2016-2017 NBA FINALS: Cavs v. Warriors

Originally posted by crabman82:

I think missing shots they normally make was the turning point in last year's finals. The suspension probably prolonged the series to a 6th game. Beyond that I don't see any impact it had on the final 2 games. Still a make or miss league.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

The 1994 ecf was the Knicks and pacers

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

The 1994 ecf was the Knicks and pacers

Semi-conference. Won a playoff series and then came within a stupid foul by Pippen of beating the team that went to the NBA Finals. Point being, LeBron's teams without him playing have been atrocious and would be lucky to make it out of the lottery, even in the "Weak East" but MJ's team still won 55 games and a playoff series in "toughest era in basketball" his team was LOADED, period

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

The 1994 ecf was the Knicks and pacers

Semi-conference. Won a playoff series and then came within a stupid foul by Pippen of beating the team that went to the NBA Finals. Point being, LeBron's teams without him playing have been atrocious and would be lucky to make it out of the lottery, even in the "Weak East" but MJ's team still won 55 games and a playoff series in "toughest era in basketball" his team was LOADED, period

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

Erik Spoelstra is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

LeBron runs the show wherever he goes. You cant suggest the GM isnt making the right moves, because LeBron tells him what to do. He literally orchestrated the Wiggins/Love trade. Hes had multiple coaches replaced. Hes in charge of his entire team, and he still cries when they lose, and points the finger at someone else.

LeBron tells the GM what to do NOW. His first 7 years was not like that. His GM was more interested in aging players and expiring contracts than he was for building a team around his cash cow. Wiggins/Love trade was just that, a trade. Minnesota wasn't going anywhere with Love as the first option so they got a talent that was projected to be a superstar while CLE had no reason to hold on to Wiggins because he played the same position as LeBron and they needed a PF. That was smart and they were building to beat SA. GS however took over the West that year and Draymond creates a problem for Love. Who has he pointed the finger at when he loses?

Spoelstra is not one of the best coaches in the league lol he's not even top 3 in the East!

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

The 1994 ecf was the Knicks and pacers

Semi-conference. Won a playoff series and then came within a stupid foul by Pippen of beating the team that went to the NBA Finals. Point being, LeBron's teams without him playing have been atrocious and would be lucky to make it out of the lottery, even in the "Weak East" but MJ's team still won 55 games and a playoff series in "toughest era in basketball" his team was LOADED, period

Instead of putting 2 exclamation points at the end of ecf in your original comment, use that time to look it up and make sure what you're saying is actually accurate.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

Erik Spoelstra is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

LeBron runs the show wherever he goes. You cant suggest the GM isnt making the right moves, because LeBron tells him what to do. He literally orchestrated the Wiggins/Love trade. Hes had multiple coaches replaced. Hes in charge of his entire team, and he still cries when they lose, and points the finger at someone else.

LeBron tells the GM what to do NOW. His first 7 years was not like that. His GM was more interested in aging players and expiring contracts than he was for building a team around his cash cow. Wiggins/Love trade was just that, a trade. Minnesota wasn't going anywhere with Love as the first option so they got a talent that was projected to be a superstar while CLE had no reason to hold on to Wiggins because he played the same position as LeBron and they needed a PF. That was smart and they were building to beat SA. GS however took over the West that year and Draymond creates a problem for Love. Who has he pointed the finger at when he loses?

Spoelstra is not one of the best coaches in the league lol he's not even top 3 in the East!

He might win coach of the year this year. How many active NBA coaches went to the Finals 4 straight years? You can say that was all LeBron, but then youd have to say the same for Phil Jackson. When's the last time a coach besides Spoelstra even went to 4 straight Finals? Its been a few decades.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Those Knicks and Pacers teams would have washed the Raptors and Celtics. You cant be serious.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
You just love to make these statements dont you. EVERY player/coach. LOL You dont think winning games gives a team confidence and builds momentum? You dont believe that winning Game 5 after Draymonds suspension gave the Cavs a feeling that they could really win the series? Did you ever play sports at all because I would think that if you did you would understand how winning breeds confidence which builds momentum for a team.

Confidence and/or momentum from winning a game is short lived at best. Momentum can be changed multiple times during a game...hell it can change with couple of plays.

You need confidence to win. Winning just validates what you're doing is right but doesn't guarantee or makes it more likely that you'll win next time.

I'm sorry I'm not in HOF of all 3 sports like you but hard work and preparation builds real long lasting confidence...and this is true in any profession.

Just 2 sports for me and close to HOF status.. I played enough in several sports beyond just baseball and basketball though to know how you can build confidence and momentum and how it can carry over. . Of course it doesnt guarantee a win. But it does give a team much more of a likelihood for success.

Bottom line is you dont want to admit that Draymond's suspension was the key turning point in the series and without that happening it is unlikely the Cavs come back to win. I get it.. you are the ultimate Lebron fanboy and would never think otherwise. But as for the momentum argument. you are so far off that I am done with this.

lol right. Yes, please move on from the lame excuses.

Like I said.. you wont admit that the suspension had anything to do with the series outcome. Now, that is lame. Like I also said, no excuses for Game 7. I give Cleveland all the credit in the world for that win and have never faulted the refs. But for anyone to actually not admit that the suspension was key is fricking stupid. But, no surprise coming from the #1 Lebron fanboy in the world.

Uhh so now you're basically agreeing with me. I said - it made difference in game 5 but not in game 6 and 7. Series outcome wasn't decided in game 5. Warriors still had the control of the series. They won game 6 in 2015 in Cleveland.

lol @ calling me a fanboy. That's all you can respond with. Sometimes I feel I'm talking to a post-millennial than a grown man.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

Erik Spoelstra is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

LeBron runs the show wherever he goes. You cant suggest the GM isnt making the right moves, because LeBron tells him what to do. He literally orchestrated the Wiggins/Love trade. Hes had multiple coaches replaced. Hes in charge of his entire team, and he still cries when they lose, and points the finger at someone else.

LeBron tells the GM what to do NOW. His first 7 years was not like that. His GM was more interested in aging players and expiring contracts than he was for building a team around his cash cow. Wiggins/Love trade was just that, a trade. Minnesota wasn't going anywhere with Love as the first option so they got a talent that was projected to be a superstar while CLE had no reason to hold on to Wiggins because he played the same position as LeBron and they needed a PF. That was smart and they were building to beat SA. GS however took over the West that year and Draymond creates a problem for Love. Who has he pointed the finger at when he loses?

Spoelstra is not one of the best coaches in the league lol he's not even top 3 in the East!

He might win coach of the year this year. How many active NBA coaches went to the Finals 4 straight years? You can say that was all LeBron, but then youd have to say the same for Phil Jackson. When's the last time a coach besides Spoelstra even went to 4 straight Finals? Its been a few decades.

The moment LeBron took two other HCs to the Finals after that ended that discussion. Who else did Kobe or MJ get to the Finals with? Nobody...LeBron has taken 4 different coaches to the NBA Finals. Huge difference. Spoelstra has made the playoffs 1 time in 3 years since LeBron left and that's in the "weak East"

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

Erik Spoelstra is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

LeBron runs the show wherever he goes. You cant suggest the GM isnt making the right moves, because LeBron tells him what to do. He literally orchestrated the Wiggins/Love trade. Hes had multiple coaches replaced. Hes in charge of his entire team, and he still cries when they lose, and points the finger at someone else.

LeBron tells the GM what to do NOW. His first 7 years was not like that. His GM was more interested in aging players and expiring contracts than he was for building a team around his cash cow. Wiggins/Love trade was just that, a trade. Minnesota wasn't going anywhere with Love as the first option so they got a talent that was projected to be a superstar while CLE had no reason to hold on to Wiggins because he played the same position as LeBron and they needed a PF. That was smart and they were building to beat SA. GS however took over the West that year and Draymond creates a problem for Love. Who has he pointed the finger at when he loses?

Spoelstra is not one of the best coaches in the league lol he's not even top 3 in the East!

He might win coach of the year this year. How many active NBA coaches went to the Finals 4 straight years? You can say that was all LeBron, but then youd have to say the same for Phil Jackson. When's the last time a coach besides Spoelstra even went to 4 straight Finals? Its been a few decades.

The moment LeBron took two other HCs to the Finals after that ended that discussion. Who else did Kobe or MJ get to the Finals with? Nobody...LeBron has taken 4 different coaches to the NBA Finals. Huge difference. Spoelstra has made the playoffs 1 time in 3 years since LeBron left and that's in the "weak East"

How many of those finals appearances did LeBron lose compared to Kobe and MJ.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Those Knicks and Pacers teams would have washed the Raptors and Celtics. You cant be serious.

Yes...that's exactly what I said since Lebron has faced Raptors and Celtics of 2017 every year for the last 7 years

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Should I have used the Atlanta Hawks as an example instead? The Pacers? FOH. I dont understand why Cavs/Bron fans have such a hard time admitting that the East is trash.

I am a Warriors fan, and have no problem admitting that we are a dominant team but this era is arguably the worst NBA I have seen in my lifetime.

Just because one thing is true, doesnt mean something else isnt or that it takes away from something else. Bron can be an all time great and his competition can be trash at the same time.