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Is Frank Gore overrated??

Is Frank Gore overrated??

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Originally posted by reasonable1:
Originally posted by wailers15:
Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
He's underrated.

Exactly. Frank Gore never gets mentioned on the NFL network or ESPN, anywhere. Very Underrated. Questioning his health right & left, he's been pretty money so far. Had his moments of the fumble fingers, but has godd hands out of the backfield. Kinda like Priest Holmes in his hay-days!



ESPN doesnt talk about anyone unless your name is Manning, Brady or T.O. and you either play in Dallas or have just won the superbowl...

Damn...I just gave away their whole NFL Live story lineup...

Sorry ESPN

Dammit i missed another espn were they talk about brady and manning, and t.o. man. Forget this im going to Disney land.


Actually have a couple recorded where they spoke bout alex smith, well that's 1 of em the other was niner related, but forget which it was? Bout a wk or so ago for both
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,931
Originally posted by reasonable1:
Originally posted by wailers15:
Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
He's underrated.

Exactly. Frank Gore never gets mentioned on the NFL network or ESPN, anywhere. Very Underrated. Questioning his health right & left, he's been pretty money so far. Had his moments of the fumble fingers, but has godd hands out of the backfield. Kinda like Priest Holmes in his hay-days!



ESPN doesnt talk about anyone unless your name is Manning, Brady or T.O. and you either play in Dallas or have just won the superbowl...

Damn...I just gave away their whole NFL Live story lineup...

Sorry ESPN

Chad Johnson, Brett Favre, Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall and Mike Vick.

But what exactly are they suppose to talk about in June? They do have the 32 teams in 32 days. Can't expect a national TV Outlet to cover the 9ers 24/7. We haven't exactly giving them much to talk about. Besides that, if they're talking about us in June then that means someone did something they weren't suppose to be doing.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by footballfreak49:
maybe i am on crack...but i would trade gore for stephen jackson straight up

Stephen Jackson is better no doubt. He is bigger and stronger and runs even harder. Also less inury history. And probably even a little faster. Sure I would trade him for Jackson.

i agree also. but i am very happy with gore.
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Frank ran more like Al Gore in 2008 than the Frank Gore of 2006. Unfortunately, he is probably on the down side of his career, and is surely falling below some of the younger guys in the league with fresh legs.

To me, the 2009 version of Gore is a middle of the road RB in the NFL. It is too bad. He's a great kid. But, playing RB is brutal in the NFL, and he doesn't have the same game as two years ago.

VERY OVERRATED BY THIS BOARD!!!

These are baseless assumptions. Lets revisit this when you actually have a chance to take a look at him when playing under comptitent coaching.

Back to back years of dropping productivity. There is nothing baseless about it. He's not the same player. Please look at the statistical numbers provided earlier in this thread.

Really, I wonder if larry and a healthy jonas, gore seemed fine. Larry retires. jonas often injured. Then loss of smiley 3 key oline guys in the run with larry and jonas straight and smiley pulling.

To what is considered the worst oline in the league because of the last 2 years just giving up sacks, even though it was mike martz system that helped that. You can clearly see are oline every season since gore got the 1600 got worse. Even at o cord. Even at fullback.

Run Blocking and Pass Blocking are 2 different things...you do know this right ?
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:

One note on the Martz offense: Many believe Gore's productivity dropped due to the Martz system. Statistically, this is negligible at best. Gore averaged 17.3 rushes/game in 2007, and 17.1 rushes in 2008. Even in 2006, when he ran like a mad man, he still averaged less than 20 carries/game, at 19.5. So, the issue is not opportunity, it is productivity.

Sorry, but you have to go deeper than the numbers. Martz typically ran out of single back sets and seldom called plays that matched Frank's strengths. Gore simply wasn't a good fit for a Martz offense, so its gross oversimplification to point at something like rushes/game as evidence it wasn't an issue of opportunities. The quality of those opportunties also has to come into consideration.

Gore had more rushes/game in 2006 and yet still yielded higher yds/rush. That's because he had a competent OC that played to his strengths. Not an incompetent OC (Hostler) or one that continuously tried to force square pegs into round holes (Martz).

Frank can still produce in this league if we use him right.

I say he's a top ten back, easy.

And what about 2007? Martz was not the coach, and Gore had an off year. He's simply not the same player. Sorry.

An elite back still posts big numbers, even in a less than stellar offense.

Gore was also injured and playing for a Hostler led offense that was quite a bit more than just "less than stellar". The OL, QB, WR positions were all in turmoil and defenses routinely stacked the box to stop Gore. Its a bit oversimplistic to say that any "elite" back would have put up "big numbers" in that offense imo.

Again, you have to go deeper than the numbers.
What a revelation! It turns out that Gore didn't do as well the last two years with Hostler in 07 and Martz in 08 than he did with Norv Turner! Now, that's really astute analysis there. And I suppose it's perfectly reasonable to expect that Gore will perform as he has the last two years even though the current OC will install a system more similar to Turner's, the last year Gore had better numbers.

This is a perfect example of why past performance statistics are not necessarily the only factor in a cogent prediction. I would expect Gore to perform more like he did in 06.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,931
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
What a revelation! It turns out that Gore didn't do as well the last two years with Hostler in 07 and Martz in 08 than he did with Norv Turner! Now, that's really astute analysis there. And I suppose it's perfectly reasonable to expect that Gore will perform as he has the last two years even though the current OC will install a system more similar to Turner's, the last year Gore had better numbers.

This is a perfect example of why past performance statistics are not necessarily the only factor in a cogent prediction. I would expect Gore to perform more like he did in 06.



For risk of a thread hijack. I'll keep my "dogma" to myself!
I've seen no Krizay dogma over Frank Gore. The only dogma I've seen coming from your direction is with regard to Vernon Davis and you've got a right to your opinion. My only point for the purpose of this conversation is that I would be more inclined to discount the last couple of years' worth of statistics on Gore and look more at how he did with Turner as a means of predicting how he will do this year. And as far as I'm concerned, no, he isn't overrated. That jump cut he has is the most exciting running back move I've seen on the Niners in quite a while.
you can't call someone who made it into the probowl overrated!
Improved OL play , a decent passing attack and Rathman as RB coach ------ Gore returns to old form and has another productive season.

He still breaks into the top ten in my estimation.

[ Edited by 49ERwhiner on Jun 29, 2009 at 15:57:17 ]
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
I've seen no Krizay dogma over Frank Gore. The only dogma I've seen coming from your direction is with regard to Vernon Davis and you've got a right to your opinion. My only point for the purpose of this conversation is that I would be more inclined to discount the last couple of years' worth of statistics on Gore and look more at how he did with Turner as a means of predicting how he will do this year. And as far as I'm concerned, no, he isn't overrated. That jump cut he has is the most exciting running back move I've seen on the Niners in quite a while.


Yeah that cut gore does is pretty badass and very effective for sure. Hopefully we see a lot more of his skills, with the addition of morran norris's return to the backfield we should also see a lot more 20 yard runs which we had seen in the past.
Gore is gonna own this season.!!!!!
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:

One note on the Martz offense: Many believe Gore's productivity dropped due to the Martz system. Statistically, this is negligible at best. Gore averaged 17.3 rushes/game in 2007, and 17.1 rushes in 2008. Even in 2006, when he ran like a mad man, he still averaged less than 20 carries/game, at 19.5. So, the issue is not opportunity, it is productivity.

Sorry, but you have to go deeper than the numbers. Martz typically ran out of single back sets and seldom called plays that matched Frank's strengths. Gore simply wasn't a good fit for a Martz offense, so its gross oversimplification to point at something like rushes/game as evidence it wasn't an issue of opportunities. The quality of those opportunties also has to come into consideration.

Gore had more rushes/game in 2006 and yet still yielded higher yds/rush. That's because he had a competent OC that played to his strengths. Not an incompetent OC (Hostler) or one that continuously tried to force square pegs into round holes (Martz).

Frank can still produce in this league if we use him right.

I say he's a top ten back, easy.

And what about 2007? Martz was not the coach, and Gore had an off year. He's simply not the same player. Sorry.

An elite back still posts big numbers, even in a less than stellar offense.

Gore was also injured and playing for a Hostler led offense that was quite a bit more than just "less than stellar". The OL, QB, WR positions were all in turmoil and defenses routinely stacked the box to stop Gore. Its a bit oversimplistic to say that any "elite" back would have put up "big numbers" in that offense imo.

Again, you have to go deeper than the numbers.

If you take an analysis of former NFL RB's who had a stellar season, then had repeated back-to-back less than stellar seasons, the chance of a repeat of a stellar season once again is very small. There are very few exceptions.

Once a RB begins to show patterns of dropped productivity, the vast majority continue that slide. I believe that Gore is in that slide. And, I believe the Niners feel the same way, since they used a 3rd rounder this season.

Gore is simply not the same back.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Jun 30, 2009 at 07:13:29 ]
I'm going to have to see him run with a system this year much like what he had in 2006. If he can't recreate his running in 2006 with Norris, this line and Raye's system, then I'll believe he's slipping, but not until I see it. I just think that when you look at the guy, you see someone who has overcome immense adversity - he's just the kind of player who could end up surprising you, MadDog.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:

One note on the Martz offense: Many believe Gore's productivity dropped due to the Martz system. Statistically, this is negligible at best. Gore averaged 17.3 rushes/game in 2007, and 17.1 rushes in 2008. Even in 2006, when he ran like a mad man, he still averaged less than 20 carries/game, at 19.5. So, the issue is not opportunity, it is productivity.

Sorry, but you have to go deeper than the numbers. Martz typically ran out of single back sets and seldom called plays that matched Frank's strengths. Gore simply wasn't a good fit for a Martz offense, so its gross oversimplification to point at something like rushes/game as evidence it wasn't an issue of opportunities. The quality of those opportunties also has to come into consideration.

Gore had more rushes/game in 2006 and yet still yielded higher yds/rush. That's because he had a competent OC that played to his strengths. Not an incompetent OC (Hostler) or one that continuously tried to force square pegs into round holes (Martz).

Frank can still produce in this league if we use him right.

I say he's a top ten back, easy.

And what about 2007? Martz was not the coach, and Gore had an off year. He's simply not the same player. Sorry.

An elite back still posts big numbers, even in a less than stellar offense.

Gore was also injured and playing for a Hostler led offense that was quite a bit more than just "less than stellar". The OL, QB, WR positions were all in turmoil and defenses routinely stacked the box to stop Gore. Its a bit oversimplistic to say that any "elite" back would have put up "big numbers" in that offense imo.

Again, you have to go deeper than the numbers.

If you take an analysis of former NFL RB's who had a stellar season, then had repeated back-to-back less than stellar seasons, the chance of a repeat of a stellar season once again is very small. There are very few exceptions.

Once a RB begins to show patterns of dropped productivity, the vast majority continue that slide. I believe that Gore is in that slide. And, I believe the Niners feel the same way, since they used a 3rd rounder this season.

Gore is simply not the same back.

Just watching Gore, I think he seemed more hesitant and ran with less power in 2007 & 2008. So, on the surface, its easy to say he's not the same back imo. But I think that's an oversimplification of what actually happened. I happen to believe that his confidence was shaken in 2007 and he was playing in a system he didn't fully grasp and didn't really fit in 2008.

Football isn't statistics. That's all I'm saying. I still see a player that can perform if the offense gets its sh*t together.
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Overkill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:

One note on the Martz offense: Many believe Gore's productivity dropped due to the Martz system. Statistically, this is negligible at best. Gore averaged 17.3 rushes/game in 2007, and 17.1 rushes in 2008. Even in 2006, when he ran like a mad man, he still averaged less than 20 carries/game, at 19.5. So, the issue is not opportunity, it is productivity.

Sorry, but you have to go deeper than the numbers. Martz typically ran out of single back sets and seldom called plays that matched Frank's strengths. Gore simply wasn't a good fit for a Martz offense, so its gross oversimplification to point at something like rushes/game as evidence it wasn't an issue of opportunities. The quality of those opportunties also has to come into consideration.

Gore had more rushes/game in 2006 and yet still yielded higher yds/rush. That's because he had a competent OC that played to his strengths. Not an incompetent OC (Hostler) or one that continuously tried to force square pegs into round holes (Martz).

Frank can still produce in this league if we use him right.

I say he's a top ten back, easy.

And what about 2007? Martz was not the coach, and Gore had an off year. He's simply not the same player. Sorry.

An elite back still posts big numbers, even in a less than stellar offense.

Gore was also injured and playing for a Hostler led offense that was quite a bit more than just "less than stellar". The OL, QB, WR positions were all in turmoil and defenses routinely stacked the box to stop Gore. Its a bit oversimplistic to say that any "elite" back would have put up "big numbers" in that offense imo.

Again, you have to go deeper than the numbers.

If you take an analysis of former NFL RB's who had a stellar season, then had repeated back-to-back less than stellar seasons, the chance of a repeat of a stellar season once again is very small. There are very few exceptions.

Once a RB begins to show patterns of dropped productivity, the vast majority continue that slide. I believe that Gore is in that slide. And, I believe the Niners feel the same way, since they used a 3rd rounder this season.

Gore is simply not the same back.

Just watching Gore, I think he seemed more hesitant and ran with less power in 2007 & 2008. So, on the surface, its easy to say he's not the same back imo. But I think that's an oversimplification of what actually happened. I happen to believe that his confidence was shaken in 2007 and he was playing in a system he didn't fully grasp and didn't really fit in 2008.

Football isn't statistics. That's all I'm saying. I still see a player that can perform if the offense gets its sh*t together.


Yeah I agree. This new system and line blocking sceme is much better for the success of running the ball. Throw in the fact that we have a huge frickin offensive line and the addition of marvel smith. And last but not least mr morran norris is back!