Week 14 - Broncos @ 49ers - Post Game Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:
Unfortunately, AZ may be in the driver's seat for #1. We have to hope they win in Atlanta this weekend.

Why? SOS would come down to our non-common opponents. TB and NYG have to suck worse than Atl (given the win over AZ) and Wash, not looking good for us. It could easily come down to Atl @ TB week 17, where we would need an Atl win. Again, not looking good right now.

IMO ATL is still the best team out of those 4. They have 3 winnable games (AZ, Carolina, and TB). NY has 3 teams all fighting for a playoff spot and got lucky beating a chase Daniels Bears and a Mark Sanchez skins team. They could easily go 0-3 (Titans, Colts, Cowboys).

I'm gonna call TB and DC a wash because I can't see either getting more than 6 wins rest of the season.

we got lucky with AZ playing ATL this week.

Better tell Atlanta. They've lost 5 straight and have admitted tanking, I mean, "going to a youth movement".

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol yup that week 14 win really changed the culture in that locker room...gonna go on a tear these last 3 weeks.

They are professional athletes. They get paid to compete not to lie down. I suspect a win means more to them than it does to "fans" who are obsessed with draft position. Patriots haven't had a high draft pick, except perhaps through trade, for almost two decades. They seem to do all right. If you want to gauge the value of a high draft pick according to this forum just go over to the Solomon Thomas or Reuben Foster threads, or the Mike McGlinchey thread. People were rapping on that pick from the moment it was made. Seems to me it has turned out pretty well so far. George Kittle was a fifth round pick, Breida was an undrafted free agent. With a few obvious exceptions, there is almost no way of knowing how a college player's game is going to translate into the NFL, they spend a lot of time playing against guys who will be going into different careers once they get out of college. The history of the NFL is littered with first round busts, every team has them. Like everyone else I am hoping that the team will be able to get a good edge rusher in the next draft but I also think that the team needs to compete in its final three games. If you let them lie down now you run the risk of losing them altogether. Not to free agency or anything like that but just in terms of their commitment to what you are trying to achieve. You don't need players who are just there to collect a check, you need guys who are committed to winning, which means you have to win sometimes even in a down season to keep them invested in the process and to let them know you are serious about what you are trying to accomplish otherwise why should they continue to put in the effort.

And we got Solomon Thomas instead of Myles Garrett so we could establish a winning culture. We instilled it so well, in fact, that it carried over into last season where we stormed out of the gate 1-10.

Myles Garrett was the first pick of the draft. How does taking Thomas at three equate with not taking Garrett who was already off the board?

If we are going to win games, lets win them in September, October, and November... The fact that we had two wins in December indicates that we suck. There is no logical reason to hope we continue to win games this late and with our record.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol yup that week 14 win really changed the culture in that locker room...gonna go on a tear these last 3 weeks.

They are professional athletes. They get paid to compete not to lie down. I suspect a win means more to them than it does to "fans" who are obsessed with draft position. Patriots haven't had a high draft pick, except perhaps through trade, for almost two decades. They seem to do all right. If you want to gauge the value of a high draft pick according to this forum just go over to the Solomon Thomas or Reuben Foster threads, or the Mike McGlinchey thread. People were rapping on that pick from the moment it was made. Seems to me it has turned out pretty well so far. George Kittle was a fifth round pick, Breida was an undrafted free agent. With a few obvious exceptions, there is almost no way of knowing how a college player's game is going to translate into the NFL, they spend a lot of time playing against guys who will be going into different careers once they get out of college. The history of the NFL is littered with first round busts, every team has them. Like everyone else I am hoping that the team will be able to get a good edge rusher in the next draft but I also think that the team needs to compete in its final three games. If you let them lie down now you run the risk of losing them altogether. Not to free agency or anything like that but just in terms of their commitment to what you are trying to achieve. You don't need players who are just there to collect a check, you need guys who are committed to winning, which means you have to win sometimes even in a down season to keep them invested in the process and to let them know you are serious about what you are trying to accomplish otherwise why should they continue to put in the effort.

And we got Solomon Thomas instead of Myles Garrett so we could establish a winning culture. We instilled it so well, in fact, that it carried over into last season where we stormed out of the gate 1-10.

Myles Garrett was the first pick of the draft. How does taking Thomas at three equate with not taking Garrett who was already off the board?

We had the #1 spot. We opted to develop a winning culture instead the last minute of Week 16. We finished culturing at 2-14.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol yup that week 14 win really changed the culture in that locker room...gonna go on a tear these last 3 weeks.

They are professional athletes. They get paid to compete not to lie down. I suspect a win means more to them than it does to "fans" who are obsessed with draft position. Patriots haven't had a high draft pick, except perhaps through trade, for almost two decades. They seem to do all right. If you want to gauge the value of a high draft pick according to this forum just go over to the Solomon Thomas or Reuben Foster threads, or the Mike McGlinchey thread. People were rapping on that pick from the moment it was made. Seems to me it has turned out pretty well so far. George Kittle was a fifth round pick, Breida was an undrafted free agent. With a few obvious exceptions, there is almost no way of knowing how a college player's game is going to translate into the NFL, they spend a lot of time playing against guys who will be going into different careers once they get out of college. The history of the NFL is littered with first round busts, every team has them. Like everyone else I am hoping that the team will be able to get a good edge rusher in the next draft but I also think that the team needs to compete in its final three games. If you let them lie down now you run the risk of losing them altogether. Not to free agency or anything like that but just in terms of their commitment to what you are trying to achieve. You don't need players who are just there to collect a check, you need guys who are committed to winning, which means you have to win sometimes even in a down season to keep them invested in the process and to let them know you are serious about what you are trying to accomplish otherwise why should they continue to put in the effort.

Which is why it is the coach's job to lose strategically. No different than when teams find ways to avoid player performance incentives. We have a creative OC but not so smart HC.

teamfirst
teamtank

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol yup that week 14 win really changed the culture in that locker room...gonna go on a tear these last 3 weeks.

They are professional athletes. They get paid to compete not to lie down. I suspect a win means more to them than it does to "fans" who are obsessed with draft position. Patriots haven't had a high draft pick, except perhaps through trade, for almost two decades. They seem to do all right. If you want to gauge the value of a high draft pick according to this forum just go over to the Solomon Thomas or Reuben Foster threads, or the Mike McGlinchey thread. People were rapping on that pick from the moment it was made. Seems to me it has turned out pretty well so far. George Kittle was a fifth round pick, Breida was an undrafted free agent. With a few obvious exceptions, there is almost no way of knowing how a college player's game is going to translate into the NFL, they spend a lot of time playing against guys who will be going into different careers once they get out of college. The history of the NFL is littered with first round busts, every team has them. Like everyone else I am hoping that the team will be able to get a good edge rusher in the next draft but I also think that the team needs to compete in its final three games. If you let them lie down now you run the risk of losing them altogether. Not to free agency or anything like that but just in terms of their commitment to what you are trying to achieve. You don't need players who are just there to collect a check, you need guys who are committed to winning, which means you have to win sometimes even in a down season to keep them invested in the process and to let them know you are serious about what you are trying to accomplish otherwise why should they continue to put in the effort.

This idea that people want the team to tank is nothing more than a straw man argument. I haven't seen one person be upset that the team itself played hard and the coaches coached well. You said nothing new to what anyone else has said. Its becoming clear that no one in here wants to actually prove why winning a game in a three win season is better than adding a player like Bosa. I've given so many examples as to how losing a lot of games has not hurt the development of our team. What did help was picking high and drafting talented players year after year.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol yup that week 14 win really changed the culture in that locker room...gonna go on a tear these last 3 weeks.

They are professional athletes. They get paid to compete not to lie down. I suspect a win means more to them than it does to "fans" who are obsessed with draft position. Patriots haven't had a high draft pick, except perhaps through trade, for almost two decades. They seem to do all right. If you want to gauge the value of a high draft pick according to this forum just go over to the Solomon Thomas or Reuben Foster threads, or the Mike McGlinchey thread. People were rapping on that pick from the moment it was made. Seems to me it has turned out pretty well so far. George Kittle was a fifth round pick, Breida was an undrafted free agent. With a few obvious exceptions, there is almost no way of knowing how a college player's game is going to translate into the NFL, they spend a lot of time playing against guys who will be going into different careers once they get out of college. The history of the NFL is littered with first round busts, every team has them. Like everyone else I am hoping that the team will be able to get a good edge rusher in the next draft but I also think that the team needs to compete in its final three games. If you let them lie down now you run the risk of losing them altogether. Not to free agency or anything like that but just in terms of their commitment to what you are trying to achieve. You don't need players who are just there to collect a check, you need guys who are committed to winning, which means you have to win sometimes even in a down season to keep them invested in the process and to let them know you are serious about what you are trying to accomplish otherwise why should they continue to put in the effort.

Which is why it is the coach's job to lose strategically. No different than when teams find ways to avoid player performance incentives. We have a creative OC but not so smart HC.

teamfirst
teamtank

I take it back you are the first one lol. Well I have to disagree.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

They are professional athletes. They get paid to compete not to lie down. I suspect a win means more to them than it does to "fans" who are obsessed with draft position. Patriots haven't had a high draft pick, except perhaps through trade, for almost two decades. They seem to do all right. If you want to gauge the value of a high draft pick according to this forum just go over to the Solomon Thomas or Reuben Foster threads, or the Mike McGlinchey thread. People were rapping on that pick from the moment it was made. Seems to me it has turned out pretty well so far. George Kittle was a fifth round pick, Breida was an undrafted free agent. With a few obvious exceptions, there is almost no way of knowing how a college player's game is going to translate into the NFL, they spend a lot of time playing against guys who will be going into different careers once they get out of college. The history of the NFL is littered with first round busts, every team has them. Like everyone else I am hoping that the team will be able to get a good edge rusher in the next draft but I also think that the team needs to compete in its final three games. If you let them lie down now you run the risk of losing them altogether. Not to free agency or anything like that but just in terms of their commitment to what you are trying to achieve. You don't need players who are just there to collect a check, you need guys who are committed to winning, which means you have to win sometimes even in a down season to keep them invested in the process and to let them know you are serious about what you are trying to accomplish otherwise why should they continue to put in the effort.

Dude throw a couple paragraphs in there...helps the eyes

Again people seem to not realize what I'm saying...nowhere am I stating the team (players) should or would tank. I've said this a dozen times already.

My posts are in regards to the fans rooting for a pointless win in week 14 over wanting this team to have the best possible chance at getting the best prospect in the draft, who happens to play a position of massive need.

A winning culture doesn't happen in week 14 when you're 2-10.

I don't expect any team in the NFL to lie over and tank...there's too much turnover and not enough guaranteed cash for players to do that. This is about what the FANS want and what I'm talking about.

Again, I'm looking at it logically not emotionally.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Lol yup that week 14 win really changed the culture in that locker room...gonna go on a tear these last 3 weeks.

Dont you think it would have mattered if we had a healthy QB all season?

Comeon dude.

Huh? What does this have to do with anything I've stated?? If we had our starting QB we wouldn't be 2-10 heading into week 14 thus NOT making this game a pointless win.

You're pushing the context of what is actually happening vs something that's a hypothetical situation.

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Better tell Atlanta. They've lost 5 straight and have admitted tanking, I mean, "going to a youth movement".

Who are they sitting for that youth movement? Hey cool with me! hope they lose to AZ then we don't have to worry about it.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:
Better tell Atlanta. They've lost 5 straight and have admitted tanking, I mean, "going to a youth movement".

Who are they sitting for that youth movement? Hey cool with me! hope they lose to AZ then we don't have to worry about it.

I realized after that I should have written, "Tell Atlanta on Monday." lol

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol yup that week 14 win really changed the culture in that locker room...gonna go on a tear these last 3 weeks.

Dont you think it would have mattered if we had a healthy QB all season?

Comeon dude.

Huh? What does this have to do with anything I've stated?? If we had our starting QB we wouldn't be 2-10 heading into week 14 thus NOT making this game a pointless win.

You're pushing the context of what is actually happening vs something that's a hypothetical situation.

It's because he knows he can't prove his side so he continues to straw man. Then other people come into this thread and rinse and repeat the idea that we are saying we want the TEAM themselves to tank when we are saying us as FANS want to tank. I swear I even think some of them might be alt accounts lol.

But I asked him multiple times what I wanted him to answer and he couldn't and tried to change the argument every single time. No problem with someone having a different mindset on this topic but its just unreal people agree with his opinion when he never said anything with evidence.

And he also said used an Ad Hominem to say that anyone who wants Bosa clearly has never played any sports. I guess my 11 years of football just never happened?

Originally posted by 49ers81:
They are professional athletes. They get paid to compete not to lie down. I suspect a win means more to them than it does to "fans" who are obsessed with draft position. Patriots haven't had a high draft pick, except perhaps through trade, for almost two decades. They seem to do all right. If you want to gauge the value of a high draft pick according to this forum just go over to the Solomon Thomas or Reuben Foster threads, or the Mike McGlinchey thread. People were rapping on that pick from the moment it was made. Seems to me it has turned out pretty well so far. George Kittle was a fifth round pick, Breida was an undrafted free agent. With a few obvious exceptions, there is almost no way of knowing how a college player's game is going to translate into the NFL, they spend a lot of time playing against guys who will be going into different careers once they get out of college. The history of the NFL is littered with first round busts, every team has them. Like everyone else I am hoping that the team will be able to get a good edge rusher in the next draft but I also think that the team needs to compete in its final three games. If you let them lie down now you run the risk of losing them altogether. Not to free agency or anything like that but just in terms of their commitment to what you are trying to achieve. You don't need players who are just there to collect a check, you need guys who are committed to winning, which means you have to win sometimes even in a down season to keep them invested in the process and to let them know you are serious about what you are trying to accomplish otherwise why should they continue to put in the effort.

Excellent post. I completely agree.

Some of us who have been alive and following the 49ers extremely closely since the mid-'70s know exactly what consistent losing looks like. It's no fun. Try 4 - 28 in consecutive years (the second being Walsh's first year). Then, 6-10 happened, which provided a glimpse into the team starting to make progress - and they got some wins to show for it. The following year after that: 13-3, which was one of the most incredible seasons I've experienced as a fan of the team. Nobody expected it.

The players, young & old, were part of a team that was executing what Walsh was coaching...they started becoming more & more competitive and started winning more during that 6-10 year (yes, I was happy they got 6 wins that year instead of another 2-14 season, which would have been three 2-win seasons in a row). We all know what happened from that next 13-3 year and going forward.

Not saying this regime is at all the same or that things will be replicated...just saying that as a fan I saw it happen once and I'll always hold out hope it can happen again. From what I've seen so far under Shanahan & Lynch, along with Garoppolo and his franchise-type, playmaking QB abilities, gives me a lot of optimism for the future - a lot more than just hope.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

They are professional athletes. They get paid to compete not to lie down. I suspect a win means more to them than it does to "fans" who are obsessed with draft position. Patriots haven't had a high draft pick, except perhaps through trade, for almost two decades. They seem to do all right. If you want to gauge the value of a high draft pick according to this forum just go over to the Solomon Thomas or Reuben Foster threads, or the Mike McGlinchey thread. People were rapping on that pick from the moment it was made. Seems to me it has turned out pretty well so far. George Kittle was a fifth round pick, Breida was an undrafted free agent. With a few obvious exceptions, there is almost no way of knowing how a college player's game is going to translate into the NFL, they spend a lot of time playing against guys who will be going into different careers once they get out of college. The history of the NFL is littered with first round busts, every team has them. Like everyone else I am hoping that the team will be able to get a good edge rusher in the next draft but I also think that the team needs to compete in its final three games. If you let them lie down now you run the risk of losing them altogether. Not to free agency or anything like that but just in terms of their commitment to what you are trying to achieve. You don't need players who are just there to collect a check, you need guys who are committed to winning, which means you have to win sometimes even in a down season to keep them invested in the process and to let them know you are serious about what you are trying to accomplish otherwise why should they continue to put in the effort.

Excellent post. I completely agree.

Some of us who have been alive and following the 49ers extremely closely since the mid-'70s know exactly what consistent losing looks like. It's no fun. Try 4 - 28 in consecutive years (the second being Walsh's first year). Then, 6-10 happened, which provided a glimpse into the team starting to make progress - and they got some wins to show for it. The following year after that: 13-3, which was one of the most incredible seasons I've experienced as a fan of the team. Nobody expected it.

The players, young & old, were part of a team that was executing what Walsh was coaching...they started becoming more & more competitive and started winning more during that 6-10 year (yes, I was happy they got 6 wins that year instead of another 2-14 season, which would have been three 2-win seasons in a row). We all know what happened from that next 13-3 year and going forward.

Not saying this regime is at all the same or that things will be replicated...just saying that as a fan I saw it happen once and I'll always hold out hope it can happen again. From what I've seen so far under Shanahan & Lynch, along with Garoppolo and his franchise-type, playmaking QB abilities, gives me a lot of optimism for the future - a lot more than just hope.

Yes but every year JG gets hurt sets us back a year. It isn't as much that the offensive players get 3 years into Kyles system, it is that the QB of this system is starting for 3 years so that he can dominate.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

It's because he knows he can't prove his side so he continues to straw man. Then other people come into this thread and rinse and repeat the idea that we are saying we want the TEAM themselves to tank when we are saying us as FANS want to tank. I swear I even think some of them might be alt accounts lol.

But I asked him multiple times what I wanted him to answer and he couldn't and tried to change the argument every single time. No problem with someone having a different mindset on this topic but its just unreal people agree with his opinion when he never said anything with evidence.

And he also said used an Ad Hominem to say that anyone who wants Bosa clearly has never played any sports. I guess my 11 years of football just never happened?

right

And what anyone did in HS/college football isn't even what we're talking about lol.