Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by ea_thegreat:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by ea_thegreat:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by ea_thegreat:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by ea_thegreat:
I don't think Ben will make it. Great player but he hasn't been the best in any year he has played. Heck, you can make a case that Rodgers and Rivers have played better than him since starting and all will continue to battle it out for the best in the league once brady and manning retire.
When Rivers or Rogers is even in one SB then talk to me. Until then Ben is clearly ahead of them in any HOF talk. The guy is the leader of a team that won 2 SBs and won an MVP. I almost think its a no brainer that he makes it in unless his career takes some crazy downturn.
I do agree that at this point he is ahead of them. I do believe Rodgers will be in a SB at some point in his career and could win it, heck he was close last year but like you said, until then i guess you are right that the SB appearances help. Also how do you know he is the leader of that team. You can easily make a case that Troy is the leader of that team since the defense is the backbone of that team and has been for a while.
The QB is the leader on the field. He was the one that made an incredible play to win the SB for them when all seemed lost. You dont have to be the leading stat guy to be in the HOF. Look at Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman as great examples of that. They were the leaders on teams that won multiple SuperBowls. Just like Ben.
He didn't make the play, Holmes did. No doubt ben helped but look at what holmes did in the final drive. He got the YAC and made the spectacular catch. Like i said, how do you know Big Ben is the leader of that team, do you have actual proof of that.
You are just sounding silly now by asking for proof for something like that. The QB is the leader on the field. Not the center, not the WR.... its the QB. Brady, Manning, Rogers, Ben, Brees... you name them. The great QBs are the leaders of those teams. I dont have to prove anything to you to know that.
As for Ben only "helping "... give me a break. Sure it was a great catch but it was a PERFECT throw put in the only place the ball could have gone for a completion. There are very few men alive that could have made that throw.
Im not talking about other teams, im talking about the steelers and big ben. You are saying he is the leader of that team while he may be the leader of the offense, there are many leaders on that team like Troy, farrior, and ward. They don't play QB but it doesn't mean they are not the leaders of the team. As for Ben making the play for them that is only part true like i said, you said he made the play for them to win the SB but that play doesn't happen without Holmes first catching a 10 yard pass and making it an 20+ yard gain after the catch. Then, like you said, only a few QB's can make that throw, however even fewer WR's can make that catch and hold on to it. Holmes made that incredible play to win it for the steelers. He doesn't make that catch and who knows what happens. Also were are you getting that he won an MVP.
I was wrong about Ben winning MVP of the SB. I thought he had won it one of the two times the Steelers won it all. That really is irrelevant though on whether he will get to the HOF. He has won 2 SB's in the early stage of his career. How many QB's have ever played in the league that won 2 SB's and considered a star that didnt make the Hall?
I am not talking about in the locker room. I am talking about on the field. He is the leader on the field as really all QB's are. It is the most difficult position, the most important position, and the one that generally decides who wins.
Ben made the throw to win the SB. Is that better for you? Just like Joe Montana made a great throw to win SB 23 with all the pressure on the line, Ben did the same thing. He made an incredible play ( or throw if you prefer) in the ultimate moment. The catch was incredible - the throw was even more amazing.
But the field is broken up into 3 areas in which the offense, defense and special teams all have their leaders. Ben is no doubt the leader of that offense but just like he is the leader of the offense, Troy is the leader of that defense. You said he was the leader of the team on the field but that is only half true. I do think we both were unclear on our points. I think you meant he us the leader of that offense to be more specific than team and i was and i thought you were talking about the whole team.