the ball.

First downs mean jack squat if you fail to score points. I don't care if he throws for 6 first downs on one drive, if the drive stalls and you get no points, its a failed drive.

do you know why our drives stalled? let me know why each of our drives stalled when he was the QB....look into it and get back to me.....if not then I'm just wasting my time with you.

first you say we drove the ball because of our running game and when ever Hill threw the ball "everything went to crap"....but now your changing what you're saying....so which is it?

3 of the drives ended on stupid Wildcat calls, the drive after Roman's pick Hill was horrible (that pass to Bruce was terrible)

However, his drives have been stalling all preseason, not just last night. He's only been able to deliver FGs. You're not going to win very many games by just scoring FGs.

That's the issue I'm having with Hill this year. He moves the ball down the field and stalls inside the 30 and has to settle for a FG.

the first preseason game...on his only drive, he drove us down field....and on 3rd down we decided to run on 3rd and 3. Who knows what would have happened if we passed the ball....but that drive stop and we got 3 points.... we drove down the field for 60 yards.....we started around the 20 yard line and we ended around their 20 yard line..........and that was that for Shaun.

so the next week he is expect to stay sharp after only getting on drive and sitting out the rest of the game.....then on top of that, in the next game...he has to come in the second qtr...and is expected to stay sharp?...excuses...fine what ever..... but you say that his drives have been stalling all season....well that is not necessarily true.

the fact is, in the 1st two preseason games....Shaun was allowed 3 real drives.

the first one we got 3pts
the second one (Raider game, him came off the bench) the drive stalled right away.
the third one...we got 3pts (Hill missed Vernon in the endzone)

the forth one wasn't really a drive...there was :29 seconds left when we got the ball and we just ran out the clock to end the half.

so 2 of the 3 real drives....we scored.....we drove down the field.

and yesterday on his first drive....he helped us move downfield for another score.
I support both Hill and Alex. But I must say I am amused how the anti-Smith fans howled "excuse" every time an Alex supporter tried to defend him or explain why he was struggling. Now these very same Hill supporters are trying to explain why Hill is struggling. Excuses?
Originally posted by excelsior:
I support both Hill and Alex. But I must say I am amused how the anti-Smith fans howled "excuse" every time an Alex supporter tried to defend him or explain why he was struggling. Now these very same Hill supporters are trying to explain why Hill is struggling. Excuses?

actually it started when Alex homers were blaming Rattay for our struggles....but when Alex came in...it was the teams fault..... so what ever.

Hill doesn't really need that much defending...the facts speak for themselves.

if you watch our games carefully or rewatch the games....you would see he is doing fine....it is just preseason.
  • Mex49
  • Member
  • Posts: 2,979
Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
Dallas is touted to be one of the better teams in the league along with the Patriots, Colts, Giants, Eagles and Chargers. Did we really expect Hill and company to go into Dallas and tear them up?

Maybe someone failed to see that the OFFENSIVE line wasn't giving Hill much protection! Inspite of that, they were only 7 points down at the end of the 1st half!

Davis looks very good, but let's not lose the fact that he played against the 2nd and 3rd strigers. So don't jump into the conclusion that he would have fared better against the Cowboys 1st team.

Too many people here give up too soon. Gore has a bad day and he's ready to be replaced. Hill has a bad day and he's ready to be replaced. Maybe if Joe Nedney would have missed that 1st half field goal, peeps here would be calling for his head too!

Sheesh!


Your name sounds homosexual like
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Hill is our starter, so I support him.

However, I am concerned that our offense plays at a disadvantage as the oppossing defense's clearly recognize that Q.B. Hill due to his limited arm strength, simply cannot make all the throws to all parts of the field.

Therefore, defense's do not have to worry or game plan for throws to certain parts or depths of the field.... because Hill can't make them.

We have a starting Q.B. who has limitation on his passing skills due to his arm strength, just a fact.

Mike Martz knew this, Jimmy Raye now knows this.... and most scary is the defenses know this!

One more time...this!

this is a tired argument....Hill has shown he can be successful in Martz's offense and makes most of the pass need for a team to be successful.... defenses had a chance to adjust to Hill last year and they couldn't...when it counted, Hill still moved the ball on these NFL defenses....

again it is still preseason....so I'm not going to overreact that defenses have OMG figured Hill out.

we run the ball 2 straight times then on 3rd down we miss blocks......yes this has also happened to Alex....some are saying we are just making excuse for Hill....well there is a difference...

when Alex was finally "freed" as some were screaming for the team to do..... he still struggled more times than not...... Hill has shown that he can effectively pass on 1st or 2nd down.....and this is what I'm looking forward to in the regular season....

if the play calling doesn't change in the regular season....then we all can start to panic.

Hill hasn't done this with any consistency to this point this year. Also if it was just excuses for Smith, then why should it be any different for Hill? That's just BS, Hill hasn't had to deal with half of what Smith has had to. You do not even take into account how much better this team is than the teams Smith started on, but you want a pass for Hill because of play calling? Play calling were not what was making him throw those terrible passes. I am willing to wait till the real games start to see if this is just an aberration, but it is looking like a developing trend. If you want to complain about play calling, just remember that having a QB that struggles throwing a decent deep ball limits the plays that can be called.

lets talk about Alex for a second.....lot of his homers make it seem like he is GREAT at throwing the deep ball.....he has not attempted to throw a deep ball all preseason....why?....is it because he is a "QB that struggles throwing a decent deep ball which limits the plays that can be called"?

also watching yesterdays game....we moved the ball with Hill back there...it wasn't a coincidence that our drives stalled on the downs we decided to pull out the wild tazer....

again though, yes it is just preseason so lets see how the season goes.

We were moving the ball due to the running game, the minute Hill had to start throwing the ball, everything went to crap.

Not one of his scoring drives has ended in a TD. That's a major thing to be worried about. Every time he gets inside of the 30, his drives stall and Nedney (or Romeo) had to come out (this goes for all 3 games).

did you watch the game yesterday? or again today?

can I ask you.....you say that we were moving the ball due to the running game...and the minute Hill had to start throwing the ball, "everything went to crap"....

Hill went 9/17....so he completed 9 passes...... out of those 9 passes, 6 of them got us 1st downs.

So Hill converted 6 first downs by passing the ball.

look, again...this is just preseason, so what ever.....but I think that when we have Gore back there to help pass protect....I think we will do better when ever we do pass the ball.

First downs mean jack squat if you fail to score points. I don't care if he throws for 6 first downs on one drive, if the drive stalls and you get no points, its a failed drive.

do you know why our drives stalled? let me know why each of our drives stalled when he was the QB....look into it and get back to me.....if not then I'm just wasting my time with you.

first you say we drove the ball because of our running game and when ever Hill threw the ball "everything went to crap"....but now your changing what you're saying....so which is it?

3 of the drives ended on stupid Wildcat calls, the drive after Roman's pick Hill was horrible (that pass to Bruce was terrible)

However, his drives have been stalling all preseason, not just last night. He's only been able to deliver FGs. You're not going to win very many games by just scoring FGs.

That's the issue I'm having with Hill this year. He moves the ball down the field and stalls inside the 30 and has to settle for a FG.

the first preseason game...on his only drive, he drove us down field....and on 3rd down we decided to run on 3rd and 3. Who knows what would have happened if we passed the ball....but that drive stop and we got 3 points.... we drove down the field for 60 yards.....we started around the 20 yard line and we ended around their 20 yard line..........and that was that for Shaun.

so the next week he is expect to stay sharp after only getting on drive and sitting out the rest of the game.....then on top of that, in the next game...he has to come in the second qtr...and is expected to stay sharp?...excuses...fine what ever..... but you say that his drives have been stalling all season....well that is not necessarily true.

the fact is, in the 1st two preseason games....Shaun was allowed 3 real drives.

the first one we got 3pts
the second one (Raider game, him came off the bench) the drive stalled right away.
the third one...we got 3pts (Hill missed Vernon in the endzone)

the forth one wasn't really a drive...there was :29 seconds left when we got the ball and we just ran out the clock to end the half.

so 2 of the 3 real drives....we scored.....we drove down the field.

and yesterday on his first drive....he helped us move downfield for another score.

Did you forget to read the part where I mentioned that he's driving the ball down the field, but all he's getting are FG's, not TDs. If he continues that into the regular season, he'll do nothing but lose games.

You're not going to win very many games by just scoring FGs, you have to score TDs, so far Hill hasn't done that at all this year. Granted its preseason, I'll give him that, but if he carries it over into the regular season, he won't be the starter for very long and that 7-3 record will mean less then it already does.

Hill could throw for over 300yds but if all he's doing is delivering FGs, it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by excelsior:
I support both Hill and Alex. But I must say I am amused how the anti-Smith fans howled "excuse" every time an Alex supporter tried to defend him or explain why he was struggling. Now these very same Hill supporters are trying to explain why Hill is struggling. Excuses?

And they're coming up with the exact same excuses. The o-line isn't giving him enough time (called an Alexcuse), his back was still hurt (injury, called an Alexcuse), the WRs are dropping passes (another Alexcuse).

If one thing is going to be an excuse for one QB (Smith since he was first), then it has to be an excuse for the other QB. There's no picking and choosing what's an excuse and what's not.
  • fan49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,167
Originally posted by young9er:
Here's the most important stat you need to know:

Shaun Hill Turnovers = 0

For Christ's sake, do you guys even remember the last 4 years? Having a quaterback that doesn't single handedly LOOSE US THE GAME is in itself an improvement. I swore after JTO'fumbles I would never complain about the 49ers having a conservative QB who was smart with the football, even if our offense was mediocre as a result. Were not good enough to take risks and win games on superior talent. The only way were going to win 8+ games is to eliminate our mistakes and hopefully take advantage of other teams mistakes.

All the QB threads on here it's like if the guy doesn't throw a touchdown pass it's the end of the world, and if he throws 2 touchdowns he's the new Joe Montana.

turnovers can be good. they come when qb's take chances. and those chances end up being hhuge rewards or a turnover. the best qb's get turnovers. but i got a stat for you

NATE DAVIS- 0 turnovers, and multiple td drives.

SHAUN HILL- 0 turnovers, 0 td drives
  • fan49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,167
Originally posted by smithgdwg:
I wish the regular season would hurry up and get here, so we can have an actual game to base our opinions on.

Preseason is basically worthless when determining how well the season will be.

please tell me how a real game is going to be different? you play all out no matter what gore is coffee is. every one is including hill. but hill is not getting it done!
  • fan49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,167
Originally posted by marshniners24:
Pre season shme season

Shaun hill delivers when it REALLY matter[/quote]

u make no sense..... sing says it matters. so against vanilla defenses in preseason he cant lead a td drive. but when the defenses go hard he will?
Yes Hill should be the starter. It's really quite simple too, because while Hill hasn't done much, Smith didn't do enough to take the job. Personally I feel that both of these guys are mediocre at best.

What I find the most funny is that Hill supporters are now using the same excuses that Smith supporters have used for years. It's the receivers not getting open, it's the o-line, it's the play calling. The truth is that the guy has not looked like the same player that ended the season. I'm hoping that it nothing more than poor preseason play and he'll revert back to his normal self once the season starts.

Either way, I expect to see Alex as the starter at some point during the season, because of either injury or poor play. For the moment they're the best we have. Huard is no better and Davis, while promising is not ready. I'd really rather not repeat the mistakes that were made with Smith.
  • fan49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,167
Originally posted by BMore9ersfan:
Yes Hill should be the starter. It's really quite simple too, because while Hill hasn't done much, Smith didn't do enough to take the job. Personally I feel that both of these guys are mediocre at best.

What I find the most funny is that Hill supporters are now using the same excuses that Smith supporters have used for years. It's the receivers not getting open, it's the o-line, it's the play calling. The truth is that the guy has not looked like the same player that ended the season. I'm hoping that it nothing more than poor preseason play and he'll revert back to his normal self once the season starts.

Either way, I expect to see Alex as the starter at some point during the season, because of either injury or poor play. For the moment they're the best we have. Huard is no better and Davis, while promising is not ready. I'd really rather not repeat the mistakes that were made with Smith.

i really think davis is different... he has tooooo much composure. even acc. to sing
EVERYONE knows what Hill offers and what he doesnt. Now this is his chance to be the guy and that showing on Saturday was not the way you want to start. Dallas exposed the things, we all knew about Hill: No mobility (in the pocket)and a Noodle arm. I just don't see how he can get us anywhere. He'll get us a couple of wins, but he's not taking us anywhere. Luckly for Hill this is a much, much better Organization than years past and our D will be good!!! Cant wait for the season to start and see what happens.

...I will say I really like this Davis kid and what he has shown so far!!!!

[ Edited by 9erluv415 on Aug 30, 2009 at 22:35:47 ]
  • hopeforniners
  • Info N/A
Hill doesnt deserve to be the starter. He deserves to be the backup. But A.Smith shouldnt be the starter either. In fact, he should be cut. As of now, unfortunately, Huard should be the starter and hopefully next season, Davis or another QB should replace Huard.
Hill should simply be the backup - and potentially the 3rd qb next year.

Its sad, but our starting QB cant throw past 10 yards and even then they're wobbly and weak passes that lend themselves to be picked off.
I'm quite concerned that team will stack the line and we wont be able to get around that w/ wobbly and slow balls.
WOW this thread has gotten ridiculous.

it's not worth arguing with some in 9ertalk.
They will drag you down to their level,
and beat you with experience.

I think I'm done with this thread for the time being unless some reasonable replies are posted...

seeing that it's still preseason, it might take a couple of weeks before this happens...

for some who still have their sanity...leave while you still can

[ Edited by Afrikan on Aug 30, 2009 at 23:22:51 ]
Originally posted by Afrikan:
WOW this thread has gotten ridiculous. it's not worth arguing with some in 9ertalk. They will drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience. I think I'm done with this thread for the time being unless some reasonable replies are posted... seeing that it's still preseason, it might take a couple of weeks before this happens... for some who still have their sanity...leave while you still can


now you know how i felt along with other people arguing against the excuses argument for smith... and if an something is an excuse for one qb its an excuse for another qb. i WANT hill to play well. but he has a lot of convincing to do.