2016-2017 NBA FINALS: Cavs v. Warriors

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Yes I said there is no excuse for Game 7. But I do not believe for a second that Cleveland wins Game 5 or 3 in a row without the suspension. That is where we differ. Game 7.. absolutley not excuses or blame on the refs. If anything I blame Harrison Barnes.

As for the fanboy comment.. well you are pretty obsessed with Lebron. You arent even a fan of a team but only of James.

Considering Cavs won game 3 and 6 wire to wire with Draymond in the lineup and Game 7 on the road - you've to be super biased to say Cavs had no chance in game 5 with Draymond. Makes no sense.

Lebron haters are more obsessed with Lebron than his fans. And not sure why you're obsessed with who I root for. That's just weird and no reason to talk like a teenager.

Originally posted by crabman82:

The 1994 ecf was the Knicks and pacers

Both those teams had shots at being multiple champions. They hated MJ

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Semi-conference. Won a playoff series and then came within a stupid foul by Pippen of beating the team that went to the NBA Finals. Point being, LeBron's teams without him playing have been atrocious and would be lucky to make it out of the lottery, even in the "Weak East" but MJ's team still won 55 games and a playoff series in "toughest era in basketball" his team was LOADED, period

It was a defensive team with am excellent HC. I don't know how many all-stars that team had aside from Pippen. Was it Kukoc or BJ Armstrong for a year. I just know they didn't have 3 and 4 All-stars on the team until MJ came back and they added Rodman or before he left and they had Horace Grant. I don't recall there being many all-stars during the time MJ left unless you count Phil Jackson

KD going to join the Cavs once Lebron denies him for another title

Originally posted by 4ML:

90s was an expansion era and basketball was not very popular in Europe. Knicks and Pacers weren't any better than some of the teams Lebron has faced in last 7 years in Eastern Conf. They were 1 star team surrounded by complimentary pieces. I was a huge Reggie Miller fan...I know how "talented" they were.

Btw...still pissed about refs Calling off a clear Travis Best's 3pointer late in game 7. Can't believe they missed that call.

The nineties had street rules and a ton of HOF players and coaches that lost to CHI. International players and all seem cool now with the league adapting more international rules but to me I liked it the way the game was in the 90s. All these pull up 3s we see now and the diminishing of the big man's influence on the game was subdued then so that we could see more teams like the Pacers and Knicks that were defensive oriented ruling the day. Bumps bruises and elbows were the order of the day and I loved it.

If you came from overseas to play here you'd better sport a tough chin as well because you're going to have to play through the physicality because the refs had to take a back seat in most instances

Originally posted by Knowledge:

KD going to join the Cavs once Lebron denies him for another title

LOL. I don't think KD would try to join a champion defending the title. GS losing gave him an in as well as the fit in GS money and play style. I am over KD doing what he knew was best for him and his family. I know some hate it but that's the game now. Players do what they want to do

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by 4ML:
90s was an expansion era and basketball was not very popular in Europe. Knicks and Pacers weren't any better than some of the teams Lebron has faced in last 7 years in Eastern Conf. They were 1 star team surrounded by complimentary pieces. I was a huge Reggie Miller fan...I know how "talented" they were.

Btw...still pissed about refs Calling off a clear Travis Best's 3pointer late in game 7. Can't believe they missed that call.

The nineties had street rules and a ton of HOF players and coaches that lost to CHI. International players and all seem cool now with the league adapting more international rules but to me I liked it the way the game was in the 90s. All these pull up 3s we see now and the diminishing of the big man's influence on the game was subdued then so that we could see more teams like the Pacers and Knicks that were defensive oriented ruling the day. Bumps bruises and elbows were the order of the day and I loved it.

If you came from overseas to play here you'd better sport a tough chin as well because you're going to have to play through the physicality because the refs had to take a back seat in most instances

No way. As much as I'm not a fan of some players / teams taking all these extra 3s, the game is much more enjoyable now. Before it was just a free throw fest. The game looks better now with the extra ball movement and guys able to show of their athleticism around the rim without having to worry about getting cross checked on a dunk.

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

No way. As much as I'm not a fan of some players / teams taking all these extra 3s, the game is much more enjoyable now. Before it was just a free throw fest. The game looks better now with the extra ball movement and guys able to show of their athleticism around the rim without having to worry about getting cross checked on a dunk.

Yes it's just personal preference. I myself just grew up playing multiple sports in my neighbourhood amongst friends family enemies and outsiders. There was a level of hatred during competition that oftentimes boiled over on the court. This is what I am drawn to and what I miss about 80s and 90s ball. You just don't have little guys jack up threes without getting jacked up. The big boys ruled the day and if you're a little guy you'd better earn your striped by both taking and dishing out that beating.

I realise that the game has changed for the betterment of the players fans and sponsors but I just miss that true hatred amongst players and fans. The let em play attitude on the court where nearly anything goes. For me it added something to the game and made even the fans knuckle up over the contests

But as we know the NBA as it was just wasn't sustainable and it had to change. I do believe we have more of the world playing and interested but when I tell my 15 year old nephew what the game was he looks at me as if I was crazy. He'll never know but I remember. Aw well I can still enjoy this new basketball too because I look and I can see that it's a very hard job to succeed at today

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Those Knicks and Pacers teams would have washed the Raptors and Celtics. You cant be serious.

Yes...that's exactly what I said since Lebron has faced Raptors and Celtics of 2017 every year for the last 7 years

Should I have used the Atlanta Hawks as an example instead? The Pacers? FOH. I dont understand why Cavs/Bron fans have such a hard time admitting that the East is trash.

I am a Warriors fan, and have no problem admitting that we are a dominant team but this era is arguably the worst NBA I have seen in my lifetime.

Just because one thing is true, doesnt mean something else isnt or that it takes away from something else. Bron can be an all time great and his competition can be trash at the same time.

You're obsessed with Lebron. My argument has nothing to do with Lebron. 20 years from now - if the game continues to grow - it will be better than it is today. It is natural progression. This happens in every sport and in every field.

It is common sense that if you add teams to the league...you'll have players in the league who should have been cut.

Executives and coaches and legends like Larry Bird said during the 90s that the league is watered down. Commentators at half time show were saying the same thing - "Jordan/Bulls aren't facing any real competition." It just wasn't drilled in our head 24-7.

Imagine if NBA adds 6 more teams in the next 8 years...

Do you think Cavs and Warriors will have more competition or less?

It's not a trick question.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan always had Pippen. He didn't go recruit him and his buddies to band together like LeBron.

Jordan had to get through a real Eastern conference to get to the Finals. LeBron's path to the Finals has been a bunch of cupcakes this last decade.

If you had seen Jordan play, youd know why this isn't even a debate.

Free Agency wasn't even close to being as big back then as it is now. MJ also played in a major market city with a GM willing to bring in vital pieces and a HC that is considered one of the best...the exact opposite was true for LeBron when he left for MIA. Then he came back to CLE and what buddies did he recruit? His GM saw what he was capable of doing with some help in MIA and got with the program like he should've done before but he didn't think he would leave. Nobody did that's why his owner was so damn butt hurt over how The Decision played out.

MJs team was so stacked they won 55 games without him in 94! Then went to a game 7 in the ECF!! None of that will/have happen with these teams LeBron has been on.

Erik Spoelstra is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

LeBron runs the show wherever he goes. You cant suggest the GM isnt making the right moves, because LeBron tells him what to do. He literally orchestrated the Wiggins/Love trade. Hes had multiple coaches replaced. Hes in charge of his entire team, and he still cries when they lose, and points the finger at someone else.

LeBron tells the GM what to do NOW. His first 7 years was not like that. His GM was more interested in aging players and expiring contracts than he was for building a team around his cash cow. Wiggins/Love trade was just that, a trade. Minnesota wasn't going anywhere with Love as the first option so they got a talent that was projected to be a superstar while CLE had no reason to hold on to Wiggins because he played the same position as LeBron and they needed a PF. That was smart and they were building to beat SA. GS however took over the West that year and Draymond creates a problem for Love. Who has he pointed the finger at when he loses?

Spoelstra is not one of the best coaches in the league lol he's not even top 3 in the East!

He might win coach of the year this year. How many active NBA coaches went to the Finals 4 straight years? You can say that was all LeBron, but then youd have to say the same for Phil Jackson. When's the last time a coach besides Spoelstra even went to 4 straight Finals? Its been a few decades.

The moment LeBron took two other HCs to the Finals after that ended that discussion. Who else did Kobe or MJ get to the Finals with? Nobody...LeBron has taken 4 different coaches to the NBA Finals. Huge difference. Spoelstra has made the playoffs 1 time in 3 years since LeBron left and that's in the "weak East"

Thats a retarded argument. Jordan and Kobe spent the entire primes of their careers playing for Phil Jackson. If they had left their teams mid prime and grabbed a couple superstar friends to go play with elsewhere, they wouldve taken other coaches to the Finals.

Around the league Spoelstra is known as one of the very best. He just got no credit because of LeBron.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Thats a retarded argument. Jordan and Kobe spent the entire primes of their careers playing for Phil Jackson. If they had left their teams mid prime and grabbed a couple superstar friends to go play with elsewhere, they wouldve taken other coaches to the Finals.

Around the league Spoelstra is known as one of the very best. He just got no credit because of LeBron.

Well...they did play for other coaches...and they didn't need to go anywhere to get more stars...they had them on their roster.

Jordan and Kobe both threatened to leave their teams if they didn't get better roster around them.

As for Spols, he's a fine coach. I like him. He's no Phil Jackson.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Thats a retarded argument. Jordan and Kobe spent the entire primes of their careers playing for Phil Jackson. If they had left their teams mid prime and grabbed a couple superstar friends to go play with elsewhere, they wouldve taken other coaches to the Finals.

Around the league Spoelstra is known as one of the very best. He just got no credit because of LeBron.

Well...they did play for other coaches...and they didn't need to go anywhere to get more stars...they had them on their roster.

Jordan and Kobe both threatened to leave their teams if they didn't get better roster around them.

As for Spols, he's a fine coach. I like him. He's no Phil Jackson.

Heres a question, what if Jerry Sloan had coached the 1991-1998 Bulls, and the 2000-2010 Lakers? How many rings does he have?

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Yes I said there is no excuse for Game 7. But I do not believe for a second that Cleveland wins Game 5 or 3 in a row without the suspension. That is where we differ. Game 7.. absolutley not excuses or blame on the refs. If anything I blame Harrison Barnes.

As for the fanboy comment.. well you are pretty obsessed with Lebron. You arent even a fan of a team but only of James.

Considering Cavs won game 3 and 6 wire to wire with Draymond in the lineup and Game 7 on the road - you've to be super biased to say Cavs had no chance in game 5 with Draymond. Makes no sense.

Lebron haters are more obsessed with Lebron than his fans. And not sure why you're obsessed with who I root for. That's just weird and no reason to talk like a teenager.

Lol. Is this still going on? Who's winning?

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Thats a retarded argument. Jordan and Kobe spent the entire primes of their careers playing for Phil Jackson. If they had left their teams mid prime and grabbed a couple superstar friends to go play with elsewhere, they wouldve taken other coaches to the Finals.

Around the league Spoelstra is known as one of the very best. He just got no credit because of LeBron.

Well...they did play for other coaches...and they didn't need to go anywhere to get more stars...they had them on their roster.

Jordan and Kobe both threatened to leave their teams if they didn't get better roster around them.

As for Spols, he's a fine coach. I like him. He's no Phil Jackson.

He doesn't have to be Phil Jackson but what he has accomplished is very impressive and the turnaround his team did this year was pretty amazing.