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Offensive post-game analysis (week 3)

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Who played RT for the 1st stringers? Did anyone stand out for the Oline? Did Boone play and if so how did he do?

Not sure who started at LT, think it was Sims. No one looked very good on the oline tonight, Boone played and did okay, got beat a time or two, but he is still raw.

..and that's including Coffee. He got lit up in blitz pickup.

-9fA
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
With all the blitzs Dallas was bring tonight, I thought our Oline did ok. Sure Hill's pocket was small, but he had time to throw. In fact, it's because of this game I started thinking maybe the problem is our receivers and not Hill, since there was plenty of time for him to get rid of the ball, but he didn't on a number of occasions.

Rachal has been inconsistent.

When Hill did have time to throw, his passes were off target, that could be on the receivers. These same arguments for why Hill shouldn't be judged so harshly didn't wash when they were applied to Smith, and this is a better team than Smith got to start on. All these asses that were/are so hard on Smith should realize the hypocrisy, Hill has looked every bit as pedestrian as Smith.
Quote:
--WR Jason Hill did not get into the game on offense until the final 11 minutes of the game. Hill played the remainder of the game but did not see one pass come his way.

from MM
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/08/singletary-no-such-thing-as-meaningless-game.html

why is he lying....there was a pass thrown Hills way....the one where he put a good move on the CB and caused a PI....and I'm sure there was another one....but either way.

its like there is a conspiracy against Jason Hill.
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Who played RT for the 1st stringers? Did anyone stand out for the Oline? Did Boone play and if so how did he do?

Not sure who started at LT, think it was Sims. No one looked very good on the oline tonight, Boone played and did okay, got beat a time or two, but he is still raw.

..and that's including Coffee. He got lit up in blitz pickup.

-9fA

Yeah man, he sure did whiff on a blitz pickup tonight, all in all though, he is pretty solid in the blocking aspect of his game, especially for being a rookie.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Quote:
--WR Jason Hill did not get into the game on offense until the final 11 minutes of the game. Hill played the remainder of the game but did not see one pass come his way.

from MM
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/08/singletary-no-such-thing-as-meaningless-game.html

why is he lying....there was a pass thrown Hills way....the one where he put a good move on the CB and caused a PI....and I'm sure there was another one....but either way.

its like there is a conspiracy against Jason Hill.

He must have blinked and missed it, it was a good play on Hill's behalf, I like the kid and think he is a lock to make the 53 man roster.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
With all the blitzs Dallas was bring tonight, I thought our Oline did ok. Sure Hill's pocket was small, but he had time to throw. In fact, it's because of this game I started thinking maybe the problem is our receivers and not Hill, since there was plenty of time for him to get rid of the ball, but he didn't on a number of occasions.

Rachal has been inconsistent.

When Hill did have time to throw, his passes were off target, that could be on the receivers. These same arguments for why Hill shouldn't be judged so harshly didn't wash when they were applied to Smith, and this is a better team than Smith got to start on. All these asses that were/are so hard on Smith should realize the hypocrisy, Hill has looked every bit as pedestrian as Smith.


I agree 100%. The fact that the 1st team O started in the 3rd Q and couldn't even get points on the board is embarrassing. I still think you have to give Hill the nod over Smith but only because of last season.
Just a side note on the QB's.

Singletary himself said that Smith would be a better option on "come from behind" games. This is obviously due to his arm strength advantage over Hill.

Shaun Hill looks good as a game manager, reading the defence, and not turning over the ball.

Nate Davis may have dyslexia but shows a high football IQ. He makes plays uncharacteristic of a rookie QB.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
With all the blitzs Dallas was bring tonight, I thought our Oline did ok. Sure Hill's pocket was small, but he had time to throw. In fact, it's because of this game I started thinking maybe the problem is our receivers and not Hill, since there was plenty of time for him to get rid of the ball, but he didn't on a number of occasions.

Rachal has been inconsistent.

When Hill did have time to throw, his passes were off target, that could be on the receivers. These same arguments for why Hill shouldn't be judged so harshly didn't wash when they were applied to Smith, and this is a better team than Smith got to start on. All these asses that were/are so hard on Smith should realize the hypocrisy, Hill has looked every bit as pedestrian as Smith.


I agree 100%. The fact that the 1st team O started in the 3rd Q and couldn't even get points on the board is embarrassing. I still think you have to give Hill the nod over Smith but only because of last season.

I agree but for a different reason, Smith is coming off a major injury and is likely still rusty from the long layoff. I think Smith was making progress and that our coaching staff is better equipped to groom a QB than at any time under Nolan. Hill just hasn't looked like the same guy as last year, and after three games I am worried that this is a trend and not an aberration.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I would just like to mention a couple of things about Nate Davis.

I keep reading how he was going against 3rd and 4th stringers and that's true, but that has nothing to do with what actually impressed me.

1. His accuracy and touch. Not only does he have a cannon arm, he has touch! Eric Davis talked about it all game. Eric Davis also was very impressed with one of the throws he made, saying "not many QBS in the NFL can make that pass." How many lame duck crap ass passes have we seen from Smith and Hill. Hill can barely get the ball down field with any volocity and Smith can barely hit the broad side of a barn.

2. Pocket Presence, Pocket Presence, Pocket Presence! Even when the pocket was collapsing he never seemed panicked. It's a trait that I see in other legit NFL QBs. And when the pressure finally gets to him, he doesn't always take off and run for his life, instead he steps up, to the side or moves ever so slightly while still looking down field to make a play. In contrast, from the moment Smith says hike he has happy feet and is bouncing around. Once pressure does get to him he way out runs his protection and his eyes turn to the easiest target on the field, the RB. A similar thing can be said about Hill.

I'm not saying Davis is ready to start, but I am saying based on what I've seen he has the raw intangables to develop into the kind of QB we need. How he isn't consider 3rd string material is beyond me. I would like to see him second string by end of season and possible fist next year.

I am with you on this kid.

I am seriously seeing enough to be very intrigued by this kid. When I stop and think about the fact that Hill and Smith got almost all of the reps in TC you wouldn't think that the rookie who got very very few reps would be looking so comfortable in the pocket and making such accurate passes. Forget that he is playing against scrubs for a moment and think just about the passes that he is making. I am not advocating starting him but the coaches need to accelerate teaching him this offense and maybe bring him along a little quicker. I don't think that they will be slipping him on the PS now.
I've read a lot of oversimplification here as to what our offensive problems are.

I would rather argue that it's not one, two or three things that's killing us on offense, but ALL of them:

Weak arm QB
+ Below average pass protection
+ Possession type receivers with no deep speed
+ 5 OC in five years

----------------------------------

= FAIL passing offense
Please pardon the long post I was at the game tonight which might bring a different perspective vs. TV.

Offensive Line
The OL did great when it came to the run however our pass protection was worse then pathetic. When we were man up they got beat, could not handle stunts, line over loads and Coffee needs to do some serious work on his blocking he whiffed twice which almost got Hill killed. As far as the run did a good job mauling and pushing guys back and creating holes. Boone had a rough night pass protecting but buried a few guys with his run blocking. What might save him is Marvel Smith retirement. Boone has the ability and heart he just needs time to develop. If he does he could be a mountain on the right side.

Tight Ends
Walker was open several times yet Hill did not throw to him did a decent job blocking made nice catch. Rest of our TE were quiet which in Raye offense concerns me.

WR
I need to eat crow Battle had a great game and is probably our #3 reciever. Bruce played 1 series and out, Morgan dropped one but over all ok had some nice blocks. Hill really messed up on Coffee run and looked totally lost and confused at times. Z was getting open along with Spurlock but due to pressure on are QB never had time to get the ball to them.

QB
The line has to give Hill more time I don’t care who is back there when your getting jail breaks on the QB your SOL. If he had been given .5 to a 1 second more on several occasions he would have had several big plays. He also had 3 dropped balls which can’t happen. Ware and Harris spent more time in our backfield then Gore it was ridiculous. Hill can put some mustard on the ball up to 25 yards after that he does these rainbow throws that scare the sh*t out of me.

Davis was amazing. His first drive was against 1-3 stringers he was composed, has that 6th sense on when to start moving or running, has a canon for an arm he made some passes with receptions that Hill could never attempt. Did a great job of looking off the safety and LB, handled the huddle very well and showed real leadership. Lot Cowboy fans were like who is this kid he is amazing? Can tell you right now he WILL NOT make it through waivers if we cut him.

RB
Gore, Coffee, Sheets were fantastic. The OL did a great job helping them but all 3 just needed a small seam and hit the hole no dancing, just hit the hole fast with pads down ready for contact was beautiful. All of them have great peripheral vision and were fantastic. Cowboy fans knew of Sheets since he played for Alabama but many of them were really impressed by Sheets especially how fast and strong he is. All 3 dished out punishment tonight. Miller at FB was ok could make it as a practice squad player. Can’t believe I am saying this but Robinson could have a problem making the team and yes I am taking into consideration his importance on special teams. Sheets is another player that if we try to waive will get picked up by someone. Miller at FB did a nice job couple good catches probably destined for the practice squad.

OC
Raye called a very conservative vanilla game. At one point I thought he was going to call a screen every down it was a joke. Still wondering on 3rd and 2 why he called a pass when we were getting 4-5 yards a carry even with the Defense loading up on us. He has to call more drag passes for VD, Walker no way a LB can keep up with those two. Can already see we will be a 65% run 35% medium to short pass team. If Raye calls more then one a pass play longer then 35 yard a game I will be in shock. Over all I was not real impressed with the play calling. We are going to have to be a team that is leading in the 4th Qtr because with this offense we are not designed to come from behind.
Originally posted by Bejaard49er:
Please pardon the long post I was at the game tonight which might bring a different perspective vs. TV.

Offensive Line
The OL did great when it came to the run however our pass protection was worse then pathetic. When we were man up they got beat, could not handle stunts, line over loads and Coffee needs to do some serious work on his blocking he whiffed twice which almost got Hill killed. As far as the run did a good job mauling and pushing guys back and creating holes. Boone had a rough night pass protecting but buried a few guys with his run blocking. What might save him is Marvel Smith retirement. Boone has the ability and heart he just needs time to develop. If he does he could be a mountain on the right side.

Tight Ends
Walker was open several times yet Hill did not throw to him did a decent job blocking made nice catch. Rest of our TE were quiet which in Raye offense concerns me.

WR
I need to eat crow Battle had a great game and is probably our #3 reciever. Bruce played 1 series and out, Morgan dropped one but over all ok had some nice blocks. Hill really messed up on Coffee run and looked totally lost and confused at times. Z was getting open along with Spurlock but due to pressure on are QB never had time to get the ball to them.

QB
The line has to give Hill more time I don’t care who is back there when your getting jail breaks on the QB your SOL. If he had been given .5 to a 1 second more on several occasions he would have had several big plays. He also had 3 dropped balls which can’t happen. Ware and Harris spent more time in our backfield then Gore it was ridiculous. Hill can put some mustard on the ball up to 25 yards after that he does these rainbow throws that scare the sh*t out of me.

Davis was amazing. His first drive was against 1-3 stringers he was composed, has that 6th sense on when to start moving or running, has a canon for an arm he made some passes with receptions that Hill could never attempt. Did a great job of looking off the safety and LB, handled the huddle very well and showed real leadership. Lot Cowboy fans were like who is this kid he is amazing? Can tell you right now he WILL NOT make it through waivers if we cut him.

RB
Gore, Coffee, Sheets were fantastic. The OL did a great job helping them but all 3 just needed a small seam and hit the hole no dancing, just hit the hole fast with pads down ready for contact was beautiful. All of them have great peripheral vision and were fantastic. Cowboy fans knew of Sheets since he played for Alabama but many of them were really impressed by Sheets especially how fast and strong he is. All 3 dished out punishment tonight. Miller at FB was ok could make it as a practice squad player. Can’t believe I am saying this but Robinson could have a problem making the team and yes I am taking into consideration his importance on special teams. Sheets is another player that if we try to waive will get picked up by someone. Miller at FB did a nice job couple good catches probably destined for the practice squad.

OC
Raye called a very conservative vanilla game. At one point I thought he was going to call a screen every down it was a joke. Still wondering on 3rd and 2 why he called a pass when we were getting 4-5 yards a carry even with the Defense loading up on us. He has to call more drag passes for VD, Walker no way a LB can keep up with those two. Can already see we will be a 65% run 35% medium to short pass team. If Raye calls more then one a pass play longer then 35 yard a game I will be in shock. Over all I was not real impressed with the play calling. We are going to have to be a team that is leading in the 4th Qtr because with this offense we are not designed to come from behind.

Our starting QB is not really very good at this, so Raye kinda has his hands tied on this one.

Nice post though, hope you enjoyed the disappointment of the cowgirls fans when they finally lost...how was the stadium by the way?
[ Edited by Memphis9er on Aug 29, 2009 at 11:47 PM ]
I really think robinson gets moved to backup fullback and third down f.b. Sheets is starting to prove he can run inside and has homerun potential every touch.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Quote:
--WR Jason Hill did not get into the game on offense until the final 11 minutes of the game. Hill played the remainder of the game but did not see one pass come his way.

from MM
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/08/singletary-no-such-thing-as-meaningless-game.html

why is he lying....there was a pass thrown Hills way....the one where he put a good move on the CB and caused a PI....and I'm sure there was another one....but either way.

its like there is a conspiracy against Jason Hill.

There is no conspiracy against Hill. Penalties (including PI) do not count as stats unless the penalty is declined.

His name is not even on the stat sheet...

-9fA
one words describes Shaun Hill and the 1st team in the 1st half............PATHETIC
WHICH MEANS ALL OF THE BELOW
1 : having a capacity to move one to either compassionate or contemptuous pity
2 : marked by sorrow or melancholy : sad
3 : pitifully inferior or inadequate