Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
I'm pretty sure Greg Roman loves Delanie Walker, but I hear your points above loud and clear.

You're assuming that. The guy was suitable for what they wanted to do, but do you really think that they wouldn't look at someone if they could thought that individual could do significantly better. Walker's going to be a free agent after this season and I don't see him coming back, I don't see the 49ers making an extra push to bring him back, why? He's a decent blocker, he can't create separation, he can make catches when put up against a linebacker but a single safety can shut him down, if you can improve, why not?

Opinions... different.

You undervalue Walker, and you obviously think I overvalue Walker.

You overvalue Fleener, and you obviously think I undervalue Fleener.

It's OK man. We're cool.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
are you just saying this because it's what you're reading online? I've watched Fleener the last two seasons and he's not as bad as you're making him out to be as a blocker. Is he at the level of Vernon Davis as far as blocking? Hell no. Shoot, Vernon was considered a pretty bad blocker in college and developed very well when he got here. Do you honestly think he won't get better as a blocker? I almost guarantee, with this coaching staff, he'll progress as a blocker.

This. The whole blocking thing is overrated. He did okay in college, nobody seriously claims that he's a bad blocker, just that he has a lot of room to improve.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Mayock knows his s**t.

Except Mayock has never said that Fleener was "an awful blocker", that's just that smoke-screen b******t from some random scout that a couple of writers in Milwaukee supposedly interviewed.

"Ability wise, he's a second-rounder." - Mike Mayock

I'm going to the gym.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Opinions... different.

You undervalue Walker, and you obviously think I overvalue Walker.

You overvalue Fleener, and you obviously think I undervalue Fleener.

It's OK man. We're cool.

Undervalue nothing, Delanie Walker is what he is, an under-sized h-back playing TE, that's a fact, not an opinion.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Opinions... different.

You undervalue Walker, and you obviously think I overvalue Walker.

You overvalue Fleener, and you obviously think I undervalue Fleener.

It's OK man. We're cool.

Undervalue nothing, Delanie Walker is what he is, an under-sized h-back playing TE, that's a fact, not an opinion.

You never give up do you? You are guessing about Fleener just like everyone else. Including myself!

Gym time.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
"Ability wise, he's a second-rounder." - Mike Mayock

I'm going to the gym.

And? Mayock has said that Fleener needs to improve his blocking, on the NFL Network he said that Fleener does a solid job but needs to develop more strength and bulk up to be a better blocker in the NFL. I haven't heard anything similar regarding the almost hysterical "OMG HE'S AN AWFUL BLOCKER" that was heard from some anonymous scout that for what anyone knows might be with the Colts or the Giants or some other team picking a little bit later on.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Mayock knows his s**t.

I'm a fan of Mayock's and yes, he knows his s**t. However, he tends to fall in love with hype and then he bashes others that have hype. For example, he's a HUGE Stephen Hill fan. Despite some of the flaws that Hill might have, like not having enough experience running routes or dropping some passes, he thinks Hill is a 1st rounder. I'm a Hill fan too, but let's face it, before the 40 time, he was a 2nd rounder.

Now with Fleener, we have a guy that's got good size as a tight end, an end zone threat, played in a pro style system, a willing blocker, runs good routes, good guy off the field, but Mayock doesn't think he's a "killer". What's that supposed to mean? The guy can be coached to becoming a better blocker.

SI's Peter King "doesn't see" the Giants selecting Stanford TE Coby Fleener with the 32nd overall pick.
"Not with Mike Pope on that staff," King wrote on Twitter. New York is a popular mock-draft landing spot for Fleener, but Pope -- widely considered one of the NFL's best position coaches -- wants his tight ends to be able to block. Blocking is Fleener's weakness. We still like Fleener's chances of going in the first round, but the Giants may not consider him a schematic fit.

Anyone taking anything Peter King has to say seriously at this time of year is setting themselves up for failure. This is the same guy who fully believes that the 49ers are also going after Weeden. So many smoke screens and BS out there that I don't buy into any of this stuff. I doubt the Giants would have a problem picking Fleener on the basis of his blocking......the explosive element he could bring to an already explosive offense would more than make up for it.

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Mayock knows his s**t.

I'm a fan of Mayock's and yes, he knows his s**t. However, he tends to fall in love with hype and then he bashes others that have hype. For example, he's a HUGE Stephen Hill fan. Despite some of the flaws that Hill might have, like not having enough experience running routes or dropping some passes, he thinks Hill is a 1st rounder. I'm a Hill fan too, but let's face it, before the 40 time, he was a 2nd rounder.

Now with Fleener, we have a guy that's got good size as a tight end, an end zone threat, played in a pro style system, a willing blocker, runs good routes, good guy off the field, but Mayock doesn't think he's a "killer". What's that supposed to mean? The guy can be coached to becoming a better blocker.

Coached up.....what was Jim & Co. doing with him at Stanford?

Originally posted by jreff22:
Coached up.....what was Jim & Co. doing with him at Stanford?

He did fine blocking in college, at a college level, the reasons that there are questions about his blocking is that he'll have to handle much bigger players in the NFL....so he adds some weight and further refines his blocking with more coaching.....

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Coached up.....what was Jim & Co. doing with him at Stanford?

He did fine blocking in college, at a college level, the reasons that there are questions about his blocking is that he'll have to handle much bigger players in the NFL....so he adds some weight and further refines his blocking with more coaching.....

Some guys can add weight and some cant. Every persons frame is different and if you add 15-20 lbs on him you run the chance of losing speed.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Mayock knows his s**t.

I'm a fan of Mayock's and yes, he knows his s**t. However, he tends to fall in love with hype and then he bashes others that have hype. For example, he's a HUGE Stephen Hill fan. Despite some of the flaws that Hill might have, like not having enough experience running routes or dropping some passes, he thinks Hill is a 1st rounder. I'm a Hill fan too, but let's face it, before the 40 time, he was a 2nd rounder.

Now with Fleener, we have a guy that's got good size as a tight end, an end zone threat, played in a pro style system, a willing blocker, runs good routes, good guy off the field, but Mayock doesn't think he's a "killer". What's that supposed to mean? The guy can be coached to becoming a better blocker.

Coached up.....what was Jim & Co. doing with him at Stanford?

Developing him into what he is today. You don't think he'll gain strength and knowledge learning an NFL playbook?

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Mayock knows his s**t.

I'm a fan of Mayock's and yes, he knows his s**t. However, he tends to fall in love with hype and then he bashes others that have hype. For example, he's a HUGE Stephen Hill fan. Despite some of the flaws that Hill might have, like not having enough experience running routes or dropping some passes, he thinks Hill is a 1st rounder. I'm a Hill fan too, but let's face it, before the 40 time, he was a 2nd rounder.

Now with Fleener, we have a guy that's got good size as a tight end, an end zone threat, played in a pro style system, a willing blocker, runs good routes, good guy off the field, but Mayock doesn't think he's a "killer". What's that supposed to mean? The guy can be coached to becoming a better blocker.

I don't get this... Hill caught what, 49 passes and 9 TD's over 3 years. That's something like 16 catches and 3 TDs a year. Fleener caught 96 passes and 18 tds over 4 years for an average of 24 catches and 4.5 TDs a year. Hell, last year Fleener caught 2X TDs to Hills 1...

Originally posted by jreff22:
Some guys can add weight and some cant. Every persons frame is different and if you add 15-20 lbs on him you run the chance of losing speed.

You do realize that one of the reasons that Fleener is ranked ahead of Allen is that Fleener can still add mass to his frame while Allen is basically maxxed out. At 6'6" Fleener has plenty of room to add some more mass without significantly affecting his speed.

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Mayock knows his s**t.

I'm a fan of Mayock's and yes, he knows his s**t. However, he tends to fall in love with hype and then he bashes others that have hype. For example, he's a HUGE Stephen Hill fan. Despite some of the flaws that Hill might have, like not having enough experience running routes or dropping some passes, he thinks Hill is a 1st rounder. I'm a Hill fan too, but let's face it, before the 40 time, he was a 2nd rounder.

Now with Fleener, we have a guy that's got good size as a tight end, an end zone threat, played in a pro style system, a willing blocker, runs good routes, good guy off the field, but Mayock doesn't think he's a "killer". What's that supposed to mean? The guy can be coached to becoming a better blocker.

Coached up.....what was Jim & Co. doing with him at Stanford?

Developing him into what he is today. You don't think he'll gain strength and knowledge learning an NFL playbook?

Its pretty much the same playbook with a few changes. Jim didnt rewrite his philosophy becuase he is in NFL.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Mayock knows his s**t.

I'm a fan of Mayock's and yes, he knows his s**t. However, he tends to fall in love with hype and then he bashes others that have hype. For example, he's a HUGE Stephen Hill fan. Despite some of the flaws that Hill might have, like not having enough experience running routes or dropping some passes, he thinks Hill is a 1st rounder. I'm a Hill fan too, but let's face it, before the 40 time, he was a 2nd rounder.

Now with Fleener, we have a guy that's got good size as a tight end, an end zone threat, played in a pro style system, a willing blocker, runs good routes, good guy off the field, but Mayock doesn't think he's a "killer". What's that supposed to mean? The guy can be coached to becoming a better blocker.

I don't get this... Hill caught what, 49 passes and 9 TD's over 3 years. That's something like 16 catches and 3 TDs a year. Fleener caught 96 passes and 18 tds over 4 years for an average of 24 catches and 4.5 TDs a year. Hell, last year Fleener caught 2X TDs to Hills 1...

Damn. This tells me that neither are worthy of a first round pick.

Might as well get a guard or an OLB at # 30 theen a backup TE