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Who got the better end of the JAY CUTLER trade?

Who got the better end of the JAY CUTLER trade?

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
You guys crack me up.....

There have been all this hammer throwing about how the Bears have no WRs but we don't either but if you ask most on this board we are CERTAINLY going to play-offs this season.

So how is it that the Bears with a better defense, a better QB, a better OL and a similar WRs and a bit less RB and playing in a WEAKER division WONT make the play-offs?

LOL!!


It just cracks me up.

WR
Bears
Devin Hester 51 665 13.0 65 3
Rashied Davis 35 445 12.7 36 2
Brandon Lloyd 26 364 14.0 32 2
Marty Booker 14 211 15.1 51 2
Total WR 126 1685 13.37 65 9


49ers
Isaac Bruce 61 835 13.7 63 7
Brandon Jones* 41 449 11.0 40 1
Josh Morgan 20 319 16.0 48 3
Arnaz Battle 24 318 13.3 36 0
Jason Hill 30 317 10.6 33 2
Dominique Zeigler 5 97 19.4 31 0
Total WR 181 2335 12.90 63 13

Defense
NAME YDS YPG RUSH RUSH-YPG PASS PASS-YPG PTS PTS/G
Bears 5355 334.7 1496 93.5 3859 241.2 350 21.9
49ers 5216 326.0 1709 106.8 3507 219.2 381 23.8

RB
NAME ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
Matt Forte 316 1238 3.9 50 8
Frank Gore 240 1036 4.3 41 6

NAME REC YDS AVG LNG TD
Matt Forte 63 477 7.6 19 4
Frank Gore 43 373 8.7 26 2

OL
its hard to really measure or evaluate against OL especially with JTO and his crappy QB vision
49ers 55 sacks (32 JTO)
Bears 29 sacks

Division
NFC North 25 Wins
NFC West 22 Wins


Kyle Orton is not Shuan Hill -

The only thing this proves is that Hill isn't the QB moron that we already knew Orton and Grossman are.

The x-factor here is Cutler. Let's see how well these receivers do with Cutler.

This ain't Madden bro.

Also, you're going to compare a Martz offense to a Bears offense that was run-focused?

Talk about apples and oranges. These stats are totally inapplicable.

Orton isn't that bad... he'll end up tossing prolly 20 TDs for the Broncos and im sure they will take that and their 3 draft picks...

Okay - you've lost ALL CREDIBILITY.....

Orton isn't that bad???????? Dude I can't even argue with you anymore.

Dude he had 18 tds, 12 INTs, no WRs, a crappy D, and almost 3k yards in 14 games. He is way better than you give him credit for, and the QB in Chicago wasn't the problem. Their problem was their lack of playmakers besides Forte.
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
You guys crack me up.....

There have been all this hammer throwing about how the Bears have no WRs but we don't either but if you ask most on this board we are CERTAINLY going to play-offs this season.

So how is it that the Bears with a better defense, a better QB, a better OL and a similar WRs and a bit less RB and playing in a WEAKER division WONT make the play-offs?

LOL!!


It just cracks me up.

WR
Bears
Devin Hester 51 665 13.0 65 3
Rashied Davis 35 445 12.7 36 2
Brandon Lloyd 26 364 14.0 32 2
Marty Booker 14 211 15.1 51 2
Total WR 126 1685 13.37 65 9


49ers
Isaac Bruce 61 835 13.7 63 7
Brandon Jones* 41 449 11.0 40 1
Josh Morgan 20 319 16.0 48 3
Arnaz Battle 24 318 13.3 36 0
Jason Hill 30 317 10.6 33 2
Dominique Zeigler 5 97 19.4 31 0
Total WR 181 2335 12.90 63 13

Defense
NAME YDS YPG RUSH RUSH-YPG PASS PASS-YPG PTS PTS/G
Bears 5355 334.7 1496 93.5 3859 241.2 350 21.9
49ers 5216 326.0 1709 106.8 3507 219.2 381 23.8

RB
NAME ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
Matt Forte 316 1238 3.9 50 8
Frank Gore 240 1036 4.3 41 6

NAME REC YDS AVG LNG TD
Matt Forte 63 477 7.6 19 4
Frank Gore 43 373 8.7 26 2

OL
its hard to really measure or evaluate against OL especially with JTO and his crappy QB vision
49ers 55 sacks (32 JTO)
Bears 29 sacks

Division
NFC North 25 Wins
NFC West 22 Wins


Kyle Orton is not Shuan Hill -

The only thing this proves is that Hill isn't the QB moron that we already knew Orton and Grossman are.

The x-factor here is Cutler. Let's see how well these receivers do with Cutler.

This ain't Madden bro.

Also, you're going to compare a Martz offense to a Bears offense that was run-focused?

Talk about apples and oranges. These stats are totally inapplicable.

Orton isn't that bad... he'll end up tossing prolly 20 TDs for the Broncos and im sure they will take that and their 3 draft picks...

Okay - you've lost ALL CREDIBILITY.....

Orton isn't that bad???????? Dude I can't even argue with you anymore.

Well when Orton does well with the Broncos then you could come here and be like... well... Orton can't throw 40 TDs in a season!!...

OK Miss Cleo.

Orton might not even start.
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by dhp318:
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by crzy:
Denver didn't win this trade.

They traded a franchise quarterback for two players who theoretically could be good players.

Bears won easily.

Great. Cutler instead of throwing 18 INTs in Denver... He can throw 30 INTs in Chicago. Great Pick up!!!

So many people talk backwards out of their asses. First, Denver had no running game, so they couldn't pound the rock. 2nd, they had a s**t ass defense, so they were often playing from behind. Therefore, when you have to air it out all the time, you're going to get picked, especially when you have to force throws. If you don't have play action or any sort of running game opponents expect, you will have to make questionable throws. Still, the throws he's made were just incredible.

I say the Bears got the better end of the deal. Kyle Orton is gonna start to hurt real bad when he has to play from behind all the time and air it out. Of course, I think the Broncos will be drafting a RB at some point to help carry the load...

Denver was 12th in rushing
Bears were 24th in rushing
49ers were 27th in rushing

While I agree their Defense was not as good as it was in prior years, I will argue that the Offense put it in terrible situations
Denver
- GIVEAWAY -
INT FUM TOT
18 12 30

so you're saying the broncos with peyton hillis have a better running game than the 49ers and bears with gore and forte? COME ON, I know you're better than that. THe reason for that is because 9ers and bears have a passing attack that NO ONE fears, so they stack the box. Whereas the passing attack by Denver is feared, so they leave the running lanes far more open. Statistics are worthless unless you take the time to actually analyze them.
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
You guys crack me up.....

There have been all this hammer throwing about how the Bears have no WRs but we don't either but if you ask most on this board we are CERTAINLY going to play-offs this season.

So how is it that the Bears with a better defense, a better QB, a better OL and a similar WRs and a bit less RB and playing in a WEAKER division WONT make the play-offs?

LOL!!


It just cracks me up.

WR
Bears
Devin Hester 51 665 13.0 65 3
Rashied Davis 35 445 12.7 36 2
Brandon Lloyd 26 364 14.0 32 2
Marty Booker 14 211 15.1 51 2
Total WR 126 1685 13.37 65 9


49ers
Isaac Bruce 61 835 13.7 63 7
Brandon Jones* 41 449 11.0 40 1
Josh Morgan 20 319 16.0 48 3
Arnaz Battle 24 318 13.3 36 0
Jason Hill 30 317 10.6 33 2
Dominique Zeigler 5 97 19.4 31 0
Total WR 181 2335 12.90 63 13

Defense
NAME YDS YPG RUSH RUSH-YPG PASS PASS-YPG PTS PTS/G
Bears 5355 334.7 1496 93.5 3859 241.2 350 21.9
49ers 5216 326.0 1709 106.8 3507 219.2 381 23.8

RB
NAME ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
Matt Forte 316 1238 3.9 50 8
Frank Gore 240 1036 4.3 41 6

NAME REC YDS AVG LNG TD
Matt Forte 63 477 7.6 19 4
Frank Gore 43 373 8.7 26 2

OL
its hard to really measure or evaluate against OL especially with JTO and his crappy QB vision
49ers 55 sacks (32 JTO)
Bears 29 sacks

Division
NFC North 25 Wins
NFC West 22 Wins


Kyle Orton is not Shuan Hill -

The only thing this proves is that Hill isn't the QB moron that we already knew Orton and Grossman are.

The x-factor here is Cutler. Let's see how well these receivers do with Cutler.

This ain't Madden bro.

Also, you're going to compare a Martz offense to a Bears offense that was run-focused?

Talk about apples and oranges. These stats are totally inapplicable.

Orton isn't that bad... he'll end up tossing prolly 20 TDs for the Broncos and im sure they will take that and their 3 draft picks...

Okay - you've lost ALL CREDIBILITY.....

Orton isn't that bad???????? Dude I can't even argue with you anymore.

Well when Orton does well with the Broncos then you could come here and be like... well... Orton can't throw 40 TDs in a season!!...

OK Miss Cleo.

Orton might not even start.

Chris Simms is terrible... Orton will start this year.
  • crzy
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 39,284
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by crzy:
Denver didn't win this trade.

They traded a franchise quarterback for two players who theoretically could be good players.

Bears won easily.

Great. Cutler instead of throwing 18 INTs in Denver... He can throw 30 INTs in Chicago. Great Pick up!!!

He's not going to be airing it out 50 times per game in Chicago, so he won't throw that many interceptions.

He'll actually have an elite running game with Forte.

elite....

over 1200 yards and 8TDs as a rookie.

Yes, elite.
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by socalfan21:
Originally posted by crzy:
Denver didn't win this trade.

They traded a franchise quarterback for two players who theoretically could be good players.

Bears won easily.

Great. Cutler instead of throwing 18 INTs in Denver... He can throw 30 INTs in Chicago. Great Pick up!!!

He's not going to be airing it out 50 times per game in Chicago, so he won't throw that many interceptions.

He'll actually have an elite running game with Forte.

elite....

over 1200 yards and 8TDs as a rookie.

Yes, elite.

and 500 yards receiving with 4 TDs.

socalfan, do you actually follow the NFL?
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
The Broncos and it's not close. They get a starting QB in Orton, and 2 first round picks, and a 3rd round pick. Everyone knows Cutler>Orton. But Orton actually had a better record last year with a worse supporting cast offensively, so is Cutler so much better than Orton that the difference is 3 total picks, 2 in the 1st round? I don't think so. The Broncos are going to have 2 first round picks in each of the next 2 years, so they can rebuild their defense and pick their own guys. They're going to be able to get whoever they want on draft day.


I know Cutler's numbers were sick, but he was playing QB for a genius coach in Shanahan, with Brandon Marshall and Edde Royal. He's now going to a team whose best WR is Devin Hester, who might not even be the 3rd best WR on the broncos, his offensive line is still being built, and he's playing for a defensive coach. There's NO WAY he puts up 4500 yards and 25 TDs next year. No chance. Now lets see how Orton does now that he has some real receivers, a decent OL, and he plays in McDaniel's QB friendly offense.

you make some really great points. I still think Cutler is a pretty special player, but your reasoning in this is pretty sound. However, the draft is a gamble, so it'll be a few years to judge this regardless of how we feel about it now.
So far, it's a push IMO.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,056
Once Lovie Dovie learns how to utilize a quality QB, it will become clear that Cutler is one of the top QBs in the league.

Denver got some draft choices that may turn out well, but they also had to take Kyle Orton.

Chicago got the better deal. Denver mismanaged this situation almost as poorly as Mike Nolan mismanaged Smith, but it will cost them much more.
Once the Bears get Cutler some weapons this wouldn't even be a debate.

Three years down the line everyone will agree the Bears won this trade.
Cutler is looking sharp out there with no running game..
Bears.
Broncos. You can't have it both ways. The broncos gained two 1st rd choices but they are draft choices that might not pan out. Teams find potential starters at any position in the first three rounds. The bears can't be hopeful of a draft choice panning out. The bears have to hope that they lure a top FA when all other teams have an equal chance to sign the same FA. Of course the bears can hope that the 5th rounder they picked up can turn out to be special.

You can't give your 1st rounders away and hope to improve over time. The bears window of opportunity from this trade is this year and next year. Any success the broncos have this year is a bonus.
what are you laughing at?