Run stuffing DT

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Monsterniner:

Originally posted by Since07:
DJ Jones or Buckner would be nice right now this is why you don't let players like that go. DJ wouldn't have broke the bank and we extend Armstead over Buckner . If we can't plug the middle here soon we need to make a trade. This team is to good to try and play this out hoping someone will step up

Letting DJ walk still blows my mind because he was a really good 1T and he wasn't expensive. He haven't had anyone like him since then.

Jones was getting $6,000,000 a year and Denver bumped it up to $10,000,000. That was more Parage had in the budget plan at the time.

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:

Originally posted by dj43:
Jones was getting $6,000,000 a year and Denver bumped it up to $10,000,000. That was more Parage had in the budget plan at the time.

$10 mil is peanuts for a starting NT able to eat up double teams.

It was a bad decision letting him go.

THIS

We have paid way more in cash & draft picks trying to find his and Buckner's replacements on the DL.

Hurts thinking we gifted DJ and Huf to Denver. DJ on our DLine and Huf back there with Sigle would put our defense over the top. Talk about shutting down the run and laying the wood!

Couldn't care less about McGlinchey. Good riddance. lol.

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:
So did I & questioned if Kocurek really is this omnipotent coach. So many high level picks invested in the DL & yet all we have to show for it is Bosa. But everyone knew he would be a stud.

Well in defense of Kocurek, he's reconstituted some free agent mediocre veteran DLinemen's careers and helped them get a 2nd and 3rd contracts. Why cant he do that to some promising day two, day three, or undrafted rookies. Point being he had been able to develop DLinemen, which is a sign of a good DLine coach.

My hope is that guys like James Thompson and Sebastian Valdez are those hidden gems that only injuries seem to uncover during ShanaLynch's reign.

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:
So did I & questioned if Kocurek really is this omnipotent coach. So many high level picks invested in the DL & yet all we have to show for it is Bosa. But everyone knew he would be a stud.

It is a bit perplexing how he's been able to unlock the untapped potential of guys like Arik Armstead, Arden Key, Charles Omenihu, etc. but hasn't been able to develop one of their drafted players into a stud pass rusher. The only homegrown run stopper he's developed is DJ Jones.

It looks more like a talent evaluation issue to me. Kocurek is able to develop the guys he didn't pick but struggling to develop the ones they're drafting. Maybe Kocurek needs to be less involved in the draft process because he has seemingly cosigned for every single DL they've drafted. I remember him gushing over Kinlaw. This seems to be a prevalent issue across the entire team with coaches having way too much say in drafting players.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:
So did I & questioned if Kocurek really is this omnipotent coach. So many high level picks invested in the DL & yet all we have to show for it is Bosa. But everyone knew he would be a stud.

It is a bit perplexing how he's been able to unlock the untapped potential of guys like Arik Armstead, Arden Key, Charles Omenihu, etc. but hasn't been able to develop one of their drafted players into a stud pass rusher. The only homegrown run stopper he's developed is DJ Jones.

It looks more like a talent evaluation issue to me. Kocurek is able to develop the guys he didn't pick but struggling to develop the ones they're drafting. Maybe Kocurek needs to be less involved in the draft process because he has seemingly cosigned for every single DL they've drafted. This seems to be a prevalent issue across the entire team with coaches having way too much say in drafting players.

Shoot I would think it's tough not including your D-line coach when you're targeting D-line in the 1st or 2nd round. Whatever the case something during the draft process needs to change. Their track record of the D-line position is horrible at both the draft and you could argue free agency if you include Javon Hargrave in there.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Shoot I would think it's tough not including your D-line coach when you're targeting D-line in the 1st or 2nd round. Whatever the case something during the draft process needs to change. Their track record of the D-line position is horrible at both the draft and you could argue free agency if you include Javon Hargrave in there.

Im not saying that he shouldn't have a voice in the process. Of course he should. But he's openly pounded the table for some really bad pick(ie Kinlaw, Drake Jackson, etc) and got his wish at the expense of missing out on other awesome players. How about we let the talent evaluators do their thing and not position coaches? This applies to the entire organization.

Hargraves was good. Maliek Collins was good. The IDL play in the wide 9 is totally different discussion. This scheme destroys IDL over a season if you don't have dedicated run stoppers.

I am very concerned about our run defense this season. We were getting gashed on the ground against the Rams until McVay decided to get cute. Then we opened up a lead and it was hard to get back to it.

I can see Achane going for 150+ this weekend.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I am very concerned about our run defense this season. We were getting gashed on the ground against the Rams until McVay decided to get cute. Then we opened up a lead and it was hard to get back to it.

I can see Achane going for 150+ this weekend.

+1. Really hoping they add a quality run-stuffing DT, and via trade, if necessary. This defense otherwise as shown in the Rams game has good potential to be a top unit when you factor in having Warner & Bosa back plus adding Greenlaw (and Mykel back after three more games).

There's a spot open on the roster when Collins goes on season-ending IR and really hoping they add an impact run-stuffer. Gotta stop the run to be a top D.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Shoot I would think it's tough not including your D-line coach when you're targeting D-line in the 1st or 2nd round. Whatever the case something during the draft process needs to change. Their track record of the D-line position is horrible at both the draft and you could argue free agency if you include Javon Hargrave in there.

Im not saying that he shouldn't have a voice in the process. Of course he should. But he's openly pounded the table for some really bad pick(ie Kinlaw, Drake Jackson, etc) and got his wish at the expense of missing out on other awesome players. How about we let the talent evaluators do their thing and not position coaches? This applies to the entire organization.

Hargraves was good. Maliek Collins was good. The IDL play in the wide 9 is totally different discussion. This scheme destroys IDL over a season if you don't have dedicated run stoppers.

Injuries are a factor in Kinlaw and Jackson's development. I mean go back to Elijah Mitchell and all the injuries he sustained - very promising back, now a free agent and not on an NFL team. Again, whether you get a valuable starter or rotational player via draft or free agency - it really doesn't matter as long as Kocurek can turn them lemons into lemonade.

I think a bigger factor in the development of the DLine (and in fact many of the defensive players drafted) is simply the rotating Defensive Coordinators that we've had since 2019 when we lost Saleh. It's been a new defensive coordinator every year. No coaching stability there at all. To a certain extent Alfred and CJ West were drafted for a Saleh defense and the Wide 9, whereas the Raheem defense is still a 4-3 but not necessarily a Wide 9, and Raheem likes those tweener hybrid guys that can do multiple things instead of one thing - like what Saleh likes. (for example).

Originally posted by Giedi:
Injuries are a factor in Kinlaw and Jackson's development. I mean go back to Elijah Mitchell and all the injuries he sustained - very promising back, now a free agent and not on an NFL team. Again, whether you get a valuable starter or rotational player via draft or free agency - it really doesn't matter as long as Kocurek can turn them lemons into lemonade.

Maybe I'm biased because I didn't like either of those guys coming out of college. Everything I said about Kinlaw in college is exactly who he was in the NFL: stiff, linear athlete with poor pad level, nothing in bag but a bullrush and terrible hand technique/placement.

Drake Jackson was literally all projection. I thought he was more of a cover LB than an actual guy you'd want at end being a force player and rushing the passer.

I think a bigger factor in the development of the DLine (and in fact many of the defensive players drafted) is simply the rotating Defensive Coordinators that we've had since 2019 when we lost Saleh. It's been a new defensive coordinator every year. No coaching stability there at all. To a certain extent Alfred and CJ West were drafted for a Saleh defense and the Wide 9, whereas the Raheem defense is still a 4-3 but not necessarily a Wide 9, and Raheem likes those tweener hybrid guys that can do multiple things instead of one thing - like what Saleh likes. (for example).

They've been playing the base wide 9 since 2019. This isn't a factor. From Saleh and Demeco to Wilks and Morris, it's the same one-gap attacking 9t-3t-2i-9t alignment that it's been for 7 years with Kris Kocurek at the helm. In fact, this is the part of the defense that's had the most continuity. That's the crazy irony.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Maybe I'm biased because I didn't like either of those guys coming out of college. Everything I said about Kinlaw in college is exactly who he was in the NFL: stiff, linear athlete with poor pad level, nothing in bag but a bullrush and terrible hand technique/placement.

Drake Jackson was literally all projection. I thought he was more of a cover LB than an actual guy you'd want at end being a force player and rushing the passer.

I think a bigger factor in the development of the DLine (and in fact many of the defensive players drafted) is simply the rotating Defensive Coordinators that we've had since 2019 when we lost Saleh. It's been a new defensive coordinator every year. No coaching stability there at all. To a certain extent Alfred and CJ West were drafted for a Saleh defense and the Wide 9, whereas the Raheem defense is still a 4-3 but not necessarily a Wide 9, and Raheem likes those tweener hybrid guys that can do multiple things instead of one thing - like what Saleh likes. (for example).

They've been playing the base wide 9 since 2019. This isn't a factor. From Saleh and Demeco to Wilks and Morris, it's the same one-gap attacking 9t-3t-2i-9t alignment that it's been for 7 years with Kris Kocurek at the helm. In fact, this is the part of the defense that's had the most continuity. That's the crazy irony.

I don't watch college ball so to me, College scouting reports and pre-draft evaluations, I don't really put a lot of weight on. It's what they do in the NFL. Both Kinlaw and Drake Jackson haven't done much. That I agree with you on. Why they haven't done much - again I place injuries and changes and scheme as a factor. The fact that the 49ers have been a Wide 9 defense for a long time doesn't change the fact that the interpersonal relationships do change when a firey coach like Saleh leaves and a more measured coach like Raheem comes in. Everybody has a boss they liked and hated, and in a lot of instances your performance does changes depending on what kind of interpersonal relationships your boss has with you. So the same thing with the constant changes in Defensive coordinators in Kyle's regime.

Again, not disagreeing with you on the failed draft picks, but it isn't as simple as drafting a first round pick and automatically getting a all pro. We've seen how the 49ers get gems in the 3rd and 4th rounds all the time. And no, I don't have a solution as to how the 49ers can draft better either, just observations of what might have worked for them in the past.

It's the lack of proper development and bold FA moves that didn't pay off.

3T: Buckner -> Kinlaw -> Armstead (position swap) -> M. Collins -> Elliott/Collins -> Osa


0/1T: Mitchell -> Jones -> Givens -> Hargrave -> Elliott/Davis -> West


We got opportunistic and lucky with Osa given the scheme change the Cowboys did this offseason. Besides that, the succession from Buckner/Armstead/Jones to where we are now is horrific.

I need to see a larger sample size before I say this is a problem.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I am very concerned about our run defense this season. We were getting gashed on the ground against the Rams until McVay decided to get cute. Then we opened up a lead and it was hard to get back to it.

I can see Achane going for 150+ this weekend.

The 49ers were getting gashed until Halton was inserted. McVay and his cuteness had nothing to do with it. The gashing stopped once the 4th round pick entered. His name is Gracen Halton. By the end of this season, you will know this man's name. Achane won't be gashing anything.

We also don't have the cap space to bring in a high priced DT. We need the current cap to roll over next year.