JTO Eating Crow Thread!!!

Martz is responsible for allowing this many Turnovers, INTs and Fumbles. He needs to sit JTO down for a half to send a message that it is NOT acceptable. Steve Young and Montana and other greats get sit down when the play is sloppy and unacceptable.

Martz acts like it's just fine and it seems as though it carries over to JTO's play. "We will get em next time, sport". That mentality needs to be squashed by Martz and it seems as though could care less.

A conservative JTO would be VERY effective.

[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 21, 2008 at 14:06:15 ]

Originally posted by Method:
Reasons I want Martz gone:

1) 2-5, should be 3-4 or even 4-3. That loss to the Eagles was ENTIRELY on the shoulders of Martz and JTO.

2) He brought JTO to this team, and JTO sucks.

3) He does not know how to use a TE at all. Vernon Davis has more talent then any of our Receivers except for maybe Morgan, we are passing to him 2 times per game. This is unacceptable.

4) We have one of the top 3 backs in the NFL, and he's usually the best player on the field at any time. He does not get enough touches, and usually Martz is calling stupid f**king Off-Tackles which are NOT what we are good at. We have maulers on this line, run up the f**king middle with a fullback!

Offfense and Martz largely responsible for the Giants loss too, IMHO.

I cannot disagree with the points you make. I would, mildly, disagree with your blanket condemnation of JTO.

JTO has some ability, but also seems far too willing to simply run the play that's called, even if it means throwing an int. Given the precarious state of his position and career, Martz might want to consider backing off the "high risk" part of his offense, at least somewhat, to cut JTO some slack. Give him some easy, undereneath crossing patterns, call more running plays, etc. for at least part of the game. Hard to expect a guy who is as travelled as JTO to have the confidence to disregard a playcall, even if he knows its a bad playcall, and to audible out of it. And, equally, it is hard to expect JTO to fully execute an offense that is as full of high risk throws every game without more in the way of accomplished receivers to help him.

I guess I'm saying that, like you, I think Martz is to blame for some of the ints and fumbles, simply because he runs the high risk offense all the time--and there are some alternatives that he could utilize that would take some of the high risk/high reward away, but would give JTO time to get some confidence and experience.

I think will be benches after this weekend, what makes anybody think that O'fumblevan will change MS will pull the trigger everybody knows that!!!

MS now has to protect himself from MM and his rediculous offense.

[ Edited by legend8 on Oct 21, 2008 at 14:25:25 ]

Originally posted by legend8:
I think will be benches after this weekend, what makes anybody think that O'fumblevan will change MS will pull the trigger everybody knows that!!!

MS now has to protect himself from MM and his rediculous offense.

A temporary benching is needed but it seem as though Martz is allowing the sloppy play. Bad coaching by Martz on this.

SMc already said that he is not pleased with MM offense so both Jto and MM are on a short leash and will be let go at the end of the season.

In Mike Singletary I trust !!!!

Originally posted by Joecool:
Martz is responsible for allowing this many Turnovers, INTs and Fumbles. He needs to sit JTO down for a half to send a message that it is NOT acceptable. Steve Young and Montana and other greats get sit down when the play is sloppy and unacceptable.

Martz acts like it's just fine and it seems as though it carries over to JTO's play. "We will get em next time, sport". That mentality needs to be squashed by Martz and it seems as though could care less.

A conservative JTO would be VERY effective.

I want him to remain agressive but there is a fine line between agressive and stupid and JTO has crossed that line a few times.

Agreed. We've talked a lot in the past about how Nolan seems to favor certain players, no matter what the game film shows (see: Smith, Derek; Roman, Mark). Should we now be turning our attention to Martz? Could Martz be so enamored with the fiery, underdog JTO (I don't know whether to like that or not) that he is becoming blind? We've all heard how Hill is a "gamer," maybe he just looks SO BAD in practice that Martz can't bear the thought of starting him no matter how bad JTO is.

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Martz is responsible for allowing this many Turnovers, INTs and Fumbles. He needs to sit JTO down for a half to send a message that it is NOT acceptable. Steve Young and Montana and other greats get sit down when the play is sloppy and unacceptable.

Martz acts like it's just fine and it seems as though it carries over to JTO's play. "We will get em next time, sport". That mentality needs to be squashed by Martz and it seems as though could care less.

A conservative JTO would be VERY effective.

I want him to remain agressive but there is a fine line between agressive and stupid and JTO has crossed that line a few times.

That is a line that the coach or OC must control. Martz is the one who seems as though he is allowing it. He needs to control this. I remember that this was a problem in STL also, but it wasn't exposed until they began losing. Martz doesn't care about turnovers. A team plays in terms of the mentality of the coach and Martz has that mentality.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Bluefalcon61:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Martz is responsible for allowing this many Turnovers, INTs and Fumbles. He needs to sit JTO down for a half to send a message that it is NOT acceptable. Steve Young and Montana and other greats get sit down when the play is sloppy and unacceptable.

Martz acts like it's just fine and it seems as though it carries over to JTO's play. "We will get em next time, sport". That mentality needs to be squashed by Martz and it seems as though could care less.

A conservative JTO would be VERY effective.

I want him to remain agressive but there is a fine line between agressive and stupid and JTO has crossed that line a few times.

That is a line that the coach or OC must control. Martz is the one who seems as though he is allowing it. He needs to control this. I remember that this was a problem in STL also, but it wasn't exposed until they began losing. Martz doesn't care about turnovers. A team plays in terms of the mentality of the coach and Martz has that mentality.

Joe, JTO has a nasty problem with predetermining where he wants to go with the ball. He is horrible with reading defenses. This was something u critisized our previous QB for taking to long with, but JTO just can't do it period.

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by Joecool:


That is a line that the coach or OC must control. Martz is the one who seems as though he is allowing it. He needs to control this. I remember that this was a problem in STL also, but it wasn't exposed until they began losing. Martz doesn't care about turnovers. A team plays in terms of the mentality of the coach and Martz has that mentality.

Joe, JTO has a nasty problem with predetermining where he wants to go with the ball. He is horrible with reading defenses. This was something u critisized our previous QB for taking to long with, but JTO just can't do it period.

I think predetermining is part of Martz's Offense. Making a read at the line to determine where you want to go with the ball based on the match-ups you see. IMO JTO has made the wrong decisions a few times some have led to incompletions and some have led to INTs. He has also made the correct decision several times that have given us a lot of yards and several points.

A good example of this is that super quick slant that we run. The ball is out of JTO's hands in 1-2 seconds. This cannot be done without predetermining where you want to go with the ball...

JTO needs to learn how to interpret what he is seeing at the line better IMO.

[ Edited by D_Niner on Oct 21, 2008 at 15:38:25 ]

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by Joecool:


That is a line that the coach or OC must control. Martz is the one who seems as though he is allowing it. He needs to control this. I remember that this was a problem in STL also, but it wasn't exposed until they began losing. Martz doesn't care about turnovers. A team plays in terms of the mentality of the coach and Martz has that mentality.

Joe, JTO has a nasty problem with predetermining where he wants to go with the ball. He is horrible with reading defenses. This was something u critisized our previous QB for taking to long with, but JTO just can't do it period.

I think predetermining is part of Martz's Offense. Making a read at the line to determine where you want to go with the ball based on the match-ups you see. IMO JTO has made the wrong decisions a few times some have led to incompletions and some have led to INTs. He has also made the correct decision several times that have given us a lot of yards and several points.

A good example of this is that super quick slant that we run. The ball is out of JTO's hands in 1-2 seconds. This cannot be done without predetermining where you want to go with the ball...

JTO needs to learn how to interpret what he is seeing at the line better IMO.

No, incorrect. There is no predeterming in the NFL. You do that and you will throw a lot of picks bc Defenses are so good at disguising coverages. However, what you are talking about is a hot read. A hot read and predetermining are not the same thing

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by Joecool:


That is a line that the coach or OC must control. Martz is the one who seems as though he is allowing it. He needs to control this. I remember that this was a problem in STL also, but it wasn't exposed until they began losing. Martz doesn't care about turnovers. A team plays in terms of the mentality of the coach and Martz has that mentality.

Joe, JTO has a nasty problem with predetermining where he wants to go with the ball. He is horrible with reading defenses. This was something u critisized our previous QB for taking to long with, but JTO just can't do it period.

I think predetermining is part of Martz's Offense. Making a read at the line to determine where you want to go with the ball based on the match-ups you see. IMO JTO has made the wrong decisions a few times some have led to incompletions and some have led to INTs. He has also made the correct decision several times that have given us a lot of yards and several points.

A good example of this is that super quick slant that we run. The ball is out of JTO's hands in 1-2 seconds. This cannot be done without predetermining where you want to go with the ball...

JTO needs to learn how to interpret what he is seeing at the line better IMO.

No, incorrect. There is no predeterming in the NFL. You do that and you will throw a lot of picks bc Defenses are so good at disguising coverages. However, what you are talking about is a hot read. A hot read and predetermining are not the same thing

I've watch JTO be successful with this several times using the quick slant mentioned above and he clearly knows where the ball will go before the snap... I've seen Warner and Bulger do this same thing, that's why I assume it is part of the Martz O. Normally I would agree with you that Predetermining is a bad thing though..

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by Joecool:


That is a line that the coach or OC must control. Martz is the one who seems as though he is allowing it. He needs to control this. I remember that this was a problem in STL also, but it wasn't exposed until they began losing. Martz doesn't care about turnovers. A team plays in terms of the mentality of the coach and Martz has that mentality.

Joe, JTO has a nasty problem with predetermining where he wants to go with the ball. He is horrible with reading defenses. This was something u critisized our previous QB for taking to long with, but JTO just can't do it period.

I think predetermining is part of Martz's Offense. Making a read at the line to determine where you want to go with the ball based on the match-ups you see. IMO JTO has made the wrong decisions a few times some have led to incompletions and some have led to INTs. He has also made the correct decision several times that have given us a lot of yards and several points.

A good example of this is that super quick slant that we run. The ball is out of JTO's hands in 1-2 seconds. This cannot be done without predetermining where you want to go with the ball...

JTO needs to learn how to interpret what he is seeing at the line better IMO.

No, incorrect. There is no predeterming in the NFL. You do that and you will throw a lot of picks bc Defenses are so good at disguising coverages. However, what you are talking about is a hot read. A hot read and predetermining are not the same thing

I've watch JTO be successful with this several times using the quick slant mentioned above and he clearly knows where the ball will go before the snap... I've seen Warner and Bulger do this same thing, that's why I assume it is part of the Martz O. Normally I would agree with you that Predetermining is a bad thing though..

That quick slant is a hot read keying of the CB's first step. Depending on which foot the CB steps with at the snap tell you whether to go there or not.

Singletary needs to tell JTO to slow down!!! He is a good QB, wants to win so much he forces the ball in places that he shouldnt. That crazy little energizer bunny

I'm not talking about predetermining. Most of his INTs are from a defensive player that is not in view of his site such as behind the view path of tall linemen. INT is one thing but fumbles are not acceptable.

Martz is accepting these fumbles and not working on JTO holding the ball closer to his body.