There are 44 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

2013 Defensive Line Prospects (DE, DT, and NT)

  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,051
Originally posted by eonblue:
That was a totally different circumstance. I don't disagree with idea of back to back dline pick but I think the front office needs to be a little morr intelligent than that. We don't need to flood a position. We need to b smart and get as much value out of each pick as possible.

Defensive line is not a position. We can draft defensive line back-to-back and not flood a position.

I think we will need a nose tackle capable of starting--and starting rather quickly.
We will need a defensive end that has the potential to become a starter in the future and is capable of being a rotational player this year.

We are going to have other needs.
If Goldson leaves, and it looks like he will, we are going to need safety.
We could move to improve at wide receiver, corner back, and tight end.

I want to us to meet our needs, but I really do not care how we do it.
Nor, do I see any logical reason to argue that we should use our first round pick on a defensive end, nose tackle, or any other position.

Best Player Available.
[ Edited by buck on Mar 1, 2013 at 6:11 PM ]
Originally posted by buck:
Defensive line is not a position. We can draft defensive line back-to-back and not flood a position.

I think we will need a nose tackle capable of starting--and starting rather quickly.
We will need a defensive end that has the potential to become a starter in the future and is capable of being a rotational player this year.

We are going to have other needs.
If Goldson leaves, and it looks like he will, we are going to need safety.
We could move to improve at wide receiver, corner back, and tight end.

I want to us to meet our needs, but I really do not care how we do it.
Nor, do I see any logical reason to argue that we should use our first round pick on a defensive end, nose tackle, or any other position.

Best Player Available.

I agree with everything you have said but I do have a position premium in 2 areas. First with Goldson possibly being franchised were going to need to draft a safety to replace him. And if we resign him you can gurantee were not going to resign Whitner and we will need to draft his replacement. I think safety and WR are the one area of improvement so I would like us to get glue chip prospect to learn under Whitner and/or Goldson. Second with all this wealth of pass rush we have in this draft I would really like us to draft the best pass rusher at 31. That's if he worth the 31st pick. Okafor, Moore, Carradine, Montgomery could all make it to 31 and the Giants showed just how powerful a rotation of pass rushers can be. This needs to generate pass rush to function properly so we should get some rotation depth going there as well.
Aldon reunites with Sheldon...Nice.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,051
Originally posted by eonblue:
Originally posted by buck:
Defensive line is not a position. We can draft defensive line back-to-back and not flood a position.

I think we will need a nose tackle capable of starting--and starting rather quickly.
We will need a defensive end that has the potential to become a starter in the future and is capable of being a rotational player this year.

We are going to have other needs.
If Goldson leaves, and it looks like he will, we are going to need safety.
We could move to improve at wide receiver, corner back, and tight end.

I want to us to meet our needs, but I really do not care how we do it.
Nor, do I see any logical reason to argue that we should use our first round pick on a defensive end, nose tackle, or any other position.

Best Player Available.

I agree with everything you have said but I do have a position premium in 2 areas. First with Goldson possibly being franchised were going to need to draft a safety to replace him. And if we resign him you can gurantee were not going to resign Whitner and we will need to draft his replacement. I think safety and WR are the one area of improvement so I would like us to get glue chip prospect to learn under Whitner and/or Goldson. Second with all this wealth of pass rush we have in this draft I would really like us to draft the best pass rusher at 31. That's if he worth the 31st pick. Okafor, Moore, Carradine, Montgomery could all make it to 31 and the Giants showed just how powerful a rotation of pass rushers can be. This needs to generate pass rush to function properly so we should get some rotation depth going there as well.

I agree that we need to improve the pass rush. Having more depth at OLB would surely help.
It would also help, and maybe more so, to have a nose tackle that can collapse the pocket.
We need someone solid enough at DE to relieve Justin Smith.

But, I would hesitate to draft an OLB with pick #31 or #34. We have two All Pro outside linebackers.
I really think that it would be a mistake to use a first or second round pick on a back-up OLB.

I know there are rumors that Baalke wanted Bruce Irvin last year, but I have not found any reliable source that verifies that rumor.
If you have a source, please post a link.
So who's the Justin Smith in this group? I've read this class is top heavy with DL talent. Anyone we should package #31/#34 to move up and get?
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
So who's the Justin Smith in this group? I've read this class is top heavy with DL talent. Anyone we should package #31/#34 to move up and get?

I disagree. I think this DL draft class has good depth.
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
So who's the Justin Smith in this group? I've read this class is top heavy with DL talent. Anyone we should package #31/#34 to move up and get?

I disagree. I think this DL draft class has good depth.

Unless we get extremely lucky, we won't be getting a Justin Smith in the draft. Smith was a top 10 pick and a complete bad ass even in college.

We will be keeping our fingers crossed Hankins or Jessee Williams is on the board. If Short somehow fell to us, he would be must grab. Sylvester Williams is another contender, but probably in the 2nd round. Datone could fall as well. Those are the top 5 D-Lineman I could see us having a shot at.

-Hankins/Williams would both be solid additions for us at the NT and potential starters right out of the gate if Sopoaga isn't re-signed. Even if Sopoaga is back, either Hankins or Williams would still see plenty of action. You won't hear either of their names called often, but you can expect them as rookies to be solid gap pluggers.
-Datone Jones - everybody's new favorite, my problem with him in the draft is the 'tweener syndrome. He is a bet undersied to play 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT, and projects better as an oversized strong side 4-3 DE.
-Sylvester Williams was a bit dissapoitning in senior bowl, and a decent but not an impressive combine. But during games, his combination of quickness and size is very impressive and he could play the 3-4 DE. But he will take some time to develop.
-Short - if somehow he fell close to us, we would have to pull the trigger and move up. One of the most impressive D-lineman prospects in the entire draft, and some people are projecting him as a late 1st rounder. I expect him to make an instant impact on an NFL roster.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
So who's the Justin Smith in this group? I've read this class is top heavy with DL talent. Anyone we should package #31/#34 to move up and get?

I disagree. I think this DL draft class has good depth.

Unless we get extremely lucky, we won't be getting a Justin Smith in the draft. Smith was a top 10 pick and a complete bad ass even in college.

We will be keeping our fingers crossed Hankins or Jessee Williams is on the board. If Short somehow fell to us, he would be must grab. Sylvester Williams is another contender, but probably in the 2nd round. Datone could fall as well. Those are the top 5 D-Lineman I could see us having a shot at.

-Hankins/Williams would both be solid additions for us at the NT and potential starters right out of the gate if Sopoaga isn't re-signed. Even if Sopoaga is back, either Hankins or Williams would still see plenty of action. You won't hear either of their names called often, but you can expect them as rookies to be solid gap pluggers.
-Datone Jones - everybody's new favorite, my problem with him in the draft is the 'tweener syndrome. He is a bet undersied to play 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT, and projects better as an oversized strong side 4-3 DE.
-Sylvester Williams was a bit dissapoitning in senior bowl, and a decent but not an impressive combine. But during games, his combination of quickness and size is very impressive and he could play the 3-4 DE. But he will take some time to develop.
-Short - if somehow he fell close to us, we would have to pull the trigger and move up. One of the most impressive D-lineman prospects in the entire draft, and some people are projecting him as a late 1st rounder. I expect him to make an instant impact on an NFL roster.

I agree. Kawann Short is one of my favorite DL prospects. Some people on here say he won't fit in a 3-4 scheme though?
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

-Datone Jones - everybody's new favorite, my problem with him in the draft is the 'tweener syndrome. He is a bet undersied to play 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT, and projects better as an oversized strong side 4-3 DE.

At 6-4 and 280 lbs, Datone is already larger than Justin was when he came to us. Justin's listed at 285-290 lbs right now, depending on where you look. You don't feel Datone can get there quickly? I do agree that he can play well as a 4-3 LDE though.. if a 4-3 team wanted him there.
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
So who's the Justin Smith in this group? I've read this class is top heavy with DL talent. Anyone we should package #31/#34 to move up and get?

I disagree. I think this DL draft class has good depth.

Unless we get extremely lucky, we won't be getting a Justin Smith in the draft. Smith was a top 10 pick and a complete bad ass even in college.

We will be keeping our fingers crossed Hankins or Jessee Williams is on the board. If Short somehow fell to us, he would be must grab. Sylvester Williams is another contender, but probably in the 2nd round. Datone could fall as well. Those are the top 5 D-Lineman I could see us having a shot at.

-Hankins/Williams would both be solid additions for us at the NT and potential starters right out of the gate if Sopoaga isn't re-signed. Even if Sopoaga is back, either Hankins or Williams would still see plenty of action. You won't hear either of their names called often, but you can expect them as rookies to be solid gap pluggers.
-Datone Jones - everybody's new favorite, my problem with him in the draft is the 'tweener syndrome. He is a bet undersied to play 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT, and projects better as an oversized strong side 4-3 DE.
-Sylvester Williams was a bit dissapoitning in senior bowl, and a decent but not an impressive combine. But during games, his combination of quickness and size is very impressive and he could play the 3-4 DE. But he will take some time to develop.
-Short - if somehow he fell close to us, we would have to pull the trigger and move up. One of the most impressive D-lineman prospects in the entire draft, and some people are projecting him as a late 1st rounder. I expect him to make an instant impact on an NFL roster.

I agree. Kawann Short is one of my favorite DL prospects. Some people on here say he won't fit in a 3-4 scheme though?

I think he would do really well in the 3-4. I'm a big Purdue fan and a huge fan of Kawann.
Originally posted by Travisty13:
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
So who's the Justin Smith in this group? I've read this class is top heavy with DL talent. Anyone we should package #31/#34 to move up and get?

I disagree. I think this DL draft class has good depth.

Unless we get extremely lucky, we won't be getting a Justin Smith in the draft. Smith was a top 10 pick and a complete bad ass even in college.

We will be keeping our fingers crossed Hankins or Jessee Williams is on the board. If Short somehow fell to us, he would be must grab. Sylvester Williams is another contender, but probably in the 2nd round. Datone could fall as well. Those are the top 5 D-Lineman I could see us having a shot at.

-Hankins/Williams would both be solid additions for us at the NT and potential starters right out of the gate if Sopoaga isn't re-signed. Even if Sopoaga is back, either Hankins or Williams would still see plenty of action. You won't hear either of their names called often, but you can expect them as rookies to be solid gap pluggers.
-Datone Jones - everybody's new favorite, my problem with him in the draft is the 'tweener syndrome. He is a bet undersied to play 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT, and projects better as an oversized strong side 4-3 DE.
-Sylvester Williams was a bit dissapoitning in senior bowl, and a decent but not an impressive combine. But during games, his combination of quickness and size is very impressive and he could play the 3-4 DE. But he will take some time to develop.
-Short - if somehow he fell close to us, we would have to pull the trigger and move up. One of the most impressive D-lineman prospects in the entire draft, and some people are projecting him as a late 1st rounder. I expect him to make an instant impact on an NFL roster.

I agree. Kawann Short is one of my favorite DL prospects. Some people on here say he won't fit in a 3-4 scheme though?

I think he would do really well in the 3-4. I'm a big Purdue fan and a huge fan of Kawann.

I agree. Think of the added value he could provide on special teams as well blocking FGs!
[ Edited by PTulini on Mar 4, 2013 at 2:16 PM ]
Originally posted by PTulini:
I agree. Kawann Short is one of my favorite DL prospects. Some people on here say he won't fit in a 3-4 scheme though?

Some people will say anything. They say Kawann Short won't fit the 3-4 because he is going to shoot the gaps and penetrate a lot of the times rather then control and hold the point of attack. But there is nothing to suggest Short can't make the transition. He probably has one of the best first step quickness off the snap of any D-Lineman in the draft, has strong hands, and plays well with leverage. You can't teach athleticism and Short has it.


Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
At 6-4 and 280 lbs, Datone is already larger than Justin was when he came to us. Justin's listed at 285-290 lbs right now, depending on where you look. You don't feel Datone can get there quickly? I do agree that he can play well as a 4-3 LDE though.. if a 4-3 team wanted him there.

Datone's an interesting guy. Based on how his body looks, it seems like has the frame to get up to 290 or slim down to 275. But I'm looking at his skill set. I think he has poor use of his hands as a D-Lineman. He will use his hands/arms to engage a lineman but then doesn't do anything else, its very vanilla. He often engages with hands and uses good foot speed to slide horizontally to beat people, which is really the best part of his game (with his size, moves easliy horizontally). He gets too high too often and needs to do a better job of staying low, keeping his balance. High energy guy with probably a great work ethic, coming off an injury to have a breakout senior year is a good sign. I read he is doing MMA training to work on hands and I think thats critical to him developing.

IMO people get too much in the business of comparing players to Justin Smith. I mean thats like comparing a guy to Calvin Johnson. If they were really that close to the physical freak, they wouldn't be discussed as a late 1st rounder.
Do you think Utah DT Star Lotulelei could go and is worthy of being selected #1 overall in this draft?
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Some people will say anything. They say Kawann Short won't fit the 3-4 because he is going to shoot the gaps and penetrate a lot of the times rather then control and hold the point of attack. But there is nothing to suggest Short can't make the transition. He probably has one of the best first step quickness off the snap of any D-Lineman in the draft, has strong hands, and plays well with leverage. You can't teach athleticism and Short has it.

Also think Short will be fine as a 3-4 DL.. I prefer him as a penetrating NT though.

Datone's an interesting guy. Based on how his body looks, it seems like has the frame to get up to 290 or slim down to 275. But I'm looking at his skill set. I think he has poor use of his hands as a D-Lineman. He will use his hands/arms to engage a lineman but then doesn't do anything else, its very vanilla. He often engages with hands and uses good foot speed to slide horizontally to beat people, which is really the best part of his game (with his size, moves easliy horizontally). He gets too high too often and needs to do a better job of staying low, keeping his balance. High energy guy with probably a great work ethic, coming off an injury to have a breakout senior year is a good sign. I read he is doing MMA training to work on hands and I think thats critical to him developing.

IMO people get too much in the business of comparing players to Justin Smith. I mean thats like comparing a guy to Calvin Johnson. If they were really that close to the physical freak, they wouldn't be discussed as a late 1st rounder.

You heard right. Datone is working on his hand combat. I bet Justin didn't come out of the draft with perfect hand usage either. People look at Justin's body type and then look at Datone's... thinking "how different." Well yeah.. there's over a decade of change that bodies transform to. I'm sure there are many late-first rounders over the years taken that long after with hindsight, people would say were outright steals. Datone is naturally strong, and will develop leverage and technique. And as you stated, his quickness can get him the penetration needed inside.

Anyway, I guess we are not really arguing a point at all here... due to the bolded. I just don't really get the "undersized" criticism. I mean, Justin was 267 lbs when first drafted in 2001.
@NFLDraftScout: Chiefs, Steelers, Vikings, Saints, Ravens and Seahawks worked out MSSU DT Brandon Williams today. Should be first D2 player drafted.