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Will any of Jerry Rice's major records be broken? (From the front page)

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  • cciowa
  • Veteran
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but but but lloydrules told us back in the day. brandon lloyd would break all of his records and be so much better than rice. old school guys would remember that
Originally posted by five1oh:
With 17 game regular season, records will be broken sooner than later

Yep, single season record books will be rewritten and the 16 game records will be forgotten like the 14 game records.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/04/will-any-of-jerry-rices-major-records-be-broken/

This is a very interesting article!

It is crazy to think that a WR drafted in the 1980's is sitting at the top with all of the spread offense concepts, all out passing attacks, and rules changes that all support the passing game.

With that said, do you guys thinks that passing defenses have also gotten better due to the all out passing attacks? Could this be the reason JR's records haven't been threatened? DB's now get paid well, and pass rushers are almost paid like QB's.

Your Thoughts as to how a WR from the 1980's (our very own Jerry Rice) still sits at the top of all of the major receiving records and it's really not even close!

I think what benefits Rice the most is that as a rookie, he had an established QB in place that was producing. Then when that QB went away, there was another HoF QB that took over. Then when he left the 49ers, he played with an MVP QB (Gannon). So on top of being the best at his position, he played with top QBs his entire career.
His TD record is near untouchable. RBs can't play that long and WRs need to be with a top QB from beginning to end.

Good point about how defenses are better nowadays. There are known strategic ways to defend the WCO that in 1985, defenses were still adjusting to. The biggest change imo is the athleticism of today's LBs to defend the short area of the field. The early WCO feasted on slow LBs.

If Moss had Brady as long as Rice had Young and Montana it would already be Moss's record.
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/04/will-any-of-jerry-rices-major-records-be-broken/

This is a very interesting article!

It is crazy to think that a WR drafted in the 1980's is sitting at the top with all of the spread offense concepts, all out passing attacks, and rules changes that all support the passing game.

With that said, do you guys thinks that passing defenses have also gotten better due to the all out passing attacks? Could this be the reason JR's records haven't been threatened? DB's now get paid well, and pass rushers are almost paid like QB's.

Your Thoughts as to how a WR from the 1980's (our very own Jerry Rice) still sits at the top of all of the major receiving records and it's really not even close!

I think what benefits Rice the most is that as a rookie, he had an established QB in place that was producing. Then when that QB went away, there was another HoF QB that took over. Then when he left the 49ers, he played with an MVP QB (Gannon). So on top of being the best at his position, he played with top QBs his entire career.
His TD record is near untouchable. RBs can't play that long and WRs need to be with a top QB from beginning to end.

Good point about how defenses are better nowadays. There are known strategic ways to defend the WCO that in 1985, defenses were still adjusting to. The biggest change imo is the athleticism of today's LBs to defend the short area of the field. The early WCO feasted on slow LBs.

If Moss had Brady as long as Rice had Young and Montana it would already be Moss's record.

The defenses aren't better today and it's not because of the players. The rules allow WRs to run free and can't be bumped like they used to. You also didn't have the targeting rule so DBs could unload on receivers which made them afraid to go across the middle. Look at how offenses now use that to their advantage and use crossing routes. It's Kyle and Jimmy's go to route. If they tried that in the old days they would get pounded.
Originally posted by RishikeshA:
If Cal Ripkin can break Lou Gehrig's record, sure, any record can be broken.

There are plenty of un-breakable records. Joe DiMaggio's hit streak will never be broken. Cy Young's wins record will never be broken.

Jerry Rice's TD record is very unlikely to ever be broken. Nobody is even in the same stratosphere of his record, and with the game moving away from bell cow RB's, you aren't going to see players racking up 25+ TD seasons anymore. The scoring is going up, but its also dispersed between more guys in committees.

Rice had the single season receiving TD record with 22 in 12 games in 1987. Randy Moss broke it with 23 in 16 games in 2007. A WR would need NINE years worth of 23 TD seasons to match Rice. Good luck with that.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 20,250
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/04/will-any-of-jerry-rices-major-records-be-broken/

This is a very interesting article!

It is crazy to think that a WR drafted in the 1980's is sitting at the top with all of the spread offense concepts, all out passing attacks, and rules changes that all support the passing game.

With that said, do you guys thinks that passing defenses have also gotten better due to the all out passing attacks? Could this be the reason JR's records haven't been threatened? DB's now get paid well, and pass rushers are almost paid like QB's.

Your Thoughts as to how a WR from the 1980's (our very own Jerry Rice) still sits at the top of all of the major receiving records and it's really not even close!

I think what benefits Rice the most is that as a rookie, he had an established QB in place that was producing. Then when that QB went away, there was another HoF QB that took over. Then when he left the 49ers, he played with an MVP QB (Gannon). So on top of being the best at his position, he played with top QBs his entire career.
His TD record is near untouchable. RBs can't play that long and WRs need to be with a top QB from beginning to end.

Good point about how defenses are better nowadays. There are known strategic ways to defend the WCO that in 1985, defenses were still adjusting to. The biggest change imo is the athleticism of today's LBs to defend the short area of the field. The early WCO feasted on slow LBs.

If Moss had Brady as long as Rice had Young and Montana it would already be Moss's record.

The defenses aren't better today and it's not because of the players. The rules allow WRs to run free and can't be bumped like they used to. You also didn't have the targeting rule so DBs could unload on receivers which made them afraid to go across the middle. Look at how offenses now use that to their advantage and use crossing routes. It's Kyle and Jimmy's go to route. If they tried that in the old days they would get pounded.

I get what you're saying but when Walsh unleashed the WCO on the league, there really was a sense of, "wth is this offense and how do we defend it?". IMO that was a big advantage and it took years for LBs to get faster to help defend the short passing game. Sure LBs could unload on WRs coming across the middle back then, but how often did Joe lead Rice directly into a LB? Perhaps you remember better than I can, but I don't recall that happening very often.

IMO the biggest differences between defenses of the 80s and now is speed of the LBs and pattern match concepts, which is something speedier LBs are tasked to do (pattern match) and are better equipped to do because they can actually keep up with WRs in the short areas of the field.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/04/will-any-of-jerry-rices-major-records-be-broken/

This is a very interesting article!

It is crazy to think that a WR drafted in the 1980's is sitting at the top with all of the spread offense concepts, all out passing attacks, and rules changes that all support the passing game.

With that said, do you guys thinks that passing defenses have also gotten better due to the all out passing attacks? Could this be the reason JR's records haven't been threatened? DB's now get paid well, and pass rushers are almost paid like QB's.

Your Thoughts as to how a WR from the 1980's (our very own Jerry Rice) still sits at the top of all of the major receiving records and it's really not even close!

I think what benefits Rice the most is that as a rookie, he had an established QB in place that was producing. Then when that QB went away, there was another HoF QB that took over. Then when he left the 49ers, he played with an MVP QB (Gannon). So on top of being the best at his position, he played with top QBs his entire career.
His TD record is near untouchable. RBs can't play that long and WRs need to be with a top QB from beginning to end.

Good point about how defenses are better nowadays. There are known strategic ways to defend the WCO that in 1985, defenses were still adjusting to. The biggest change imo is the athleticism of today's LBs to defend the short area of the field. The early WCO feasted on slow LBs.

Do you remember what Steve Young looked like in Tampa Bay? Jeff Garcia?

I really think he made a QB's job easier.

His QB's came from big time programs compared to where he came from (Mississippi Valley State). He had to outwork everyone in order to make it and that propelled him into the best football player of all time.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/04/will-any-of-jerry-rices-major-records-be-broken/

This is a very interesting article!

It is crazy to think that a WR drafted in the 1980's is sitting at the top with all of the spread offense concepts, all out passing attacks, and rules changes that all support the passing game.

With that said, do you guys thinks that passing defenses have also gotten better due to the all out passing attacks? Could this be the reason JR's records haven't been threatened? DB's now get paid well, and pass rushers are almost paid like QB's.

Your Thoughts as to how a WR from the 1980's (our very own Jerry Rice) still sits at the top of all of the major receiving records and it's really not even close!

I think what benefits Rice the most is that as a rookie, he had an established QB in place that was producing. Then when that QB went away, there was another HoF QB that took over. Then when he left the 49ers, he played with an MVP QB (Gannon). So on top of being the best at his position, he played with top QBs his entire career.
His TD record is near untouchable. RBs can't play that long and WRs need to be with a top QB from beginning to end.

Good point about how defenses are better nowadays. There are known strategic ways to defend the WCO that in 1985, defenses were still adjusting to. The biggest change imo is the athleticism of today's LBs to defend the short area of the field. The early WCO feasted on slow LBs.

If Moss had Brady as long as Rice had Young and Montana it would already be Moss's record.

The defenses aren't better today and it's not because of the players. The rules allow WRs to run free and can't be bumped like they used to. You also didn't have the targeting rule so DBs could unload on receivers which made them afraid to go across the middle. Look at how offenses now use that to their advantage and use crossing routes. It's Kyle and Jimmy's go to route. If they tried that in the old days they would get pounded.

I get what you're saying but when Walsh unleashed the WCO on the league, there really was a sense of, "wth is this offense and how do we defend it?". IMO that was a big advantage and it took years for LBs to get faster to help defend the short passing game. Sure LBs could unload on WRs coming across the middle back then, but how often did Joe lead Rice directly into a LB? Perhaps you remember better than I can, but I don't recall that happening very often.

IMO the biggest differences between defenses of the 80s and now is speed of the LBs and pattern match concepts, which is something speedier LBs are tasked to do (pattern match) and are better equipped to do because they can actually keep up with WRs in the short areas of the field.

Great post!

I think exotic coverages, and D-linemen (especially DE's) that are just as fast or faster then RB's, and WR's are the biggest difference in todays defenders. LBers are indeed fast but remember Lawerence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, Derrick Brooks, Bobby Bell, etc..? Those were some of the fastest players at the LBer position and they all played back when the 49ers were doing their thing.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 20,250
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/04/will-any-of-jerry-rices-major-records-be-broken/

This is a very interesting article!

It is crazy to think that a WR drafted in the 1980's is sitting at the top with all of the spread offense concepts, all out passing attacks, and rules changes that all support the passing game.

With that said, do you guys thinks that passing defenses have also gotten better due to the all out passing attacks? Could this be the reason JR's records haven't been threatened? DB's now get paid well, and pass rushers are almost paid like QB's.

Your Thoughts as to how a WR from the 1980's (our very own Jerry Rice) still sits at the top of all of the major receiving records and it's really not even close!

I think what benefits Rice the most is that as a rookie, he had an established QB in place that was producing. Then when that QB went away, there was another HoF QB that took over. Then when he left the 49ers, he played with an MVP QB (Gannon). So on top of being the best at his position, he played with top QBs his entire career.
His TD record is near untouchable. RBs can't play that long and WRs need to be with a top QB from beginning to end.

Good point about how defenses are better nowadays. There are known strategic ways to defend the WCO that in 1985, defenses were still adjusting to. The biggest change imo is the athleticism of today's LBs to defend the short area of the field. The early WCO feasted on slow LBs.

Do you remember what Steve Young looked like in Tampa Bay? Jeff Garcia?

I really think he made a QB's job easier.

His QB's came from big time programs compared to where he came from (Mississippi Valley State). He had to outwork everyone in order to make it and that propelled him into the best football player of all time.

Steve Young was torn down and rebuilt for Walsh's system so the Tampa Bay Steve Young is nothing like 49er starter Steve Young. For sure Rice made the QB's job easier. A WR is still dependent on the QB's abilities and the offensive system, and in Rice's case he had both going for him, on top of being the best WR of all time.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 20,250
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/04/will-any-of-jerry-rices-major-records-be-broken/

This is a very interesting article!

It is crazy to think that a WR drafted in the 1980's is sitting at the top with all of the spread offense concepts, all out passing attacks, and rules changes that all support the passing game.

With that said, do you guys thinks that passing defenses have also gotten better due to the all out passing attacks? Could this be the reason JR's records haven't been threatened? DB's now get paid well, and pass rushers are almost paid like QB's.

Your Thoughts as to how a WR from the 1980's (our very own Jerry Rice) still sits at the top of all of the major receiving records and it's really not even close!

I think what benefits Rice the most is that as a rookie, he had an established QB in place that was producing. Then when that QB went away, there was another HoF QB that took over. Then when he left the 49ers, he played with an MVP QB (Gannon). So on top of being the best at his position, he played with top QBs his entire career.
His TD record is near untouchable. RBs can't play that long and WRs need to be with a top QB from beginning to end.

Good point about how defenses are better nowadays. There are known strategic ways to defend the WCO that in 1985, defenses were still adjusting to. The biggest change imo is the athleticism of today's LBs to defend the short area of the field. The early WCO feasted on slow LBs.

If Moss had Brady as long as Rice had Young and Montana it would already be Moss's record.

The defenses aren't better today and it's not because of the players. The rules allow WRs to run free and can't be bumped like they used to. You also didn't have the targeting rule so DBs could unload on receivers which made them afraid to go across the middle. Look at how offenses now use that to their advantage and use crossing routes. It's Kyle and Jimmy's go to route. If they tried that in the old days they would get pounded.

I get what you're saying but when Walsh unleashed the WCO on the league, there really was a sense of, "wth is this offense and how do we defend it?". IMO that was a big advantage and it took years for LBs to get faster to help defend the short passing game. Sure LBs could unload on WRs coming across the middle back then, but how often did Joe lead Rice directly into a LB? Perhaps you remember better than I can, but I don't recall that happening very often.

IMO the biggest differences between defenses of the 80s and now is speed of the LBs and pattern match concepts, which is something speedier LBs are tasked to do (pattern match) and are better equipped to do because they can actually keep up with WRs in the short areas of the field.

Great post!

I think exotic coverages, and D-linemen (especially DE's) that are just as fast or faster then RB's, and WR's are the biggest difference in todays defenders. LBers are indeed fast but remember Lawerence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, Derrick Brooks, Bobby Bell, etc..? Those were some of the fastest players at the LBer position and they all played back when the 49ers were doing their thing.

LTaylor, DThomas were freaks of their time, not to mention they were pass rushing more than dropping back in coverage. I was more referring to the "average" LBs found on most teams. Those 80s LBs had to evolve to become more athletic and less plodding to better defend the WCO.

No one is touching his receiving yards. That's just too difficult. Larry Fitzgerald has played 16 seasons and he's still five thousand yards behind.
There's no question that most of the rule changes in the last few years have benefitted the offense. Marino was the only guy that ever passed for 5000 yards in those days. There have been several since then. Same for receptions where players get 100 in a season way easier than in the 70's and 80's. Not only are the receivers way more protected but you can't even breathe on the QB. It's all designed to create more offense. I still think the biggest reason his TD record won't be broken is longevity. Not many players will play long enough because of financial or safety reasons. It's also unlikely that a receiver good enough would get to play most or all of his career with a QB and coach that were equally as good.
Originally posted by Hopper:
No one is touching his receiving yards. That's just too difficult. Larry Fitzgerald has played 16 seasons and he's still five thousand yards behind.

Rice is on the level of Gretzky and Jordan as athletes who are on a transcendent level of accomplishment that basically have no legit comparison. As much as LeBron fanboys love to compare him with Jordan, anyone who watched Jordan's career knows they're not on the same level.
Originally posted by WINiner:
Eventually yes.

I don't think so because the days of guys playing 15+ seasons are becoming few and far between.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by five1oh:
With 17 game regular season, records will be broken sooner than later

Yep, single season record books will be rewritten and the 16 game records will be forgotten like the 14 game records.


Truth

Add to that it's much more of a passing league now then when JR was playing.

Imagine the numbers he's be putting up if he were playing now w/all the rule changes benefiting offenses.
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