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Week 2 2018 - Thoughts after rewatching the game...

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Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Agree But

I don't see us getting a FA Edge Rusher. Maybe a LB.

Agree on the draft picks.

IMO, we'll have enough wins to keep us from drafting high.

We may have to make an incredible offer to move up to get a premiere ER,

I'd like us to get a top tier ER and a next tier ER.

Yup. I'm hoping we sign maybe someone like Graham or Fowler Jr. next offseason AND draft one of the top three edge rushing prospects in the draft. Although offensive guard is a big concern, too.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Great analysis Marv, as usual. I have a few thoughts after watching the game. (I could not watch the game live as I had my own football games to coach.) Here's my thoughts:

1.) Jimmy G.: I really think you are correct in your assessment. I re-watch some plays from last season and did a bit of comparing. Many of the plays were a bit off script. Plus, you could tell that Jimmy G. was playing with a scaled down playbook, and it was evident in his decisiveness in his throws. This season, with a full offseason with the full playbook I could almost see the gears turning in his head during his drop-backs. He's really not helped by his WR's bad/wrong rout running and the myriad of drops. So I really think Jimmy G. is in his own head. But he'll be fine.

2.) WR's: I don't know about anybody else but the lack of size, more importantly the lack of physicality, at the WR position is really a problem for us. Film study is evident in how teams are playing our WR's this season from last season. This season we are seeing a bunch of man coverage. And in that man coverage I'm seeing only one WR – Pierre Garçon – who's routinely physical enough to handle it

If there's a criticism that I have of Shanny it's in this area. It seems that the type of WR's he favors are of the smaller, speedier variety who can get separation. As a football coach the way that I deal with teams with those kind of WR's is to be physical with then in route, not necessarily jam, but physical with then in route to force a re-route . A lot of man, press-shadow, shallow off-man coverage, a lot of press coverages that off-sets "man beaters". I've found that to be pretty effective against teams with these kind of WR's. I'm seeing a lot of this kind of coverages against us this season. I'm not saying that we need to go get a Calvin Johnson-type WR (though I keep calling for one every season) but we need more physical WR's. And outside of Garçon our WR corps are a bit soft and lack physicality. Based on type of WR we drafted the one thing I feared was having an offense with finesse WR's who'll have trouble getting open (see Trent Tayler). Shanny will have to scheme all our WR's open save for Garçon.

In this way I suspect that this is be an area that Shanny will have to adjust his scheme. We gotta have at least one physical big body WR on the field. The league has gone to favoring bigger, more physical CB's and safeties. IMHO

3.) Pettis: I think it's gonna take more time for him to get in synch with Jimmy G. I personally think he's gonna need to bulk up a bit.

4.) DeForest Buckner: Simply the TRUTH!

5.) Breida: I really thought I was the only one who thought as Marv did about Brieda, though I wasn't pulling for him to get beat out. I just was of the mindset that he would be beat out. I just didn't think much of him. But if he can keep that production up he would be a pleasant surprise. If I'm not mistaken he leads the league in rushing (yeah, it's early). Imagine if that holds up.

6.) Pass Rush: This will be the bane of our team this season. No other negative about this team will hold us back more than this. I think our secondary is pretty decent, but the lack of a pass rush is exposing them. I really think that Shanny and Lynch prioritized this position a bit too low. I know this was a down season for edge rushers but there were some that I thought we could have drafted and been upgrades to what we have now. I was shocked this position wasn't addressed heavier.

7.) Colbert: Has been a disappointment thus far this season. I really hope he gets it together. If not start Ward.

8.) Taylor: See WR. I really hope Richie gets more snaps against KC. In any event it looks like Shanny will have to scheme him open too. Again, at some point Shanny is gonna come to the realization that he's gonna have to get bigger bodied WR's – at least 1 – who can get themselves open because Taylor is clearly having trouble in that area this season.

9.) Kittle: Need to hang onto the ball.

10.) LB's: Gonna love saying "I told you so" to folks about Warner playing the MIKE. Mark my words, he'll keep the green dot when Foster is back. Look for our mid-range pass defense to be much better against KC. Has Elijah Lee even contributed as a 49er?


Elijah is starting to remind me of jimmy ward. When either of those guys is on the field...we are weak. But that's the thing. 2nd yr of rebuild...we need PLAYERS.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
6) Pass Rush:Teams these days put even more importance on that position than they did in the 80s or 90s so no sane team will give a good one up in trade.

I see what you did there.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
6) Pass Rush: The 49ers in 1981 were good but it was the trade for Fred Dean that put them over the top.]

As an official "old timer, I must object. You are glossing over the early contributions of Dwaine "Tiny" Board. That man was a sack machine for the early 49er teams, but stats were not kept during those early years. The NFL didn't keep track of sacks until 1982, and stats like QB Pressures wouldn't be kept until a few years later. Truth be told, Tiny was an unblockabke monster on that '81 team. Tiny was our "pass rush specialist," a term that would not be coined and copied by other teams until Fred Dean came along.

I do, however, give Shanny and Lynch credit for using the same route that Bill Walsh followed when it came to Tiny. Walsh scoured the cut lists for the NFL teams with top defenses, and Tiny was among the final cuts Chuck Noll made in Pittsburgh in 1979. Hey, the choice was either Tiny, or Mean Joe Greene. And Noll wasn't about to cut Greene, even though he was clearly on the down side of his career and not nearly as effective as he was in his prime.

But it was much easier in 1979 to find guys like Tiny. Shanny and Lynch faced much steeper odds in trying to do what Walsh did. I will give them credit for trying. I hope they will keep trying. That "find" may or may not be out there, just waiting for his chance.

For those of you who were born after the days when Tiny struck fear into the hearts of opposing teams, he would win four Super Bowl rings with the 49ers. Three came as a player. The fourth was as a coach.
Originally posted by sacniner:
I been hesistant on Taylor, trying to calm the board down. Dude is average, I wanna see James. My dude Phoenix, LOVES Taylor, just like he loved McDonald.

Taylor lacks size and speed. He can make moves in small spaces, but so can DBs who are now focusing on him.

I wanna see Goodwin, Pettis, Garçon, Bourne and James get the lions share of WR PT this game.

Taylor is a guy that can get a lot of catches when defenses are focused on other guys like Kittle and Goodwin. Why do you think Bourne offers more than Taylor at this point?
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
6) Pass Rush: The 49ers in 1981 were good but it was the trade for Fred Dean that put them over the top.]

As an official "old timer, I must object. You are glossing over the early contributions of Dwaine "Tiny" Board. That man was a sack machine for the early 49er teams, but stats were not kept during those early years. The NFL didn't keep track of sacks until 1982, and stats like QB Pressures wouldn't be kept until a few years later. Truth be told, Tiny was an unblockabke monster on that '81 team. Tiny was our "pass rush specialist," a term that would not be coined and copied by other teams until Fred Dean came along.

I do, however, give Shanny and Lynch credit for using the same route that Bill Walsh followed when it came to Tiny. Walsh scoured the cut lists for the NFL teams with top defenses, and Tiny was among the final cuts Chuck Noll made in Pittsburgh in 1979. Hey, the choice was either Tiny, or Mean Joe Greene. And Noll wasn't about to cut Greene, even though he was clearly on the down side of his career and not nearly as effective as he was in his prime.

But it was much easier in 1979 to find guys like Tiny. Shanny and Lynch faced much steeper odds in trying to do what Walsh did. I will give them credit for trying. I hope they will keep trying. That "find" may or may not be out there, just waiting for his chance.

For those of you who were born after the days when Tiny struck fear into the hearts of opposing teams, he would win four Super Bowl rings with the 49ers. Three came as a player. The fourth was as a coach.

I can't question your knowledge on those early 49ers teams, but the OP was saying Fred Dean put us over the top. Do you think that 49ers team wins the Super Bowl without Fred Dean? It's kind of like the 49ers defense in 94. They were going to be good without Deion, but that addition took the team to another level.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by sacniner:
I been hesistant on Taylor, trying to calm the board down. Dude is average, I wanna see James. My dude Phoenix, LOVES Taylor, just like he loved McDonald.

Taylor lacks size and speed. He can make moves in small spaces, but so can DBs who are now focusing on him.

I wanna see Goodwin, Pettis, Garçon, Bourne and James get the lions share of WR PT this game.

Taylor is a guy that can get a lot of catches when defenses are focused on other guys like Kittle and Goodwin. Why do you think Bourne offers more than Taylor at this point?
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
6) Pass Rush: The 49ers in 1981 were good but it was the trade for Fred Dean that put them over the top.]

As an official "old timer, I must object. You are glossing over the early contributions of Dwaine "Tiny" Board. That man was a sack machine for the early 49er teams, but stats were not kept during those early years. The NFL didn't keep track of sacks until 1982, and stats like QB Pressures wouldn't be kept until a few years later. Truth be told, Tiny was an unblockabke monster on that '81 team. Tiny was our "pass rush specialist," a term that would not be coined and copied by other teams until Fred Dean came along.

I do, however, give Shanny and Lynch credit for using the same route that Bill Walsh followed when it came to Tiny. Walsh scoured the cut lists for the NFL teams with top defenses, and Tiny was among the final cuts Chuck Noll made in Pittsburgh in 1979. Hey, the choice was either Tiny, or Mean Joe Greene. And Noll wasn't about to cut Greene, even though he was clearly on the down side of his career and not nearly as effective as he was in his prime.

But it was much easier in 1979 to find guys like Tiny. Shanny and Lynch faced much steeper odds in trying to do what Walsh did. I will give them credit for trying. I hope they will keep trying. That "find" may or may not be out there, just waiting for his chance.

For those of you who were born after the days when Tiny struck fear into the hearts of opposing teams, he would win four Super Bowl rings with the 49ers. Three came as a player. The fourth was as a coach.

I can't question your knowledge on those early 49ers teams, but the OP was saying Fred Dean put us over the top. Do you think that 49ers team wins the Super Bowl without Fred Dean? It's kind of like the 49ers defense in 94. They were going to be good without Deion, but that addition took the team to another level.

That, sir, is a loaded question. To ask if we would have won in '84 without Fred Dean is akin to asking if we would have won without Montana. Dean was VERY important to that '84 team.

I was just pointing out to Marvin that Tiny was just as effective in '81. He was the de facto "pass rush specialist" before Dean came around. He just didn't have the title that Dean had. Was he as effective as Dean? In my opinion, yes he was. But, I am also a defender of the past.

Bill Walsh wasn't receiving league-wide recognition as an offensive genius in 1981. I don't even know if the term of West Coast Offense had been coined yet. He had yet to demonstrate that he could win in the NFL. Prior to the '81 team, he had notched a total of eight wins over the course of two seasons. The fame and accolades Walsh would receive came later.

But, it is that '81 team that put Walsh and his system on the map and a nationwide radar. But people were still dubious. There were some who saw the '81 team as a fluke. The challenge to Walsh, at the time, was "let's see if he can do that again." The 1982 season was marred by a strike. But when Walsh had the team rolling again in 1983, he finally began to get the credit he so richly deserved.
Originally posted by Marvin49:

3) Pettis: Dante Pettis to me is a bit of a conundrum. The way he runs is so unorthodox. I really like the guy but sometimes I can't really tell if he's not trying hard or if his style just makes it LOOK like he's not trying hard. He is so smooth and even when he jukes it isn't a quick twitch, jerky movement. I still think the way he runs routes sometimes throws off the QB and I think that's why on the air they spoke about Garoppolo running routes with him so that Pettis would know where the ball would be and when.

Once they figure that out tho...wow. He could do real damage in space.

He's an odd duck I'll give you that but if you question his commitment watch the Breida TD run. Garcon was out there blocking like a champ but Pettis was going down there full sprint to try to find someone to block as well.

I think people are thrown off by him since he's not your typical "dive through a wall for the football" guy but I don't see someone who half asses on the football field.
Just a heads up to any one who cares.

Long weekend followed by the total gut-punch that was the Jimmy G injury.

I just haven't had the willpower to rewatch the game yet. LOL. I will though and post later in the week. I can't remember the last time I was THIS disappointed. Maybe the Super Bowl? 2013 NFC Championship Game? Dunno.
  • 9moon
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,182
Had this coaching staff followed my advice, we woulda won the game.

POUND POUND POUND BIG PLAY !!

2nd half - we show the world that KC is weak against the run, and this is what we shoulda done all day.. patience patience then BOOM !!!
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Just a heads up to any one who cares.

Long weekend followed by the total gut-punch that was the Jimmy G injury.

I just haven't had the willpower to rewatch the game yet. LOL. I will though and post later in the week. I can't remember the last time I was THIS disappointed. Maybe the Super Bowl? 2013 NFC Championship Game? Dunno.
bummer of a week

No more Marvin?
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 15,816
Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
No more Marvin?

For another couple of days. I hope he recovers from his gut punch. Otherwise we'll have to trade him for a couple of draft picks, or beer, whichever comes first.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
No more Marvin?

For another couple of days. I hope he recovers from his gut punch. Otherwise we'll have to trade him for a couple of draft picks, or beer, whichever comes first.

Haha completely agreed Marvin49. Been rough since end of game Sunday
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Just a heads up to any one who cares.

Long weekend followed by the total gut-punch that was the Jimmy G injury.

I just haven't had the willpower to rewatch the game yet. LOL. I will though and post later in the week. I can't remember the last time I was THIS disappointed. Maybe the Super Bowl? 2013 NFC Championship Game? Dunno.

I'm with you brother. I told a friend of mine who was watching the game with me, I hadn't felt like this since the nfc championship game against Seattle.

We finally have a QB, and he gets hurt. Crazy
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Just a heads up to any one who cares.

Long weekend followed by the total gut-punch that was the Jimmy G injury.

I just haven't had the willpower to rewatch the game yet. LOL. I will though and post later in the week. I can't remember the last time I was THIS disappointed. Maybe the Super Bowl? 2013 NFC Championship Game? Dunno.

no problem my man. take your time!

hurry up
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