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Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by BrianGO:
The nostalgia on this website for men running fast in their underwear never fails to amaze me.

Tell me what is wrong with a #2 TE who gets wide open on seem routes down the middle? Tell me what is wrong with a #2TE that blocks as well or better than any other TE his size in the NFL?

IF the ball comes his way, that is a big "if", Delanie Walker is as talented as any other #2 TE in the league.

Will Fleener be better? Probably. Do we desperately need him? Absolutely not.


There is NO OTHER TE HIS SIZE. There's a reason why there's no other 6 foot tall tight-ends in football. He's the best 6 foot tight-end and the only one.............doesn't mean the position shouldn't be upgraded. f**k it, you could probably find a guy that would be the best 5'4" running back the NFL has ever seen, doesn't mean its optimal.


"If the ball comes his way." That's not the easiest thing in the world considering he struggles to get separation on everyone but linebackers. There's slower TE's who manage to get open simply due to their body-size but once again, the only 6 foot tall tight-end in football......Walker is a guy really without a position.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Apr 24, 2012 at 7:35 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
The nostalgia on this website for men running fast in their underwear never fails to amaze me.

Tell me what is wrong with a #2 TE who gets wide open on seem routes down the middle? Tell me what is wrong with a #2TE that blocks as well or better than any other TE his size in the NFL?

IF the ball comes his way, that is a big "if", Delanie Walker is as talented as any other #2 TE in the league.

Will Fleener be better? Probably. Do we desperately need him? Absolutely not.


There is NO OTHER TE HIS SIZE. There's a reason why there's no other 6 foot tall tight-ends in football. He's the best 6 foot tight-end ever.............doesn't mean the position shouldn't be upgraded. f**k it, you could probably find a guy that would be the best 5'4" running back the NFL has ever seen, doesn't mean its optimal.

Phoenix dude, you've been on this thread since like 3PM. Go watch a movie or something bud.
Originally posted by Amir:
I really really really really really hope he's available at 30 and we pass on him. Better yet, I hope he's there and we trade out and the team trading in our spot takes him.

This place will go CRAY.

Epic meltdown. The sick and twisted side to me says, let's follow this scenario.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Phoenix dude, you've been on this thread since like 3PM. Go watch a movie or something bud.

Dude, why do you even care what anyone does, if you don't like what I have to say, go piss off to another section of the forum instead of crying like a little girl. You've been on here considerably longer than me today, does that mean you've been sitting at your computer the whole time? Absolutely not.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Phoenix dude, you've been on this thread since like 3PM. Go watch a movie or something bud.

Dude, why do you even care what anyone does, if you don't like what I have to say, go piss off to another section of the forum instead of crying like a little girl. You've been on here considerably longer than me today, does that mean you've been sitting at your computer the whole time? Absolutely not.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Epic meltdown. The sick and twisted side to me says, let's follow this scenario.

Not really. I think the anti-Fleener people are far more emotionally invested. If the 49ers pick someone else, I know I'll be fine with it but I can truly see heads exploding if Fleener does end up being the guy. Susweel has already threatened to go be a Raiders fan if the 49ers select Fleener and other people are equally and absurdly against drafting the guy so that would be interesting to see.


I'd be fine with Hill, Randle, Zeitler, Reyes or any number of other people at the same slot. I'd be ecstatic if they picked Hill, he's another guy that can help with the offense so it's not an all-or-nothing type deal. I felt the same way about Patrick Peterson last year and in previous years, Willis and DeSean Jackson, whatever happens, I trust this current 49ers management and coaching staff more than any they've had since back in the Mariucci days.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Apr 24, 2012 at 7:45 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Not really. I think the anti-Fleener people are far more emotionally invested. If the 49ers pick someone else, I know I'll be fine with it but I can truly see heads exploding if Fleener does end up being the guy. I'd be fine with Hill, Randle, Zeitler, Reyes or any number of other people at the same slot. I'd be ecstatic if they picked Hill, he's another guy that can help with the offense so it's not an all-or-nothing type deal. I felt the same way about Patrick Peterson last year and in previous years, Willis and DeSean Jackson, whatever happens, I trust this current 49ers management and coaching staff more than any they've had since back in the Mariucci days.

He's a tight end. How emotionally invested can you get?

I think the bigger meltdown occurs if we take him over Hill.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
He's a tight end. How emotionally invested can you get?

I think the bigger meltdown occurs if we take him over Hill.

Yeah, most of the anti-Fleener types are the "we need WR's, who gives a s**t how good they are, we need WR's period" crowd so selecting Fleener with Hill on the board would set off something just short of a nuclear meltdown on here.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
So lets assumed that we have Fleener and VD. Who will take the Delanie Walker role. Remember the guy does the run blocking, pass protection, and pass catching. Anyone one of these is possible when he's in there with VD. His role is to be a versatile #2 team player without the individual, sexy pass catching numbers, so that VD can be more of a weapon in the pass catching area without being locked into the other 2 area too much.

So you have Fleener and VD. Who will do the grunt work. Sacrifice some individual numbers for the good of the team. Obviously they can both be out on a pattern and also be interchangeable, but at some point one guy has to do more of the blocking in place of the other. Who do you give the ball more to...


Ideally both should do "grunt work." If you look at the logic behind Harbaugh's system, it's the dual-threat ability that is crucial. The TE can be in there to block...but the TE can also go out on a route and the defense doesn't really know which will happen. With Walker in there, its so much easier to defend due to his size, you put a safety on the guy if he does go out on a route and you'll be fine, you can't say the same with Fleener or VD. You can't really cover either with most linebackers and both are physical and too big...especially Fleener, for a single CB or S to handle on their own.


Defenses will have to react by backing off a bit or they get burnt when one of these guys breaks through coverage or you wind up with some mismatch down the field. That versatility will help Gore, teams won't be able to stack the box as much, it will also help the WR's on the field as the defense will have to spread their attention to everyone and it makes it really difficult on a defense when the two best receivers are both tight-ends, that's extremely difficult to defend.


Football is all about mismatches, you put a big receiving target at TE at the same time as VD and now the defense truly has to pick their poison.

I agree on most of the 'idea' of having Fleener and VD as a dual weapons. But where I differ from yours is that the theory or idea may not be reality. You said it yourself that 'ideally both would do the grunt work' but reality may be what we have now in Delanie. And that is a versatile secondary role. They can develop Fleener's lack of blocking skills. I don't see that as a major issue. It will take time. Fleener may be a better pass catcher than Delanie. But Delanie is no slouch. He has shown that he can beat both LB and Safety. The role of Delanie is to give the LB and Safety another guy to pay attention to along with VD. If they pay too much attention to VD they may get burn in the running game and the added pressure on the LB and safety to recognized in the pass catching.

You're thinking both Fleener and VD can be all that they can be as both #1. But my thinking is 1 of them may be limited to the required and needed #2 role.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
He's a tight end. How emotionally invested can you get?

I think the bigger meltdown occurs if we take him over Hill.

Yeah, most of the anti-Fleener types are the "we need WR's, who gives a s**t how good they are, we need WR's period" crowd so selecting Fleener with Hill on the board would set off something just short of a nuclear meltdown on here.

We currently have a probowl TE

We currently have 0 probowl WR's
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
The nostalgia on this website for men running fast in their underwear never fails to amaze me.

Tell me what is wrong with a #2 TE who gets wide open on seem routes down the middle? Tell me what is wrong with a #2TE that blocks as well or better than any other TE his size in the NFL?

IF the ball comes his way, that is a big "if", Delanie Walker is as talented as any other #2 TE in the league.

Will Fleener be better? Probably. Do we desperately need him? Absolutely not.


There is NO OTHER TE HIS SIZE. There's a reason why there's no other 6 foot tall tight-ends in football. He's the best 6 foot tight-end ever.............doesn't mean the position shouldn't be upgraded. f**k it, you could probably find a guy that would be the best 5'4" running back the NFL has ever seen, doesn't mean its optimal.


"If the ball comes his way." That's not the easiest thing in the world considering he struggles to get separation on everyone but linebackers. There's slower TE's who manage to get open simply due to their body-size but once again, the only 6 foot tall tight-end in football......Walker is a guy really without a position.


Alright fine. Forget his size. He's a "solid" blocker, regardless of size.
He also lines up as an H-back, not many NFL TE's can do that.

"everyone but linebackers"?
To avoid turning this into a "you-know-who" thread, I'll just say that its the TE's job to get separation from linebackers.

Let me also say this. For anyone who questions his athleticism. How many TE's have ever been used on kickoff returns? He returned a TD in a pre-season game on a kickoff return. That is pretty elite athleticism for a TE.

Here is the other thing no one is mentioning about Fleener. Who is his quarterback? What would Fleener be without the greatest QB prospect to come out of the draft in over a decade throwing him the ball?
Wait, I can answer that...

"A tall young man who runs fast in his underwear."
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I agree on most of the 'idea' of having Fleener and VD as a dual weapons. But where I differ from yours is that the theory or idea may not be reality. You said it yourself that 'ideally both would do the grunt work' but reality may be what we have now in Delanie. And that is a versatile secondary role. They can develop Fleener's lack of blocking skills. I don't see that as a major issue. It will take time. Fleener may be a better pass catcher than Delanie. But Delanie is no slouch. He has shown that he can beat both LB and Safety. The role of Delanie is to give the LB and Safety another guy to pay attention to along with VD. If they pay too much attention to VD they may get burn in the running game and the added pressure on the LB and safety to recognized in the pass catching.

You're thinking both Fleener and VD can be all that they can be as both #1. But my thinking is 1 of them may be limited to the required and needed #2 role.

When? Seriously, go back through the games this season and see how many times Delanie was getting locked down by a single safety. If he was a WR he'd be mediocre at best. He's still only 6 foot tall so when it comes to TE's, that is one easy cover for a safety to make. The times Delanie breaks free its going up against a linebacker and those are far and few between. The way teams defend Walker you can't defend a guy like Fleener because you will get burnt. You can't just throw a single safety on a 6'6" guy with 4.5 speed and call it a day, won't happen.


The idea is that you have multiple threats that a defense has to respect. Walker is not a guy that is keeping defensive coordinators up late at night, he's decent for the role he plays but he can absolutely be upgraded on.
Originally posted by jreff22:
We currently have a probowl TE

We currently have 0 probowl WR's

LOL. Of course, everyone knows that Pro-Bowl wide receivers only show up in the 1st round, specifically the last few picks of the 1st round, that's where you find the true studs at, better to go for a WR that will be 3rd, 4th or 5th on the depth chart due to a "need" than go for the best player available and draft for need later on down the draft, seeing as the difference between WR's in the late 1st and the late 3rd is minimal compared to the difference in TE's or even other positions.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by jreff22:
We currently have a probowl TE

We currently have 0 probowl WR's

LOL. Of course, everyone knows that Pro-Bowl wide receivers only show up in the 1st round, specifically the last few picks of the 1st round, that's where you find the true studs at, better to go for a WR that will be 3rd, 4th or 5th on the depth chart due to a "need" than go for the best player available and draft for need later on down the draft, seeing as the difference between WR's in the late 1st and the late 3rd is minimal compared to the difference in TE's or even other positions.

We have draft how many WR's the past few years.....how many made the probowl with us?

6 17 182 Ronald Johnson WR USC
6 37 206 Kyle Williams WR Arizona State
1 10 10 Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech
6 8 174 Josh Morgan WR 6-1 215 Virginia Tech
3 12 76 Jason Hill WR Washington State
3 84 Brandon Williams WR Wisconsin
538 (174)Rasheed Marshall WR West Virginia
79 (223)Marcus Maxwell WR Oregon
Round 1, Pick 31: Rashaun Woods
Round 3, Pick 14: Derrick Hamilton
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
When? Seriously, go back through the games this season and see how many times Delanie was getting locked down by a single safety. If he was a WR he'd be mediocre at best. He's still only 6 foot tall so when it comes to TE's, that is one easy cover for a safety to make. The times Delanie breaks free its going up against a linebacker and those are far and few between. The way teams defend Walker you can't defend a guy like Fleener because you will get burnt. You can't just throw a single safety on a 6'6" guy with 4.5 speed and call it a day, won't happen.


The idea is that you have multiple threats that a defense has to respect. Walker is not a guy that is keeping defensive coordinators up late at night, he's decent for the role he plays but he can absolutely be upgraded on.

This is what you claim but it doesn't mean that he can't beat a safety. You bringing up his 6'0 doesn't mean that he can't beat a safety. Most safeties are around 6' -6'3, some are even under 6'. There are only 2 safety on defense so if like you say they put a safety on Walker and 1 on VD, our receivers are 1 on 1. But wait we don't have a big, fast WR to beat the CB outright or use his size and body position for a jump ball. We need a WR more than a TE.
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