Nate Davis thread

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Who ever thinks that Nate Davis is ready are idiots.

These people are making their assessments based on a small sample of plays he made AGAINST PLAYERS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN NFL ROSTERS!

He may have talent, but he is far from ready. Let him sit one more year under Alex Smith and get used to the offense and then start him on his 3rd or 4th year. By then he should be ready and there will be no more excuses.

To me it wasn't who he was playing but the way he handled himself. It was the laser throws on the comebacks. But i agree, i would like him to come in ready like Phillip Rivers did. It's just hard watching the mediocre QB play of Smith.

If Davis had the game Smith did against the Lions i would have been very disappointed

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Who ever thinks that Nate Davis is ready are idiots.

These people are making their assessments based on a small sample of plays he made AGAINST PLAYERS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN NFL ROSTERS!

He may have talent, but he is far from ready. Let him sit one more year under Alex Smith and get used to the offense and then start him on his 3rd or 4th year. By then he should be ready and there will be no more excuses.

To me it wasn't who he was playing but the way he handled himself. It was the laser throws on the comebacks. But i agree, i would like him to come in ready like Phillip Rivers did. It's just hard watching the mediocre QB play of Smith.

If Davis had the game Smith did against the Lions i would have been very disappointed

really?!?

20 out of 31, 230yds 1TD and no picks

I would be stoked if Nate davis had a game like that....

I would be to if I hadn't watched the game.

The stats were inflated by dump offs to gore. And there were many poor passes, not just the under throw to crabs that should have been a TD. Disappointing game when we had 6 turnovers and scored 20 pts. The only good thing is he didnt lose us the game

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Who ever thinks that Nate Davis is ready are idiots.

These people are making their assessments based on a small sample of plays he made AGAINST PLAYERS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN NFL ROSTERS!

He may have talent, but he is far from ready. Let him sit one more year under Alex Smith and get used to the offense and then start him on his 3rd or 4th year. By then he should be ready and there will be no more excuses.

To me it wasn't who he was playing but the way he handled himself. It was the laser throws on the comebacks. But i agree, i would like him to come in ready like Phillip Rivers did. It's just hard watching the mediocre QB play of Smith.

If Davis had the game Smith did against the Lions i would have been very disappointed

really?!?

20 out of 31, 230yds 1TD and no picks

I would be stoked if Nate davis had a game like that....

That 1TD was pure luck, he should have just barreled his way in.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by excelsior:
So many of you live in a fantasy world, and create a false reality in your mind. Because Alex is our current QB, you see his good plays and his bad ones. Since you are biased, you focus on his bad ones and ignore or trivialize his good ones.

In the case of Nate, you have created this fabulous QB in your mind. But translating talent into consistent results against strong opponents in regular season games is an entirely different story. Observe how few promising QBs make it big in the NFL. Look at all the highly-acclaimed, high-draft choice QBs that came out of college the last few years, and look at how few have performed anyway near what one might have expected.

Remember how many of you had annointed JTO as our savior? We saw how that turned out. Then you jumped on Hill, and that false dream fell apart. Smith started out encouraging, but after awhile opponents found schemes to take advantage of our weaknesses.

Odds are heavy that Nate would be no different. He has weakness, no doubt, and opponents would exploit them. Eventually, you would be looking for another savior.

It's not a fantasy world or delusion to want Nate Davis to get a shot at starting. He's a relatively unknown quantity in regards to how he handles regular season play, but he has shown that he possess the skills and instincts that both Hill and Smith lack.

This is agreed upon not by delusional fans, but by the coaching staff and professional sports writers.

In Alex Smith we have a known quantity and the fans have seen 2 decades of great QB play to recognize a subpar bum when they see one.

What's delusional is expecting Alex Smith to be something he isn't if you give him more time and more talented supporting cast.

I don't understand what he has shown for anyone to believe that he'll be an elite QB let alone a midlevel QB.

Honestly, let's not compare him to the Hall of Famers, let's compare him to the journeymen QBs that have had a few good years but flamed out.

His career doesn't even compare to Brad Johnson's (2 Pro Bowls 1 SB win), Jeff Garcia's (3 Pro Bowls 3 playoff appearances), Jim Everett's (1 Pro Bowl 2 playoff appearances), Chris Chandler's (2 Pro Bowls 1 SB Loss), Jim Harbaugh's (1 Pro Bowl 3 playoff appearances), Stan Humphries '(1 SB Loss), Pete Wilson's (1 Pro Bowl 3 playoff appearances), and numerous other NFL QB journeymen.

No what's delusional is sticking with Alex Smith and expecting the team to be a legit contender.

So your argument is that a 25 year old qb has not achieved as much as a bunch of retired qb's achieved during their entire careers?

I struggle to find a word to describe this "logic". Lame doesn't go anywhere near far enough.

You call other people's arguments "delusional"? Let's inject a few facts into your argument:

Quarterbacks take time to develop.

Alex Smith is 25 years old

Brad Johnson was 31 when he made his 1st Pro Bowl appearance and 35 when he made the SuperBowl.

Jeff Garcia was 30 when he made his 1st Pro Bowl appearance.

Jim Everett was 28 when he went to the Pro Bowl

Chris Chandler was 32 when he went to the Pro Bowl and 33 when he went to the SuperBowl

Jim Harbagh was 32 when he went to the Pro Bowl

Stan Humphries was 27 when he went to the playoffs and 29 the SuperBowl

I have no idea who Pete Wilson is. Perhaps you could enlighten me. Meantime Wade Wilson, in case you were mistaking them, went to the Pro Bowl when he was 29.

Most journeyman qb's go to the SuperBowl when they are leading a great team. That is how they get there. So comparing the performance of these teams with ours is flawed, to be polite.

The argument is that as the #1 overall pick Alex Smith's career should reflect that of a successful franchise QB, not that of a journeymen.

He should have immediately shown the ability to read defenses from under center. The ability to keep drives alive by running for 1st downs, perform under pressure, and lead the team to tough victories.

At this point his supporters are hoping that he'll get more time to develop and have a brief run of success like the journeymen quarterbacks mentioned. Such a brief run of success usually results in a SB loss. In the rare cases of Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostler, Trent Dilfer & Brad Johnson, it's a 1 win deal without any other years of serious contention.

With the quality of QBs in the league today and the talent that surrounds them, Alex Smith isn't going to win the SB. When your drafted #1 overall that is the expectation.

So rather than have the Niners go through their Neil O'Donnell phase, the team needs to move on to the next option at QB. Smith will most likely get pulled by the 4th game if the team isn't winning or the offense is lagging behind the defense.

As for my use of the term delusional, I was responding to the previous posters claim that Nate Davis supporters live in a fantasy world and are delusional.
Unfortunately an argument or opinion is legitimately delusional if it is resistant to fact, reason, or proof.

I believe in and try to practice respecting the opinion of other posters and challenging their arguments without vitriol, condescension or smugness.

However, in the face of the fact that Alex Smith has not performing up to the standards of his profession, to support his status as the starter and to expect to be a contender is delusional.

Your going to have to present evidence and facts that prove otherwise.

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Who ever thinks that Nate Davis is ready are idiots.

These people are making their assessments based on a small sample of plays he made AGAINST PLAYERS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN NFL ROSTERS!

He may have talent, but he is far from ready. Let him sit one more year under Alex Smith and get used to the offense and then start him on his 3rd or 4th year. By then he should be ready and there will be no more excuses.

To me it wasn't who he was playing but the way he handled himself. It was the laser throws on the comebacks. But i agree, i would like him to come in ready like Phillip Rivers did. It's just hard watching the mediocre QB play of Smith.

If Davis had the game Smith did against the Lions i would have been very disappointed

really?!?

20 out of 31, 230yds 1TD and no picks

I would be stoked if Nate davis had a game like that....

I would be to if I hadn't watched the game.

Then there is this from Maiocco http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/12/no-points-off-six-turnovers-isnt-acceptable-singletary-says.html

11-Alex Smith: Started at QB, and his statistical line looked a lot better than the game itself. He completed 20 of 31 passes for 230 yards with one touchdown. . . . Put the ball out there for Michael Crabtree on a 50-yard pass. If he'd led him a little more it probably would've been a TD. . . . . Missed Delanie Walker, being covered by a linebacker in the end zone, on a post pattern after the Crabtree pass. . . . Kept his eyes downfield when he stepped up in the second quarter, he completed a pass to Vernon Davis for 14 yards. But had the pass been better, it could've gone for a much-bigger gain

Same inaccurate check-down qb we drafted.

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Who ever thinks that Nate Davis is ready are idiots.

These people are making their assessments based on a small sample of plays he made AGAINST PLAYERS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN NFL ROSTERS!

He may have talent, but he is far from ready. Let him sit one more year under Alex Smith and get used to the offense and then start him on his 3rd or 4th year. By then he should be ready and there will be no more excuses.

To me it wasn't who he was playing but the way he handled himself. It was the laser throws on the comebacks. But i agree, i would like him to come in ready like Phillip Rivers did. It's just hard watching the mediocre QB play of Smith.

If Davis had the game Smith did against the Lions i would have been very disappointed

really?!?

20 out of 31, 230yds 1TD and no picks

I would be stoked if Nate davis had a game like that....

I would be to if I hadn't watched the game.

The stats were inflated by dump offs to gore. And there were many poor passes, not just the under throw to crabs that should have been a TD. Disappointing game when we had 6 turnovers and scored 20 pts. The only good thing is he didnt lose us the game

Then lets take away all the yards Brees gets with dump offs to Thomas/Bell/Bush.

The ones that Rivers has with LT and Sproles.

Manning with Addai and Brown.

I could go on. Every QB gets stats padded with RB's that can catch out of the backfield

Originally posted by prime21:

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Who ever thinks that Nate Davis is ready are idiots.

These people are making their assessments based on a small sample of plays he made AGAINST PLAYERS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN NFL ROSTERS!

He may have talent, but he is far from ready. Let him sit one more year under Alex Smith and get used to the offense and then start him on his 3rd or 4th year. By then he should be ready and there will be no more excuses.

To me it wasn't who he was playing but the way he handled himself. It was the laser throws on the comebacks. But i agree, i would like him to come in ready like Phillip Rivers did. It's just hard watching the mediocre QB play of Smith.

If Davis had the game Smith did against the Lions i would have been very disappointed

really?!?

20 out of 31, 230yds 1TD and no picks

I would be stoked if Nate davis had a game like that....

That 1TD was pure luck, he should have just barreled his way in.

One point I haven't seen raised is there was a DET player that was on a B-line toward Smith had Smith continued to run. I believe that Smith would of beaten him to the pilon but he would of taken a HUGE hit, the type Goldson has been laying on folks the past couple weeks.

IMO Smith was avoiding a huge hit on that play, not trying to pad Davis's stats or make the play harder then it needed to be.

Enough Alex Smith in the Davis thread
He would have done better if it weren't for his O-line

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Who ever thinks that Nate Davis is ready are idiots.

These people are making their assessments based on a small sample of plays he made AGAINST PLAYERS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN NFL ROSTERS!

He may have talent, but he is far from ready. Let him sit one more year under Alex Smith and get used to the offense and then start him on his 3rd or 4th year. By then he should be ready and there will be no more excuses.

To me it wasn't who he was playing but the way he handled himself. It was the laser throws on the comebacks. But i agree, i would like him to come in ready like Phillip Rivers did. It's just hard watching the mediocre QB play of Smith.

If Davis had the game Smith did against the Lions i would have been very disappointed

really?!?

20 out of 31, 230yds 1TD and no picks

I would be stoked if Nate davis had a game like that....

I would be to if I hadn't watched the game.

The stats were inflated by dump offs to gore. And there were many poor passes, not just the under throw to crabs that should have been a TD. Disappointing game when we had 6 turnovers and scored 20 pts. The only good thing is he didnt lose us the game

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

Originally posted by phatbutskinny:

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by excelsior:
So many of you live in a fantasy world, and create a false reality in your mind. Because Alex is our current QB, you see his good plays and his bad ones. Since you are biased, you focus on his bad ones and ignore or trivialize his good ones.

In the case of Nate, you have created this fabulous QB in your mind. But translating talent into consistent results against strong opponents in regular season games is an entirely different story. Observe how few promising QBs make it big in the NFL. Look at all the highly-acclaimed, high-draft choice QBs that came out of college the last few years, and look at how few have performed anyway near what one might have expected.

Remember how many of you had annointed JTO as our savior? We saw how that turned out. Then you jumped on Hill, and that false dream fell apart. Smith started out encouraging, but after awhile opponents found schemes to take advantage of our weaknesses.

Odds are heavy that Nate would be no different. He has weakness, no doubt, and opponents would exploit them. Eventually, you would be looking for another savior.

It's not a fantasy world or delusion to want Nate Davis to get a shot at starting. He's a relatively unknown quantity in regards to how he handles regular season play, but he has shown that he possess the skills and instincts that both Hill and Smith lack.

...based SOLELY on preseason and college play.

has alex smith even shown those skills in preseason?

This.

has nate davis started a preseason game? no i mean he's not going to get his chance until next year why cant some people just accept he's not going to play for a while

Because we live in a fantasy world, where mental projections for a player match reality in people's minds.

The problem: These projections where Davis is going to simply jump into the game, and light it up, as if he's been in a specific system for a long time, used to playing at NFL speed, and used to diagnosing complex defenses, is completely unrealistic, and almost laughable. These same people act as if the NFL is like playing Central Michigan or Bowling Green. It is not.

Davis is not ready, not close to being ready, is not in the universe in being ready. However, for some, he will simply step onto the field like a 5-year vet, reading complex defenses, understanding the speed of the game, having perfect timing with their receivers (the same ones they have not thrown to in about 4 months) etc. No wishful thinking is going to make them a star, but wishful thinking dominates the highly irrational people day and night.

Hence, Fantasyland.

Reading complex NFL defenses, practice reps with the receivers, understanding the system you are under, having a timing clock in your head when you want to throw, working with a new playclock, and playing before crowds of more than 30,000 fans is vastly overrated. Just go in the game, and start throwing the ball around. Just throw it anywhere. Everything will be OK.

P.S. This is the same Nate Davis (I haven't even begun with his learning disability) that, in his two last starts, in pressure-packed games, fumbled the ball about 500 times (the actual number is 8) against the NFL juggernauts, ready.....University of Buffalo and ....drumroll, University of Tulsa. This is the Davis that is ready to take over???

Some people need to splash some water on their faces.

agreed

No, the NFL is not like playing Central Michigan or Bowling Green, and nobody ever said that was the case. But then again, Ben Roethlisberger played in the same college conference, and is ranked a whopping 1 spot higher than Nate Davis in career TDs in that conference. Nobody thought he was ready his rookie year either. I don’t think anyone here believes that he is just going to step in there and light it up. Hell, Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions his rookie year, and I think he turned out ok. What folks are saying is that they are convinced that Hill and Smith are not going to ever be significantly better than they are right now, and what they are right now is mediocre. Folks are saying that they believe Davis has more raw talent/skills than Hill or Smith, and that he very well could be a damn fine quarterback for the Niners. And because of the combination of those things why not allow him some practice reps in the off season and why not allow him to compete with Hill and Smith for the #1 position next year?

I don’t think seeing him play in the last game this year would really mean anything either. But I also don’t see the logic behind not even allowing a QB competition because you want to make sure your mediocre QB and the guy who lost the starting job to the mediocre quarterback are getting all the reps for continuity’s sake. The continuity of seven 12 win seasons in a row like the Colts is the continuity we want, not the continuity of an 8 or 9 win season. Sure, he may not do any better than Alex Smith next year, but if he can perform at close to the same level, with less experience reading complex defenses, less time playing at NFL speed, less time to develop relationships with the receivers, then why the hell not play him? Why the hell not at least let there be a competition? Fact is, Smith isn’t lighting it up, hasn’t been, and may not ever. He looked mediocre against the Lions for crying out loud. So why not allow Nate Davis to compete for a starting job with Smith next year?

Reality is that he will not likely jump in and be the savior from the start, but he just might play as well as the other two. Not allowing him to compete for the starting job next season is just foolishness. It would be different if either Smith or Hill did something this season to indicate that they are definitely going to be able to play the position at a high level. But they haven’t. And you all don’t even want to take a look at another QB on the roster to see what he can do? Wow…just wow.

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:
Enough Alex Smith in the Davis thread
He would have done better if it weren't for his O-line

The Alex Smith and Shaun Hill supporters are well aware that this video exists.

In it Nate Davis makes across the body throws that either Hill or Smith can't make, he has accuracy and touch on short passes, either moves or steps up in the pocket to elude rushers and create passing lanes, doesn't flinch and takes the hit while completing passes.

It doesn't matter what level of competition he was facing, he looked poise and clearly possess the natural ability to be a successful QB.

The argument that Smith should continue to start all of next season as opposed to to eventually starting Nate Davis, is one of meritocracy versus aristocracy.

Do you go with the player who has shown the natural ability to succeed or the player who was drafted #1 overall but hasn't performed well?

Originally posted by domesik:

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
Who ever thinks that Nate Davis is ready are idiots.

These people are making their assessments based on a small sample of plays he made AGAINST PLAYERS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN NFL ROSTERS!

He may have talent, but he is far from ready. Let him sit one more year under Alex Smith and get used to the offense and then start him on his 3rd or 4th year. By then he should be ready and there will be no more excuses.

To me it wasn't who he was playing but the way he handled himself. It was the laser throws on the comebacks. But i agree, i would like him to come in ready like Phillip Rivers did. It's just hard watching the mediocre QB play of Smith.

If Davis had the game Smith did against the Lions i would have been very disappointed

really?!?

20 out of 31, 230yds 1TD and no picks

I would be stoked if Nate davis had a game like that....

I would be to if I hadn't watched the game.

The stats were inflated by dump offs to gore. And there were many poor passes, not just the under throw to crabs that should have been a TD. Disappointing game when we had 6 turnovers and scored 20 pts. The only good thing is he didnt lose us the game

Then lets take away all the yards Brees gets with dump offs to Thomas/Bell/Bush.

The ones that Rivers has with LT and Sproles.

Manning with Addai and Brown.

I could go on. Every QB gets stats padded with RB's that can catch out of the backfield

Do you really want to compare those qbs to Smith?
My point was without 4 dumpoffs to gore smith had 150 yds with a 5.5 avg per attempt.
This actually was statistically smiths best game 97 qb rating. Which is under the average rating against the lions lately which was around 107 i believe.

Originally posted by LeadFarmer:
Enough Alex Smith in the Davis thread
He would have done better if it weren't for his O-line

Must be that funky new math, but that looks like a hell of a lot more than just six plays. I thought he only knew six plays??!!

maybe i am talking outta my ass here. i will say that i am a smith fan and supporter-but not a blind one. i am also a fan of davis.

now, the one thing i notice about davis (in that highlight video) is this: he gets the balls to his receivers REGARDLESS of whether the route was ran clean or not. impressive. he sees an open man, he gets the ball there. the most important part is that it doesn't matter if this was against scrubs or not. in game situations and as fast as everything is moving all around him, he got the ball out-and with decent accuracy and velocity. not quite in stride with the WR all the time, but good enough.

smith does not do that. it seems as if smith throws to the spot he BELIEVES the receiver should be in (based on design of a play) and DOES NOT ADJUST his throws to where the receiver actually is-due to maybe a jam at the line of just traffic or whatever.

even on simple screens, smith is off target. that should be a simple dump off. in the davis highlight video, he made clean smooth passses on thoses simple screens to sheets and coffee.

with all this said, i still want smith as a starter and davis sitting behind him to learn.

Clearly Davis isn't ready to be an NFL QB, but it's also clear that he has excellent poise in the pocket and shows a strong/accurate arm. I was more consistently impressed with him during the preseason than anything I've ever seen from Alex Smith (who has all the athletic skills you want in a QB, but doesn't have a natural feel for the role).

Now, that alone doesn't mean Davis will be a great QB, and comparing him to Smith based on a few preseason games isn't saying much at all. However, you can see his natural feel for the position, and I'm excited to see what he can do next year during preseason.