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Is Battle really worth a roster spot at this point?

Is Battle really worth a roster spot at this point?

The decision comes down to numbers. ith our run focused offense, it's unlikely we carry more than 5 WRs. Bruce, Jones, Morgan and Hill are locks. That leaves Battle, Ziegler and a rookie (assuming we draft a WR) to fight for the 5th spot and a spot on the practice squad. Morgan and Hill might not be better than Battle at the moment, but both have an upside that secure their roster spots.

If there were no rookie involved and we were choosing between Battle and Ziegler for the 5th spot, I think you go with Battle because of his special teams ability-- better to have a guy who can contribute than one who just rides the bench. Plus, Ziegler is more likely to accept a practice squad role.

Assuming there is a rookie WR chosen and he does show the ability to contribute (even if just on special teams initially), he's got to be given that 5th spot. In that case, I expect Battle would be moving on, because I can't see him accepting a practice squad role. Ziegler on the other hand ends up on the practice squad in either scenario, an injury away from a roster spot.
[ Edited by gravelburn on Apr 2, 2009 at 3:54 PM ]
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by Grigga2021:
How could anyone want Zeigler over Battle? That is just rediculous. If you think we are a better team with Zeigler then Battle then your crazy.

People don't know what Zeigler can bring to the table. Everyone knows what Battle brings, and it isn't much. I think people are tired of the mediocrity and would rather see what the young guys on the team can do instead of seeing the same irrelevant "production" from a guy like Battle. Battle has only had a few GOOD games since he was drafted. That's not good enough.

You don't think the coaching staff knows what Zeigler can contribute?

Anyone paying attention has seen his ability to contribute on the field. He's got some ability catching the ball, meaning he can make some catches in traffic. However, he's very thin, and doesn't appear to be a very good downfield blocker, and his ability to gain yards after the catch is questionable. He showed guts when they put him in at punt returner, but also made some bad mental mistakes, and showed little, if any promise there.

The coaching staff certainly knows what Battle brings to the table, and they know what Ziegler brings as well--and there's a reason Ziegler was only a PS player for the past two seasons and not on the active roster with Battle.

The coaching staff obviously didn't know what Shaun Hill brought to the table until he was given a chance on gameday. So no, the coaching staff does not know what Zeigler brings to the table ON GAMEDAY because he hasn't been given the chance to show them. They only know what he can do on the practice field, which means nothing at all on Sunday.

Ummmm sorry wrong answer. QB and WR are two VERY different animals when it comes to practice. A QB may not look good in practice but that doesn't exactly transfer to the field. Ala Shaun Hill. Though I still think that he looks no better on the field than Alex does. That's just my opinion.

WR however, should be able to run solid routes and catch the ball DURING practice more than ANY other time he wears his uniform. Because that is how he gets ON the field. If he is a lazy route runner in practice how in sam hell can he expect to get on the field and prove his worth? I bet Jerry would completely disagree with you also, given his KNOWN work ethic and how he approached the game.

So I would pose this question to you; If Jerry were a solid Vet who put the time in practice to work on his game and did it well, then Zeigler (by your account) got on the field over him(to see what he does) is that even right or fair? I think not.

~Ceadder
[ Edited by Ceadderman on Apr 2, 2009 at 3:09 PM ]
HE is a proven receiver which we don't have many of at this point. We have to keep him until we get somebody else who can make the clutch catch.
He is already signed through this season, and still better then some of these youngsters people want to have start ahead of him. If he was no good at all like some of the exxagerators here are claiming, he would probably already be gone.
Battle is nice.
Originally posted by gravelburn:
The decision comes down to numbers. ith our run focused offense, it's unlikely we carry more than 5 WRs. Bruce, Jones, Morgan and Hill are locks. That leaves Battle, Ziegler and a rookie (assuming we draft a WR) to fight for the 5th spot and a spot on the practice squad. Morgan and Hill might not be better than Battle at the moment, but both have an upside that secure their roster spots.

If there were no rookie involved and we were choosing between Battle and Ziegler for the 5th spot, I think you go with Battle because of his special teams ability-- better to have a guy who can contribute than one who just rides the bench. Plus, Ziegler is more likely to accept a practice squad role.

Assuming there is a rookie WR chosen and he does show the ability to contribute (even if just on special teams initially), he's got to be given that 5th spot. In that case, I expect Battle would be moving on, because I can't see him accepting a practice squad role. Ziegler on the other hand ends up on the practice squad in either scenario, an injury away from a roster spot.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that either Battle (a vet with several years experience on a game day roster) or Ziegler (2 yrs practice squad eligibility used up) is eligible for the practice squad any longer.

A rookie WR might end up there to start with, but neither Battle nor Ziegler will. Its make or break for both of them, and if the team's only going to keep 5 WRs, one of them will be looking for work.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by gravelburn:
The decision comes down to numbers. ith our run focused offense, it's unlikely we carry more than 5 WRs. Bruce, Jones, Morgan and Hill are locks. That leaves Battle, Ziegler and a rookie (assuming we draft a WR) to fight for the 5th spot and a spot on the practice squad. Morgan and Hill might not be better than Battle at the moment, but both have an upside that secure their roster spots.

If there were no rookie involved and we were choosing between Battle and Ziegler for the 5th spot, I think you go with Battle because of his special teams ability-- better to have a guy who can contribute than one who just rides the bench. Plus, Ziegler is more likely to accept a practice squad role.

Assuming there is a rookie WR chosen and he does show the ability to contribute (even if just on special teams initially), he's got to be given that 5th spot. In that case, I expect Battle would be moving on, because I can't see him accepting a practice squad role. Ziegler on the other hand ends up on the practice squad in either scenario, an injury away from a roster spot.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that either Battle (a vet with several years experience on a game day roster) or Ziegler (2 yrs practice squad eligibility used up) is eligible for the practice squad any longer.

A rookie WR might end up there to start with, but neither Battle nor Ziegler will. Its make or break for both of them, and if the team's only going to keep 5 WRs, one of them will be looking for work.

My mistake, you're right. So if we draft a receiver on day 1 and carry only 5 WRs, it's adios to both Battle and Ziegler.
Originally posted by gravelburn:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by gravelburn:
The decision comes down to numbers. ith our run focused offense, it's unlikely we carry more than 5 WRs. Bruce, Jones, Morgan and Hill are locks. That leaves Battle, Ziegler and a rookie (assuming we draft a WR) to fight for the 5th spot and a spot on the practice squad. Morgan and Hill might not be better than Battle at the moment, but both have an upside that secure their roster spots.

If there were no rookie involved and we were choosing between Battle and Ziegler for the 5th spot, I think you go with Battle because of his special teams ability-- better to have a guy who can contribute than one who just rides the bench. Plus, Ziegler is more likely to accept a practice squad role.

Assuming there is a rookie WR chosen and he does show the ability to contribute (even if just on special teams initially), he's got to be given that 5th spot. In that case, I expect Battle would be moving on, because I can't see him accepting a practice squad role. Ziegler on the other hand ends up on the practice squad in either scenario, an injury away from a roster spot.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that either Battle (a vet with several years experience on a game day roster) or Ziegler (2 yrs practice squad eligibility used up) is eligible for the practice squad any longer.

A rookie WR might end up there to start with, but neither Battle nor Ziegler will. Its make or break for both of them, and if the team's only going to keep 5 WRs, one of them will be looking for work.

My mistake, you're right. So if we draft a receiver on day 1 and carry only 5 WRs, it's adios to both Battle and Ziegler.

I think you're correct. It seems to me that a day 1 WR pick would be expected to make the 53 man roster, so yes, that would mean both Battle and Ziegler would be seeking work elsewhere.

Unless the rookie had an injury that landed him on IR or PS.
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Originally posted by NINERFORLIFE12:
I say trade him, we won't get much but something is better than nothing

I agree even if we got a sixth or seventh for him we could pick a morgan type player as a swap in the draft, bc of the depth at the position
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Gee, I could have sworn I saw him suited up, on the active roster, and playing on gameday last season.

I don't know if you are talking about Shaun Hill or Dominique Zeigler so I will address them both.

Zeigler was indeed on the active roster and you did see him on the field a few times, but not enough for them to actually know what he can do. He did not see the field enough to make a judgement. That goes for you, me and the coaching staff. None of us have seen enough of this guy to know whether or not he can be any good in games that count.

And Shaun Hill was on the field last season because they saw him in 2 games the season before AND because there was nobody else to put in there who would be any better. We saw JTO stink it up and Alex Smith was injured. Shaun Hill is clearly the best QB on the roster, but there really isn't anyone to challenge that. But before they had no other option but to go with Hill in 2007, they didn't know what they had because he never got the chance to show them. The same can be said about Zeigler.

Now, I'm not saying Zeigler is any good or should be ahead of Battle on the depth chart, all I'm saying is WE DON'T KNOW and a lot of people would like to find out.
[ Edited by 49erRider on Apr 2, 2009 at 8:07 PM ]
Member Milestone: This is post number 1,400 for 49erRider.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by Grigga2021:
How could anyone want Zeigler over Battle? That is just rediculous. If you think we are a better team with Zeigler then Battle then your crazy.

People don't know what Zeigler can bring to the table. Everyone knows what Battle brings, and it isn't much. I think people are tired of the mediocrity and would rather see what the young guys on the team can do instead of seeing the same irrelevant "production" from a guy like Battle. Battle has only had a few GOOD games since he was drafted. That's not good enough.

You don't think the coaching staff knows what Zeigler can contribute?

Anyone paying attention has seen his ability to contribute on the field. He's got some ability catching the ball, meaning he can make some catches in traffic. However, he's very thin, and doesn't appear to be a very good downfield blocker, and his ability to gain yards after the catch is questionable. He showed guts when they put him in at punt returner, but also made some bad mental mistakes, and showed little, if any promise there.

The coaching staff certainly knows what Battle brings to the table, and they know what Ziegler brings as well--and there's a reason Ziegler was only a PS player for the past two seasons and not on the active roster with Battle.

The coaching staff obviously didn't know what Shaun Hill brought to the table until he was given a chance on gameday. So no, the coaching staff does not know what Zeigler brings to the table ON GAMEDAY because he hasn't been given the chance to show them. They only know what he can do on the practice field, which means nothing at all on Sunday.

Ummmm sorry wrong answer. QB and WR are two VERY different animals when it comes to practice. A QB may not look good in practice but that doesn't exactly transfer to the field. Ala Shaun Hill. Though I still think that he looks no better on the field than Alex does. That's just my opinion.

WR however, should be able to run solid routes and catch the ball DURING practice more than ANY other time he wears his uniform. Because that is how he gets ON the field. If he is a lazy route runner in practice how in sam hell can he expect to get on the field and prove his worth? I bet Jerry would completely disagree with you also, given his KNOWN work ethic and how he approached the game.

So I would pose this question to you; If Jerry were a solid Vet who put the time in practice to work on his game and did it well, then Zeigler (by your account) got on the field over him(to see what he does) is that even right or fair? I think not.

~Ceadder

Have you ever SEEN Zeigler on the practice field? I have. He runs good routes and has hands as good as anyone on the team. Being good during practice does not automatically transfer onto the field anyway and the same is true for the opposite side of the argument. Taylor Jacobs was awsome in practice, yet he stunk it up on the field. Zeigler is not a bad practice player, anyway. I think it's his skinny frame that keeps him off the field, but that doesn't mean he can't handle the job if they give him the opportunity. They just THINK he can't do it, just like they THOUGHT Shaun Hill couldn't handle the QB position. Alex Smith looks better than anyone else on the team during practice, but he sucks ass on gameday. I know you love him and all, but it's the truth - and I was one of his biggest supporters. The point is you don't know what you have until you give them an opportunity to show you when it actually counts.

By the way, don't ever compare Jerry Rice to Arnaz Battle again. Would I want to sit the most productive WR in history to see what we have in Zeigler? NO! Would I want to sit a mediocre (AT BEST) WR who doesn't make much impact on a game (most of the time, there are a few games that he actually impacted) to see what we have in another player? YES! Try another comparison because that one is not even close.
Solid possession receiver when healthy. But that's not too often.
Stick a fork in him he is done.
At this point . . . in April? . . . of course. There are 17 open spots on the 80 man roster.

That being said, if we select a WR on day one of the draft, Battle is in trouble come September.
[ Edited by SonocoNinerFan on Apr 2, 2009 at 8:58 PM ]
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I voted Yes, but it wouldnt ruin my day if he was released

He may be our best blocking WR, and i like his yards after catch abilty
he could be usefull late in games coming in for Bruce at Flanker catching short passes and offering good run blocking.

But, I remember reading somthing Martz said about his route running, I dont have a link for it, but he kinda ripped on him for it, In another article I think they showed that more then half of O'Sullys picks were passes intended for Battle, which also brought up the route running/system learning problem that Battle seemed to be having.
Add the lingering knee Injury, and he drops down pretty far on the Depth Chart

So basicly im undecided, lol