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Coughlin may have accidentally unleashed a phenomenal strategy

Originally posted by andes14:
Oh really? This is a dumb idea? Why don't you tell that to the architect of the greatest defense in NFL history, Buddy Ryan, who did just that:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/07/league-not-commenting-on-possible-changes-to-12-men-penalty/

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/features/2011/nfl_2011/super_bowl/giants_patriots_super_bowl_did_new_york_put_12_men_on_the_field_on_purpose_for_brady_s_first_hail_mary_.html
Yeah it is a dumb idea and a p***y way to play the game, The NFL will have a new rule out next year for it, book it
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is not stupid. Buddy Ryan actually had a real play designed for this. I think the commissioner should look into stopping this loophole.


Originally posted by schmons:
pretty simple to beat this, if you see too many people on the field, spike the ball and take the 5 yards. 1 second off the clock max

Both teams resorting to this b******t is not good for the game
Originally posted by JimA49ers:
I can just imagine,,,,,starting on your own 20, and you spike it every play for the 5 yards all down the field. Within 12 seconds, you're on your opponents 20.

No, it would take the better part of 30 seconds - that's why it's a brilliant strategy for if there's no more than 25-30 seconds on the clock.
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is not stupid. Buddy Ryan actually had a real play designed for this. I think the commissioner should look into stopping this loophole.


Originally posted by schmons:
pretty simple to beat this, if you see too many people on the field, spike the ball and take the 5 yards. 1 second off the clock max

Both teams resorting to this b******t is not good for the game

Not arguing that, just arguing that logistically, it is a brilliant strategy.

As for being a p***y way of playing, you think coaches care? Coaches are evaluated and kept/fired based ENTIRELY on wins and losses. Not on avoiding gamesmanship or winning pretty. Taking a knee at the end of games is a p***y strategy technically, no? But it gives you the best chance to win. Taking advantage that a penalty doesn't harm you as much as the potential alternative can be smart. Is it a p***y way of playing if a cornerback deliberately commits a P.I. to save a touchdown because he got beat? No, it's smart.
[ Edited by andes14 on Feb 7, 2012 at 2:07 PM ]
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by JimA49ers:
I can just imagine,,,,,starting on your own 20, and you spike it every play for the 5 yards all down the field. Within 12 seconds, you're on your opponents 20.

No, it would take the better part of 30 seconds - that's why it's a brilliant strategy for if there's no more than 25-30 seconds on the clock.

The offense kneels the ball and takes the penalty, no more than 2 seconds off the clock to keep doing that, there is already a p***y strategy to beat that p***y strategy that you suggest.
Originally posted by valrod33:
The offense kneels the ball and takes the penalty, no more than 2 seconds off the clock to keep doing that, there is already a p***y strategy to beat that p***y strategy that you suggest.

That's even worse than spiking because the clock would still run lol
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by JimA49ers:
I can just imagine,,,,,starting on your own 20, and you spike it every play for the 5 yards all down the field. Within 12 seconds, you're on your opponents 20.

No, it would take the better part of 30 seconds - that's why it's a brilliant strategy for if there's no more than 25-30 seconds on the clock.

I was using the 1 second off the clock for 5 yards scenario. From your own 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25, 20 = 12 p***y plays, taking off 12 seconds.
Originally posted by JimA49ers:
I was using the 1 second off the clock for 5 yards scenario. From your own 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25, 20 = 12 p***y plays, taking off 12 seconds.

Never in NFL history has a play taken only 1 second off the clock. I'm telling you, spikes take a few ticks off each time. Next year pay attention to that, you'll see.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by valrod33:
The offense kneels the ball and takes the penalty, no more than 2 seconds off the clock to keep doing that, there is already a p***y strategy to beat that p***y strategy that you suggest.

That's even worse than spiking because the clock would still run lol

I meant to spike but even if you kneel The clock would stop when the refs called the penalty and wouldnt start until the ball was ready for play again. Either way this is all dumb and the NFL will have a rule next year to prevent this type of crap from happening
I get what your saying... but a team could just throw underneath right..?.. and same time get a timeout for a defensive penalty
Originally posted by valrod33:
I meant to spike but even if you kneel The clock would stop when the refs called the penalty and wouldnt start until the ball was ready for play again. Either way this is all dumb and the NFL will have a rule next year to prevent this type of crap from happening

Like I said though, if there's a small enough amount of time left, even spikes + 5 yard penalties work to the defense's advantage. And besides, if you did decide to "only" have 1 or 2 extra defenders in instead of a bunch, then you're forcing the QB to have to count the defensive players in a hurried pre-snap panic to determine if he should spike it or not....lol, the last thing a QB wants to do while in desperation mode is have to count each individual defender.

And you're right, the NFL may make a rule change, but the bottom line is, as the rule stands now with only being a 5 yard penalty no matter how many guys you have on the field, this loophole could have been a real nice strategy with the rules as they currently are. And even if they do make 2 extra guys a 10 yard penalty, 3 extra a 15 yard penalty, etc., I still think it would make sense for coaches to accept the 5 yard variety with just the 12th man on the field.

BTW, isn't intentionally fouling at the end of basketball games to stop the clock technically gamesmanship? If you're up 1 with 10 seconds left with the ball, the other team can just purposely do something against the rules (commit a foul) to their advantage, since even if both free throws are made, now you get the ball back with a chance to tie. Kinda a similar concept if you think about it...or intentionally committing a foul to prevent an easy lay up and instead sending the guy to the line...or hackashaq...technically all are gamesmanship because you are intentionally and strategically doing something against the rules. Committing a foul is against the rules, that's why there's a penalty for it, it just so happens that the penalty may be less detrimental than the potential alternative, just like in this football example.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
I get what your saying... but a team could just throw underneath right..?.. and same time get a timeout for a defensive penalty

Still to the defense's advantage if you're throwing underneath and using up precious seconds when there are only a few seconds left and you need a touchdown. Besides, assuming you get more than 5 yards on the underneath pass, the penalty wouldn't even be accepted and then it's irrelevant anyways.
[ Edited by andes14 on Feb 7, 2012 at 2:36 PM ]
facepalm-worthy thread is ...
they'll just start putting the time back on the clock.
Originally posted by vrabbit:
facepalm-worthy thread is ...

Guy who disregards a strategy employed by the architect of the greatest defense ever is ...