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If we get an Offensive Lineman via FA...

Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by 228niner:
Yea this years free agency is going to heavily affect our draft, we need to be on that phone at midnite and i for one am praying for a new cba so we can have more fa's to choose from

That's key. No CBA agreement and we can forget any real impressive free agents.

when is the deadline for the cba?
Signing Pashos might be the best approach as a short-term fix. He didn't do well in his brief stint, but the dude hardly new the playbook before he was pressed in to service. With a full training camp, he should be an upgrade over Snyder.
[ Edited by GoFD74 on Dec 28, 2009 at 11:56 PM ]
Originally posted by krizay:
I for the life of me don't understand why people seem to think we need to draft a RT in the 1st round. If RT is the best player available at the time and we select. So be it. But it's not a must. Can still get quality guys in the 2nd and 3rd.

Agree!

McClueless passed up on De Sean Jackson 2x.... would you rather have Jackson or Chilo Rachel?

Also passed up on Eddie Royal.
Originally posted by TDNiners:
Originally posted by krizay:
I for the life of me don't understand why people seem to think we need to draft a RT in the 1st round. If RT is the best player available at the time and we select. So be it. But it's not a must. Can still get quality guys in the 2nd and 3rd.

Agree!

McClueless passed up on De Sean Jackson 2x.... would you rather have Jackson or Chilo Rachel?

Also passed up on Eddie Royal.

I wanted either of those 2 guys and we took freaking Chilo. UGHHHHHHHHH. If Spiller is on the board we better not pass on him.
If we can get quality RT in the 2nd and 3rd rounds WHY haven't we done it???

I don't think we can. I say get the best RT or LT we can and be done with it. I think Staley owuld be an excellent RT. This has been going on for years. Fix the lines and everything else will get better. Running lanes will open up, more passes will be completed because of more time to throw and we'll win more games.

We get a very fast Spiller, who in my heart I'd love to have, and he still has no holes to run through and we're back to crying in our Chardonnay.
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
If we can get quality RT in the 2nd and 3rd rounds WHY haven't we done it???

I don't think we can. I say get the best RT or LT we can and be done with it. I think Staley owuld be an excellent RT. This has been going on for years. Fix the lines and everything else will get better. Running lanes will open up, more passes will be completed because of more time to throw and we'll win more games.

We get a very fast Spiller, who in my heart I'd love to have, and he still has no holes to run through and we're back to crying in our Chardonnay.

How can you say there aren't any holes to run in this offense? We're the 8th best team in the league in terms of rushing average (4.4 ypa), 10th in terms of rushes of more than 20 yards (12) and tied for 3rd in terms of rushes of more than 40 yards (4). So we may not pound the ball as well as we'd like, but this offense has shown the ability to break the long run on a pretty consistent basis. It's a big-play run game as opposed to a grind-it-out style.

The real problem is, we're last in rushing attempts...so it's not like we CAN'T rush the ball, we just don't rush the ball ENOUGH!

Gore doesn't have much by way of pure speed (never really has), but he seems to break enough long runs every year to keep most of us happy....can you imagine what a guy like Spiller, with his speed, could do???
[ Edited by GoFD74 on Dec 29, 2009 at 10:42 AM ]
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
If we can get quality RT in the 2nd and 3rd rounds WHY haven't we done it???

I don't think we can. I say get the best RT or LT we can and be done with it. I think Staley owuld be an excellent RT. This has been going on for years. Fix the lines and everything else will get better. Running lanes will open up, more passes will be completed because of more time to throw and we'll win more games.

We get a very fast Spiller, who in my heart I'd love to have, and he still has no holes to run through and we're back to crying in our Chardonnay.

How can you say there aren't any holes to run in this offense? We're the 8th best team in the league in terms of rushing average (4.4 ypa), 10th in terms of rushes of more than 20 yards (12) and tied for 3rd in terms of rushes of more than 40 yards (4). So we may not pound the ball as well as we'd like, but this offense has shown the ability to break the long run on a pretty consistent basis. It's a big-play run game as opposed to a grind-it-out style.

The real problem is, we're last in rushing attempts...so it's not like we CAN'T rush the ball, we just don't rush the ball ENOUGH!

Gore doesn't have much by way of pure speed (never really has), but he seems to break enough long runs every year to keep most of us happy....can you imagine what a guy like Spiller, with his speed, could do???

The problem as I see it is were not consistent in rushing. By that I mean we fall flat for 12 plays then bust a good run, fall flat again, then bust a few more decent runs which inflates the numbers. I am all for Spiller (if Berry doesn't fall) but to be honest a new LG and RT are a must....and good depth at OG in case Chilo continues to suck next year.

I still hope Mankins finds his was to SF next year.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
If we can get quality RT in the 2nd and 3rd rounds WHY haven't we done it???

I don't think we can. I say get the best RT or LT we can and be done with it. I think Staley owuld be an excellent RT. This has been going on for years. Fix the lines and everything else will get better. Running lanes will open up, more passes will be completed because of more time to throw and we'll win more games.

We get a very fast Spiller, who in my heart I'd love to have, and he still has no holes to run through and we're back to crying in our Chardonnay.

How can you say there aren't any holes to run in this offense? We're the 8th best team in the league in terms of rushing average (4.4 ypa), 10th in terms of rushes of more than 20 yards (12) and tied for 3rd in terms of rushes of more than 40 yards (4). So we may not pound the ball as well as we'd like, but this offense has shown the ability to break the long run on a pretty consistent basis. It's a big-play run game as opposed to a grind-it-out style.

The real problem is, we're last in rushing attempts...so it's not like we CAN'T rush the ball, we just don't rush the ball ENOUGH!

Gore doesn't have much by way of pure speed (never really has), but he seems to break enough long runs every year to keep most of us happy....can you imagine what a guy like Spiller, with his speed, could do???

The problem as I see it is were not consistent in rushing. By that I mean we fall flat for 12 plays then bust a good run, fall flat again, then bust a few more decent runs which inflates the numbers. I am all for Spiller (if Berry doesn't fall) but to be honest a new LG and RT are a must....and good depth at OG in case Chilo continues to suck next year.

I still hope Mankins finds his was to SF next year.

Totally agree that the consistency isn't there...but the question becomes, is that the fault of the o-line, the predictability of the offense/play-calling, mediocre QB play or all of the above? I mean, they've obviously shown the ability to open up holes for Gore, and Frank has taken plenty of those for long runs, but they haven't maintained that through an entire game. Why is that???

I think what's happening here goes beyond just the quality of the line play. In fact, I think to just change personnel and not address other issues (painful predictiability of the play-calling, antiquated line-blocking scheme, QB play, etc.) would be a huge mistake. It's more of a systemic thing, IMO.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
If we can get quality RT in the 2nd and 3rd rounds WHY haven't we done it???

I don't think we can. I say get the best RT or LT we can and be done with it. I think Staley owuld be an excellent RT. This has been going on for years. Fix the lines and everything else will get better. Running lanes will open up, more passes will be completed because of more time to throw and we'll win more games.

We get a very fast Spiller, who in my heart I'd love to have, and he still has no holes to run through and we're back to crying in our Chardonnay.

How can you say there aren't any holes to run in this offense? We're the 8th best team in the league in terms of rushing average (4.4 ypa), 10th in terms of rushes of more than 20 yards (12) and tied for 3rd in terms of rushes of more than 40 yards (4). So we may not pound the ball as well as we'd like, but this offense has shown the ability to break the long run on a pretty consistent basis. It's a big-play run game as opposed to a grind-it-out style.

The real problem is, we're last in rushing attempts...so it's not like we CAN'T rush the ball, we just don't rush the ball ENOUGH!

Gore doesn't have much by way of pure speed (never really has), but he seems to break enough long runs every year to keep most of us happy....can you imagine what a guy like Spiller, with his speed, could do???

The problem as I see it is were not consistent in rushing. By that I mean we fall flat for 12 plays then bust a good run, fall flat again, then bust a few more decent runs which inflates the numbers. I am all for Spiller (if Berry doesn't fall) but to be honest a new LG and RT are a must....and good depth at OG in case Chilo continues to suck next year.

I still hope Mankins finds his was to SF next year.

I agree.

Plus, I really dont think you can count on the stats to say how good our run game was. 3 games with a rookie RB in the beginning of the season, plus a couple other games(Green Bay and Houston) when the run game was thrown out because the team went down 20 in the first half.

The Jags and Seahawks games were the two games that the coaching staff chose to stop running. The others were mostly dictated by the situations in the actual games.

The thing that IS clear as day, though, is that our RBs will run 3-4 times and either get dropped for a loss or just barely back to the LOS. Then out of nowhere Gore will break a huge run that all of a sudden pads the stats and seems to hide the weakness in the OL. Most of Gore's big games were not because he was gaining chunks of yardage on every play. They were mostly runs that were stuffed with an occassional break out run.

I think the line can get better, but I also think that one or two positions need to be looked at for an upgrade. Unfortunately, I think the easiest way to do that would be to get a guard in free agency, move Staley back to RT, and start Sims at LT. Staley's contract probably keeps the Niners from doing that though.
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
If we can get quality RT in the 2nd and 3rd rounds WHY haven't we done it???

I don't think we can. I say get the best RT or LT we can and be done with it. I think Staley owuld be an excellent RT. This has been going on for years. Fix the lines and everything else will get better. Running lanes will open up, more passes will be completed because of more time to throw and we'll win more games.

We get a very fast Spiller, who in my heart I'd love to have, and he still has no holes to run through and we're back to crying in our Chardonnay.

How can you say there aren't any holes to run in this offense? We're the 8th best team in the league in terms of rushing average (4.4 ypa), 10th in terms of rushes of more than 20 yards (12) and tied for 3rd in terms of rushes of more than 40 yards (4). So we may not pound the ball as well as we'd like, but this offense has shown the ability to break the long run on a pretty consistent basis. It's a big-play run game as opposed to a grind-it-out style.

The real problem is, we're last in rushing attempts...so it's not like we CAN'T rush the ball, we just don't rush the ball ENOUGH!

Gore doesn't have much by way of pure speed (never really has), but he seems to break enough long runs every year to keep most of us happy....can you imagine what a guy like Spiller, with his speed, could do???

The problem as I see it is were not consistent in rushing. By that I mean we fall flat for 12 plays then bust a good run, fall flat again, then bust a few more decent runs which inflates the numbers. I am all for Spiller (if Berry doesn't fall) but to be honest a new LG and RT are a must....and good depth at OG in case Chilo continues to suck next year.

I still hope Mankins finds his was to SF next year.

Totally agree that the consistency isn't there...but the question becomes, is that the fault of the o-line, the predictability of the offense/play-calling, mediocre QB play or all of the above? I mean, they've obviously shown the ability to open up holes for Gore, and Frank has taken plenty of those for long runs, but they haven't maintained that through an entire game. Why is that???

I think what's happening here goes beyond just the quality of the line play. In fact, I think to just change personnel and not address other issues (painful predictiability of the play-calling, antiquated line-blocking scheme, QB play, etc.) would be a huge mistake. It's more of a systemic thing, IMO.

1. Fire the OL coach
2. Raye needs to get more creative
3. New personnel for the line
4. We need to sustain drives to wear out the D, thus making the line have a easier job
5. Speed on the O
While anything is possible, I simply see it incredibly unlikely the team will throw money at another FA RT in 2010, or hand the reigns to a guy injured from 2009.

I think the Niners see Michael Oher every week, and wish they would have had two first rounders in 2009. He was supposedly on their board right under Crabtree.

The Niners have gone the Harris, Jennings, Sims, Pashos cycle of vets, some in free agency who have rotated through the RT spot. I think the Niners want to be a long-term solution with a rookie from Day One, and I'd lay heavy money that they select a RT with their first first rounder, even if it is a reach.

I am a believer in the BPA philosophy, but the Niners understand that they have to get stability and protection for Alex Smith on the OL if they want him to progress to the next level.

One final note: One option that the team would probably never embrace, would be starting Sims at LT and moving Staley at RT. Sims, for some very odd reason, plays at a much higher level at LT than RT.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
While anything is possible, I simply see it incredibly unlikely the team will throw money at another FA RT in 2010, or hand the reigns to a guy injured from 2009.

I think the Niners see Michael Oher every week, and wish they would have had two first rounders in 2009. He was supposedly on their board right under Crabtree.

The Niners have gone the Harris, Jennings, Sims, Pashos cycle of vets, some in free agency who have rotated through the RT spot. I think the Niners want to be a long-term solution with a rookie from Day One, and I'd lay heavy money that they select a RT with their first first rounder, even if it is a reach.

I am a believer in the BPA philosophy, but the Niners understand that they have to get stability and protection for Alex Smith on the OL if they want him to progress to the next level.

One final note: One option that the team would probably never embrace, would be starting Sims at LT and moving Staley at RT. Sims, for some very odd reason, plays at a much higher level at LT than RT.

Do you really feel that a ROT is a no-go in the 2nd round? Passing (best case scenario) up a Berry Spiller round 1 would be VERY difficult.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
While anything is possible, I simply see it incredibly unlikely the team will throw money at another FA RT in 2010, or hand the reigns to a guy injured from 2009.

I think the Niners see Michael Oher every week, and wish they would have had two first rounders in 2009. He was supposedly on their board right under Crabtree.

The Niners have gone the Harris, Jennings, Sims, Pashos cycle of vets, some in free agency who have rotated through the RT spot. I think the Niners want to be a long-term solution with a rookie from Day One, and I'd lay heavy money that they select a RT with their first first rounder, even if it is a reach.

I am a believer in the BPA philosophy, but the Niners understand that they have to get stability and protection for Alex Smith on the OL if they want him to progress to the next level.

One final note: One option that the team would probably never embrace, would be starting Sims at LT and moving Staley at RT. Sims, for some very odd reason, plays at a much higher level at LT than RT.

Do you really feel that a ROT is a no-go in the 2nd round? Passing (best case scenario) up a Berry Spiller round 1 would be VERY difficult.

If we're picking in the teens, there's no way Berry makes to either of our picks. I know stranger things have happened, but this ain't gonna be one of em.
Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
While anything is possible, I simply see it incredibly unlikely the team will throw money at another FA RT in 2010, or hand the reigns to a guy injured from 2009.

I think the Niners see Michael Oher every week, and wish they would have had two first rounders in 2009. He was supposedly on their board right under Crabtree.

The Niners have gone the Harris, Jennings, Sims, Pashos cycle of vets, some in free agency who have rotated through the RT spot. I think the Niners want to be a long-term solution with a rookie from Day One, and I'd lay heavy money that they select a RT with their first first rounder, even if it is a reach.

I am a believer in the BPA philosophy, but the Niners understand that they have to get stability and protection for Alex Smith on the OL if they want him to progress to the next level.

One final note: One option that the team would probably never embrace, would be starting Sims at LT and moving Staley at RT. Sims, for some very odd reason, plays at a much higher level at LT than RT.

Do you really feel that a ROT is a no-go in the 2nd round? Passing (best case scenario) up a Berry Spiller round 1 would be VERY difficult.

If we're picking in the teens, there's no way Berry makes to either of our picks. I know stranger things have happened, but this ain't gonna be one of em.

I'm just giving an extreme example
All we have to do is remember passing up on DeShaun Jackson for Kentwan Balmer and Chilo Rachal. There is no way in Gods Green Earth the Niners should focus on any position in this draft, we absolutely better get the best playmaker/athlete possible no matter what position he plays.

I will absolutely eat my vommit if the Niners draft out of need this year.
We have an awesome opportunity to add at least 3-5 "playmakers" to the team next year, and with this deep draft coming up there will be no more excuses.