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Originally posted by Ninefan56:
In this draft we have the ammunition to draft virtually anyone we would like. But the question is who would we go for and would that person be the player we need? So when all is said and done who are the dlinement that would help our team and is Baalke likely to go and get that player?
Also, are any of this years backup linemen, already on the team, developing at all in Baalke's opinion? If Ian Williams is not developing then it is time to cut him and Dobbs, and Jerod Eddy. If there is some movement then the pressure is less and we can evaluate and develop.
Any word on Star Lotulelie? Is is heart ok and will he drop to somewhere close enough for us to go up and get him? Would he helpl our team?
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Some people will say anything. They say Kawann Short won't fit the 3-4 because he is going to shoot the gaps and penetrate a lot of the times rather then control and hold the point of attack. But there is nothing to suggest Short can't make the transition. He probably has one of the best first step quickness off the snap of any D-Lineman in the draft, has strong hands, and plays well with leverage. You can't teach athleticism and Short has it.
Also think Short will be fine as a 3-4 DL.. I prefer him as a penetrating NT though.
Datone's an interesting guy. Based on how his body looks, it seems like has the frame to get up to 290 or slim down to 275. But I'm looking at his skill set. I think he has poor use of his hands as a D-Lineman. He will use his hands/arms to engage a lineman but then doesn't do anything else, its very vanilla. He often engages with hands and uses good foot speed to slide horizontally to beat people, which is really the best part of his game (with his size, moves easliy horizontally). He gets too high too often and needs to do a better job of staying low, keeping his balance. High energy guy with probably a great work ethic, coming off an injury to have a breakout senior year is a good sign. I read he is doing MMA training to work on hands and I think thats critical to him developing.
IMO people get too much in the business of comparing players to Justin Smith. I mean thats like comparing a guy to Calvin Johnson. If they were really that close to the physical freak, they wouldn't be discussed as a late 1st rounder.
You heard right. Datone is working on his hand combat. I bet Justin didn't come out of the draft with perfect hand usage either. People look at Justin's body type and then look at Datone's... thinking "how different." Well yeah.. there's over a decade of change that bodies transform to. I'm sure there are many late-first rounders over the years taken that long after with hindsight, people would say were outright steals. Datone is naturally strong, and will develop leverage and technique. And as you stated, his quickness can get him the penetration needed inside.
Anyway, I guess we are not really arguing a point at all here... due to the bolded. I just don't really get the "undersized" criticism. I mean, Justin was 267 lbs when first drafted in 2001.
Representatives from 27 NFL teams gathered at Illinois' pro day, where 15 players worked out. One player in particular will have scouts scrambling to the video tape.
Glenn Foster, DL (6-foot-3 5/8, 286 pounds) — Foster ran the 40-yard dash in 4.82 and 4.79 seconds, had a 4.45-second short shuttle and a 7.15-second three-cone drill. He recorded a 39 1/2-inch vertical jump and a 10-foot-9 broad jump. He also had 29 lifts of 225 pounds on the bench press. Foster was not invited to the NFL Scouting Combine. Foster had a fantastic workout, and he would have been the top performer in his position group at the combine in the vertical jump and broad jump. Foster will have a lot of scouts scrambling back to the film room to see why he didn't have a better draft grade and wasn't invited to the combine.
Kwame Short? LolOriginally posted by buck:As I understand it, Justin Smith has a motor that will not stop. Datone Jones seems to have a similar motor.
Often, quite often, the difference between a good player and a great player is the mind and the heart--the determination to get better and the will to do the necessary work.
The major knock on Kwame Short and Sylvester Williams is their motors. Playing on a 3-4 defensive line is grueling, physical, and generally without accolades.
In my estimation, Datone Jones and Brandon Williams, and perhaps Cornelius Washington, are players that have that drive and mental toughness that so frequently is the critical difference between good and great.
Originally posted by Travisty13:
Kwame Short? Lol
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Travisty13:
Kwame Short? Lol
Kwann Short. Sorry
Originally posted by PTulini:I bet the Seahawks will take him in the 2nd those b******s
@NFLDraftScout: Chiefs, Steelers, Vikings, Saints, Ravens and Seahawks worked out MSSU DT Brandon Williams today. Should be first D2 player drafted.
Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Originally posted by PTulini:I bet the Seahawks will take him in the 2nd those b******s
@NFLDraftScout: Chiefs, Steelers, Vikings, Saints, Ravens and Seahawks worked out MSSU DT Brandon Williams today. Should be first D2 player drafted.
I wouldn't be mad at all if we took him at 34. Best NT prospect in the draft imo
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Some people will say anything. They say Kawann Short won't fit the 3-4 because he is going to shoot the gaps and penetrate a lot of the times rather then control and hold the point of attack. But there is nothing to suggest Short can't make the transition. He probably has one of the best first step quickness off the snap of any D-Lineman in the draft, has strong hands, and plays well with leverage. You can't teach athleticism and Short has it.
Also think Short will be fine as a 3-4 DL.. I prefer him as a penetrating NT though.
Datone's an interesting guy. Based on how his body looks, it seems like has the frame to get up to 290 or slim down to 275. But I'm looking at his skill set. I think he has poor use of his hands as a D-Lineman. He will use his hands/arms to engage a lineman but then doesn't do anything else, its very vanilla. He often engages with hands and uses good foot speed to slide horizontally to beat people, which is really the best part of his game (with his size, moves easliy horizontally). He gets too high too often and needs to do a better job of staying low, keeping his balance. High energy guy with probably a great work ethic, coming off an injury to have a breakout senior year is a good sign. I read he is doing MMA training to work on hands and I think thats critical to him developing.
IMO people get too much in the business of comparing players to Justin Smith. I mean thats like comparing a guy to Calvin Johnson. If they were really that close to the physical freak, they wouldn't be discussed as a late 1st rounder.
You heard right. Datone is working on his hand combat. I bet Justin didn't come out of the draft with perfect hand usage either. People look at Justin's body type and then look at Datone's... thinking "how different." Well yeah.. there's over a decade of change that bodies transform to. I'm sure there are many late-first rounders over the years taken that long after with hindsight, people would say were outright steals. Datone is naturally strong, and will develop leverage and technique. And as you stated, his quickness can get him the penetration needed inside.
Anyway, I guess we are not really arguing a point at all here... due to the bolded. I just don't really get the "undersized" criticism. I mean, Justin was 267 lbs when first drafted in 2001.
As I understand it, Justin Smith has a motor that will not stop. Datone Jones seems to have a similar motor.
Often, quite often, the difference between a good player and a great player is the mind and the heart--the determination to get better and the will to do the necessary work.
The major knock on Kwame Short and Sylvester Williams is their motors. Playing on a 3-4 defensive line is grueling, physical, and generally without accolades.
In my estimation, Datone Jones and Brandon Williams, and perhaps Cornelius Washington, are players that have that drive and mental toughness that so frequently is the critical difference between good and great.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Some people will say anything. They say Kawann Short won't fit the 3-4 because he is going to shoot the gaps and penetrate a lot of the times rather then control and hold the point of attack. But there is nothing to suggest Short can't make the transition. He probably has one of the best first step quickness off the snap of any D-Lineman in the draft, has strong hands, and plays well with leverage. You can't teach athleticism and Short has it.
Also think Short will be fine as a 3-4 DL.. I prefer him as a penetrating NT though.
Datone's an interesting guy. Based on how his body looks, it seems like has the frame to get up to 290 or slim down to 275. But I'm looking at his skill set. I think he has poor use of his hands as a D-Lineman. He will use his hands/arms to engage a lineman but then doesn't do anything else, its very vanilla. He often engages with hands and uses good foot speed to slide horizontally to beat people, which is really the best part of his game (with his size, moves easliy horizontally). He gets too high too often and needs to do a better job of staying low, keeping his balance. High energy guy with probably a great work ethic, coming off an injury to have a breakout senior year is a good sign. I read he is doing MMA training to work on hands and I think thats critical to him developing.
IMO people get too much in the business of comparing players to Justin Smith. I mean thats like comparing a guy to Calvin Johnson. If they were really that close to the physical freak, they wouldn't be discussed as a late 1st rounder.
You heard right. Datone is working on his hand combat. I bet Justin didn't come out of the draft with perfect hand usage either. People look at Justin's body type and then look at Datone's... thinking "how different." Well yeah.. there's over a decade of change that bodies transform to. I'm sure there are many late-first rounders over the years taken that long after with hindsight, people would say were outright steals. Datone is naturally strong, and will develop leverage and technique. And as you stated, his quickness can get him the penetration needed inside.
Anyway, I guess we are not really arguing a point at all here... due to the bolded. I just don't really get the "undersized" criticism. I mean, Justin was 267 lbs when first drafted in 2001.
As I understand it, Justin Smith has a motor that will not stop. Datone Jones seems to have a similar motor.
Often, quite often, the difference between a good player and a great player is the mind and the heart--the determination to get better and the will to do the necessary work.
The major knock on Kwame Short and Sylvester Williams is their motors. Playing on a 3-4 defensive line is grueling, physical, and generally without accolades.
In my estimation, Datone Jones and Brandon Williams, and perhaps Cornelius Washington, are players that have that drive and mental toughness that so frequently is the critical difference between good and great.
