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Sanchez vs Stafford

Sanchez will be better because the Lions will always suck
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Originally posted by King49er:
Sanchez will be better because the Lions will always suck



The Bobby Layne curse is over so the Lions can be winners again!
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.

I think what the RichmondPete is referring too is, several high profile USC players have failed to live up to their expectations at the the next level recently. Leinart was just one of them. Mike Williams and Jarret are well know busts. Reggie Bush (though I don't consider him a bust by any standard) has failed to live up to his billing as well. Winston Justice is another such player who was supposed to get drafted in top 10, then fell to second round and is a bust today. Many USC players have fallen in the draft itself because of poor preparations for combine.

There is a growing sentiment in the league, that several players coming out of USC are not as focused on football as they should be. I remember hearing this on ESPN a while back, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

If there is one example of failure, then you can brush it aside, but when several high profile players from one program turn out to be busts year after year - NFL takes notice of that. Florida WRs had such notoriety, QBs coached by Tedford were looked at the same way. With Aaron Rodgers' success that may change quickly and it will with couple of superstars coming out of USC.

Wow.. those comments go back many months but RichmondPete was speaking specifically of USC Qbs and not all USC players. The only USC QB that I can remember who was considered a real top NFL prospect that has not delivered is Matt Leinart. Thats it. It is just stupid to judge all future USC Qbs based on his failure. He had very limited arm strength.

There will always be busts in the NFL but unless there is a pattern of failure after failure its just ridiculous to shy away from a player because of the school he went to.
if you ask me it's like comparing Smith and Rodgers.
I think both could be successes given good surroundings. I watched some of the Sanchez tape and he seems to have a Tom Brady like coolness to him. But then I watched the tape on Stafford and his arm strength is second to pretty much no one in the NFL and plays a little like a young favre.
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Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.

I think what the RichmondPete is referring too is, several high profile USC players have failed to live up to their expectations at the the next level recently. Leinart was just one of them. Mike Williams and Jarret are well know busts. Reggie Bush (though I don't consider him a bust by any standard) has failed to live up to his billing as well. Winston Justice is another such player who was supposed to get drafted in top 10, then fell to second round and is a bust today. Many USC players have fallen in the draft itself because of poor preparations for combine.

There is a growing sentiment in the league, that several players coming out of USC are not as focused on football as they should be. I remember hearing this on ESPN a while back, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

If there is one example of failure, then you can brush it aside, but when several high profile players from one program turn out to be busts year after year - NFL takes notice of that. Florida WRs had such notoriety, QBs coached by Tedford were looked at the same way. With Aaron Rodgers' success that may change quickly and it will with couple of superstars coming out of USC.

Wow.. those comments go back many months but RichmondPete was speaking specifically of USC Qbs and not all USC players. The only USC QB that I can remember who was considered a real top NFL prospect that has not delivered is Matt Leinart. Thats it. It is just stupid to judge all future USC Qbs based on his failure. He had very limited arm strength.

There will always be busts in the NFL but unless there is a pattern of failure after failure its just ridiculous to shy away from a player because of the school he went to.

My bad, didn't notice this discussion took place a while ago. The thread recently got bumped and I thought your discussion with RichmondPete was a recent one.

Regardless of that, QB is a part of offense and the fact that USC hasn't produced a great offensive player in several years is worrisome. USC has had pretty good offense during their current reign and it is very surprising many of them have failed to live up to their expectations and in many cases - the reason for failure is, - they are not focused and dedicated to the game of football.

Many make their fall in the draft process itself. John David Booty is a good example of that. Though he was never considered an elite QB, but his combine and workouts were very poor. I already talked about Winston Justice and Jarrett. Turner is another player who was the no.1 recruit out of high school and though he showed a lot of talent and ability and at times played well, he too fizzled in workouts and in college itself.

In Sanchez, I don't see a great QB, but I see a good one - but there is no question that when it comes to offensive players from USC, there is a growing sentiment in the NFL that many players come in the league with wrong attitude. Again, all it takes is one superstar or a pro-bowler to erase that sentiment.

Defense is a whole another story. USC keeps churning out very good players.
Originally posted by boomer49er:
Originally posted by adrenaline:
Originally posted by Icelandic49er:
I have serious questions about Stafford decision making though as he does not hesitate to throw the ball into coverage. But he´s got the arm but that isnt everything and to be honest im not that impressed with Stafford overall.

Would be nice to know how MadDog and Boomer rate these two players!

view their top draft boards

Stafford has the better arm, it's really strong. Sanchez has a nice arm too, but it's not rare. Stafford is a better athlete, but Sanchez isn't far behind. Stafford is a lot bigger and does a great job breaking out of sacks (a lot like Big Ben), I haven't seen that from Sanchez. Stafford has better mechanics and a much faster release. Sanchez gets sloppy and has what I consider a slow release. Stafford is great at reading the field and getting the ball out, and with his great release he drops backa dn the ball is out on time. He also doesn't need to see an open receiver to have the confidence to let it go knowing the receiver will come open before it gets there, which is a must in the NFL. Stafford has accuracy issues, especially on the long ball which he tends to overthrow, which is still better than the underthrows I saw on the Sanchez film.

So basically you have a big athletic QB in Stafford who reads defenses well and has a great release and elite arm strength but still has issues with his accuracy Vs. a guy in Sanchez who still has work to do in terms of mechanics and the mental aspect of the game.

To go along with this, Stafford has far more game experience than Sanchez.

I think Stafford is ready to come to the NFL and win games now, and I don't think he's going to get his spirit or confidence broken with a rough start for a bad team, he's pretty confident in his abilities.

Sanchez has never really experienced a rough time in term of performance and when that happens in the NFL I'm not sure what might happen, coule go any direction.

When you compare these guys to Matt Ryan however, it's not very close. The only question I had on Ryan was his football IQ because of some dumb choices I had seen him make in terms of clock managment and field general stuff, but he either fixed those, or I overstated them. Ryan was really an ideal prospect.

Although it doesnt have to do with the niners anymore - I still wanted to keep this thread near the surface as evidence against all of the sanchez dissenters... With how much time I put into defending picking him at #10 last year, Im not gonna miss out on my inevitable opportunity to say 'I told you so!!!!'

Not a bad first week for a rookie QB who has major issues with his release and in the mental aspect of the game was it???

The kid is gonna be a Stud and has already been dubbed 'Sanchize' by his teammates - I love being right...
Dirty Sanchez FTW, he's been placed into a much better situation than the other guy...
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It will be interesting to see how Stafford plays out because the situation he finds himself in is not too disimilar to what Smith found himself in with the 49ers in 2005, in terms of the team being low on overall talent (Not quite sure who was worse the 04/05 Niners or the 08/09 Lions??).
Originally posted by Stuuk:
It will be interesting to see how Stafford plays out because the situation he finds himself in is not too disimilar to what Smith found himself in with the 49ers in 2005, in terms of the team being low on overall talent (Not quite sure who was worse the 04/05 Niners or the 08/09 Lions??).

04/05 49ers were much worse IMO
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Originally posted by 9rFan84:
Originally posted by Stuuk:
It will be interesting to see how Stafford plays out because the situation he finds himself in is not too disimilar to what Smith found himself in with the 49ers in 2005, in terms of the team being low on overall talent (Not quite sure who was worse the 04/05 Niners or the 08/09 Lions??).

04/05 49ers were much worse IMO

Yep. We just barely inched out a couple of wins.

But at least Stafford has a legit WR on the team.
... and sanchez continues to impress - anytime the dissenters want to admit they were wrong would be fine - nobody will hold it against you.



Stafford was impressive as well... Today's performances are what make me feel that these two guys are better prospects than anybody that will be available next year.
Originally posted by abowers1984:
... and sanchez continues to impress - anytime the dissenters want to admit they were wrong would be fine - nobody will hold it against you.



Stafford was impressive as well... Today's performances are what make me feel that these two guys are better prospects than anybody that will be available next year.

imo stafford>sanchez as a Qb sanchez has all day to throw the ball and the D is winning games for him (not that he is not doing a good job because he is) stafford has to get rid of the ball quickly and their D is probally one of the worst in nfl history
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
... and sanchez continues to impress - anytime the dissenters want to admit they were wrong would be fine - nobody will hold it against you.



Stafford was impressive as well... Today's performances are what make me feel that these two guys are better prospects than anybody that will be available next year.

imo stafford>sanchez as a Qb sanchez has all day to throw the ball and the D is winning games for him (not that he is not doing a good job because he is) stafford has to get rid of the ball quickly and their D is probally one of the worst in nfl history

Thats quite a statement regarding Detroit's defense. Worst in NFL history? Hell,, they have had to play the high flying Saints on the road yet there are still 5 teams in 2009 that have given up more points and yards. Detroit is not as bad as many think and better overall than at least 3 -4 teams in the league right now.

As far as Stafford being better than Sanchez.... well pretty hard to downgrade Sanchez when he has his team 3-0 and has one of the best QB ratings on 3rd down in the league. I admit I liked Stafford a bit more on draft day but would have been estatic if the Niners had drafted either.
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
As much as I do not trust 1 year sensations it definatly does not help that Sanchez is from USC. It seems like every year a QB from USC is getting drooled on by the media and then fails to deliver.

Not true.

Besides Palmer name one that has lived up to the billing

Name one with huge expectations that hasn't lived up to the billing other than Matt Leinart. You can play this game with any school. Like I mentioned earlier.. are you going to judge Colt McCoy next year because Vince Young has sucked? Are you going to list all of the QB busts in history and then eliminate those schools where they attended?

Your comment is juvenile and nonsensical. With your logic Peyton Manning should not have been drafted first because he followed the huge bust Heath Shuler who was drafted #3 in the draft, went to Tennessee, and was out of the league in a couple of years. In fact, in 2008 ESPN listed him as the 4th biggest draft bust of all time. I guess Indy is pretty lucky they didnt follow your flawed logic.

I think what the RichmondPete is referring too is, several high profile USC players have failed to live up to their expectations at the the next level recently. Leinart was just one of them. Mike Williams and Jarret are well know busts. Reggie Bush (though I don't consider him a bust by any standard) has failed to live up to his billing as well. Winston Justice is another such player who was supposed to get drafted in top 10, then fell to second round and is a bust today. Many USC players have fallen in the draft itself because of poor preparations for combine.

There is a growing sentiment in the league, that several players coming out of USC are not as focused on football as they should be. I remember hearing this on ESPN a while back, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

If there is one example of failure, then you can brush it aside, but when several high profile players from one program turn out to be busts year after year - NFL takes notice of that. Florida WRs had such notoriety, QBs coached by Tedford were looked at the same way. With Aaron Rodgers' success that may change quickly and it will with couple of superstars coming out of USC.

Wow.. those comments go back many months but RichmondPete was speaking specifically of USC Qbs and not all USC players. The only USC QB that I can remember who was considered a real top NFL prospect that has not delivered is Matt Leinart. Thats it. It is just stupid to judge all future USC Qbs based on his failure. He had very limited arm strength.

There will always be busts in the NFL but unless there is a pattern of failure after failure its just ridiculous to shy away from a player because of the school he went to.

My bad, didn't notice this discussion took place a while ago. The thread recently got bumped and I thought your discussion with RichmondPete was a recent one.

Regardless of that, QB is a part of offense and the fact that USC hasn't produced a great offensive player in several years is worrisome. USC has had pretty good offense during their current reign and it is very surprising many of them have failed to live up to their expectations and in many cases - the reason for failure is, - they are not focused and dedicated to the game of football.

Many make their fall in the draft process itself. John David Booty is a good example of that. Though he was never considered an elite QB, but his combine and workouts were very poor. I already talked about Winston Justice and Jarrett. Turner is another player who was the no.1 recruit out of high school and though he showed a lot of talent and ability and at times played well, he too fizzled in workouts and in college itself.

In Sanchez, I don't see a great QB, but I see a good one - but there is no question that when it comes to offensive players from USC, there is a growing sentiment in the NFL that many players come in the league with wrong attitude. Again, all it takes is one superstar or a pro-bowler to erase that sentiment.

Defense is a whole another story. USC keeps churning out very good players.

So because several USC offensive players have failed to live up to expectations, you've concluded that USC doesn't foster a positive attitude in its players? Stupid.