There are 217 users in the forums

Week 2 2018 - Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
We just gotta try Breida more in the passing game, he definitely has the speed. Now the route running and catching like McKinnon that's a different story, but they should just see what happens for the threat alone

I actually liked that Alf received passes. It keeps the defense honest that they can't overplay the run when he's in there.
Great post, as usual Marvin...Thanks, man. Many of you zoners have pointed out the issues this team has (every team does, by the way, except perhaps the current Rams). Anyway, after a couple of days of contemplation (I was as pissed as you guys were after that game), why not list the positives that we noticed.

1) The Niners actually played pretty well for 3 quarters. Yes, they missed some tackles and the receivers had a hard time getting separation (because they were being held all afternoon) but the fact is, this team was up by 17 in the fourth.
2) A lot of players played well as Marvin noted (Breida, Buck, Armstead, Jimmy, Sherman!, Celek, Reed, DJ Jones...) and the OL pass blocking was terrific.
3) The special teams was indeed special. That is an area which has really stood out in the first 2 games.
4) Yes,. both Warner and Lee were inconsistent but both made some good plays too. Lee is really inexperienced so these games when he has a chance to play will really pay off down the line. He is a good athlete and if can learn to tackle better (tackling is an art form), he can be a solid backup and perhaps more.
5) Yes, this team is young....and makes mistakes. Let's try to imagine these guys with another year of experience (I'm thinking mainly of the young guys on defense)... The team actually has a lot of talent. It is simply a bit undeveloped at this point. It usually takes guys at least a year or two before they reach stud status....even a guy like Buckner. Half the guys on defense are in their first, second or early in their third year. I think by the middle of this season, we will really start seeing the defense start to gel.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Niners win a game on the road this year that they are supposed to lose. It's gonna be fun to watch this team grow. To me, sometimes it is more fun to watch a team grow (like the 1970 and 1981 Niners did) into a playoff team than watching them after they've arrived. Let's enjoy the process!

Cheers!
Originally posted by 49ers81:
They are still a pretty young team learning a complex offense and dealing with an injury to their top wide out. A couple of plays here or there and they could have beaten the Vikings. If Garoppolo hits that slant to Kittle they might have had another TD against the Lions. Though of course they got lucky on the interception and Stafford also had a couple of near misses. Football really is a game of inches sometimes. They are going into a really tough stretch of games that will determine how the rest of their season is going to go. The KC game will be especially tough. That is one that I thought might be a win going into the season because of their defense but with the way Mahomes is playing all bets are off.

Jimmy G. is only going into his tenth game as a starter so is probably still learning. Six sacks should be quite a teacher so we'll see how he responds. I do agree that he seems to be a bit out of sync so far this year but at the moment it still feels like he will eventually get on track. The drops haven't helped.

Witherspoon had a tough game so now we'll see how he responds. Lack of a pass rush is really hurting them. I had hoped they might be able to scheme some more pressure this year but so far that isn't happening. Clearly the Marsh experiment is a failure. Now they really will have to find somebody who can come off the edge. Still sorry they let McFadden go. I'd be curious to hear the inside story on that. He always seemed to have really good technique when he was in the game, though at times he didn't look like he was ready to mix it up on the tackling end. Wonder if it was a speed issue.

Breida really showed up to play. That long run really was something. He started out by slipping through a gap that was about 18 inches wide and then showed tremendous patience running behind Garcon for the last 10 yards or so. Hopefully he will get some more opportunities. Thought Morris was solid too. They make a pretty good combo.

Reed can really get up the field as a returner. With their kickers and Mostert and Pettis and Taylor that unit could really end up being a difference maker in some games.

All in all I thought it was a pretty good effort though, as I said, the offense still seems to be a bit out of sync. Huge test coming next week and two games under their belts to see where they need to improve. Could be an entertaining game. Go Niners!!


Good post 👏👏
Originally posted by thl408:
Sherman: "Man, I'm getting hungry. They ain't throwing s**t my way, John! When I get bored, I want to eat."

Lynch: "Well Levi's has some good gourmet food at the concession stands over there."

Sherman: "I said I'm hungry, not that I want to go broke. I can't afford that s**t. $10 for a small beer? I'm not about to drop $30 on a snack. You must think I make Jimmy G money!"
[ Edited by BleedsRedNGold on Sep 19, 2018 at 7:53 AM ]
^ So good!!!
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Originally posted by thl408:
Sherman: "Man, I'm getting hungry. They ain't throwing s**t my way, John! When I get bored, I want to eat."

Lynch: "Well Levi's has some good gourmet food at the concession stands over there."

Sherman: "I said I'm hungry, not that I want to go broke. I can't afford that s**t. $10 for a small beer? I'm not about to drop $30 on a snack. You must think I make Jimmy G money!"

Originally posted by Marvin49:
So I waited a day on this one because I was at the game and didn't get a chance to re-watch it Sunday night. I wanted to make sure I saw what I thought I saw at the game.

1) Garoppolo: I THINK I know whats kinda going on with him. I'm not married to the theory but this is what I think. Last year he didn't know the offense really much at all and was just wingin it when he wasn't sure. Shanahan said as much about how often he goes off schedule when he isn't sure. He played several games that way and was impressive.

Now, He's really trying to stay in the design of the play and he's still learning the offense. This isn't a negative BTW. ALL QBs struggle in their first year with Shanahan. Some called him the "QB KILLER" in the past. A good example is Matt Ryan. In year one with Shanahan, Ryan had 21 TDs, 16 INTs, a 7.48 Average per attempt, and a QB Rating of 89. In year TWO with Shanahan, he had 38 TDs, 7 INTs, a 9.26 Average per attempt, and a QB rating of 117.1.

Yes, Jimmy came in last year and technically this is year 2 in SF, but he's only had one real offseason and 7 starts under Shanahan. This is all just a long way of saying I think Jimmys in his head just a bit. The combo of him trying to work through his reads, guys not getting open, and his desire not to throw INTs has frozen him a bit and is causing him to take sacks he shouldn't take and wouldn't have taken last year.

It also means that once he's more comfortable I think he'll be a whole lot better. He had a rough week one and week 2 was good, but it just wasn't what our expectations are. Patience.

2) WRs: I also want to make this clear - It ain't all Jimmy. The guys running the routes are still making mistakes as well. Running wrong routes, dropping the ball, or simply not getting separation. This team is not a finished product. We'll get there. I never thought I'd say this before the season started last year, but Goodwin simply cannot come back fast enough. They need that speed out there.

3) Pettis: Dante Pettis to me is a bit of a conundrum. The way he runs is so unorthodox. I really like the guy but sometimes I can't really tell if he's not trying hard or if his style just makes it LOOK like he's not trying hard. He is so smooth and even when he jukes it isn't a quick twitch, jerky movement. I still think the way he runs routes sometimes throws off the QB and I think that's why on the air they spoke about Garoppolo running routes with him so that Pettis would know where the ball would be and when.

Once they figure that out tho...wow. He could do real damage in space.

4) DeForest Buckner: Still a monster.

5) Breida: I have to admit, I've never really given Breida a chance. I've always doubted him. I've always wanted someone else to play ahead of him. Be it Joe Williams, or Jet, I've always hoped someone would beat him out...and I can't really even tell you why. That all stopped on Sunday. He got some great blocking so it wasn't all him, but that dude can play. He averaged 4.4 yards per carry LAST year to Hydes 3.9. This year (and yes its way early and the 66 yard run makes a big difference) he's averaging a whopping 8.4 yards per carry. Even if you remove the 66 yarder he's averaging 5.6 yards per carry.

This is what the Shanahans do. They find guys seemingly from nowhere, they find specific traits they are looking for, they plug them in and BOOM, 1000 yard back. Terrell Davis. Olandis Gary. Mike Anderson. Arian Foster (Kubiak running Shanahan system and later having Kyle as OC). Alfred Morris.

Its too early to say that's what Breida will be, but all my doubts on him have begun to dissipate. When it comes to the RB position, I trust in the Shanahan.

6) Pass Rush: This will be an issue all year, particularly from the outside. Solomon Thomas simply isn't that guy. He may end up being a very good player, but he's never going to be a premiere edge rusher. The 49ers won't be a REAL threat for a title until they find THAT guy. The 49ers in 1981 were good but it was the trade for Fred Dean that put them over the top. The Cowboys of the 90s were very good but it was the trade for Charles Haley that put THEM over the top. For me Khalil Mack could have been that guy but that option is gone. They need to find that guy. Teams these days put even more importance on that position than they did in the 80s or 90s so no sane team will give a good one up in trade. This will have to be a position they draft and I'd guess with an early pick next year. DeForest is a beast in the middle...now they need an outside rusher to compliment him.

7) Colbert: I was excited about his play late last year but i gotta say his star is falling dramatically for me. Bad angles, missed tackles, usually not in the picture in pass D and getting trucked by Blount (although admittedly he wasn't alone there). Hope he bounces back but so far color me unimpressed by his play.

8) Taylor: His lack of speed is beginning to show. Seems like he's having alot of trouble getting open this year. When the ball is thrown his way seems very often a safety is just waiting for it or a DB is draped all over him. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point this year we start seeing Ritchie James. I like Taylor and maybe he bounces back, but I have my doubts.

9) Kittle: Man that guy would be a monster if he'd hang onto the ball. Now the worst drop he had was admittedly a great play by the defender, but Kittle has a huge upside. No, he isn't Vernon Davis, but there has only ever been one Vernon Davis. Ever. What he can be though is a faster Jason Witten. I'll take that.

10) LB: WOW has the LB play sucked this year. Warner is out there playing very well (although makes a few mistakes and I still don't think he plays as physically as he should), but every other LB is just horrible. Lee was faster than Coyle (low bar to clear) but its no help to get to the spot of you can't make the play when you get there. Nzeocha was no better.

There is some good news tho. For a long time I've been wanting to say this. There were some times that I thought it would never happen and that his time was done. His legal problems are behind him. His suspension is behind him. If he stays on the right path, its ALL behind him.

Reuben. Is. Back.


Spot on about Taylor, perhaps the back injury is impacting him more than expected.
Your standard excellence, Marv. thanks for the work you put in.

Re: jimmy...what about cutting out 20% of the playbook and going back to learning 80% perfectly? Some may Pooh Pooh this but it's a thot.

DeFo: Monster? Definitely. Don't put him on outside, he's a DT. So is Armstead and altho he doesn't make the tackle, when he is next to DeFo, it seems Buck always does better. Just be happy with that . As for LEO and ER, keep trying different combos,, but Buck is best inside and Armstead the same....keep them both there. Figure out of the rest, who is best outside....but keep those two guys where they are best. Nothing wrong with a strong inside PR. Like you or someone else said, "We need players"....and we aren't talking about so- so players. STUD players. As you noted Marv, we are getting Reuben back and it will be fascinating how the D responds to that. Also the comment that Patricia took away the in-between yardage passes....spot on. He knew where to attack jimmy and it was in the intermediate zone.

Adrian: didn't know he was sick, so the fact he has given up 3 TDs in two weeks...maybe been a bit tough on him. Good for him for being out there.

Kyle + JimmyG ...1+1 = 7 , my prediction some time ago. Not now, not when JG is still mentally fumbling thru the playbook on every passing down. The previous equation only works when JG has the playbook down pat. Right now it seems 1+ 1 = 1 for our OC/QB. It will come in time, but not early on. Also once kyle gets cooking, he really is wired into the offensive game, and gets mad if someone holds or false starts or whatever. I thot it was because he didn't like losing those yrds. Nope...he didn't like his playcalling rhythm disturbed. He basically said as much. Until jimmy has the "book" down, 1+ 1 will equal 1, and it is the deadly combo of these two that will make us dominant in the future. When? Ah, that's a good question. The pairing of the best OC and one of the best QBs is going to be a huge advantage. Just isn't going to be soon. Too much work on JG's part to be done.

"We need PLAYERS"....noted above but that is a major need now. Losing the Jet hurt. Marquise out ...hurt. No ER ..hurt. Same for Leo. No tall "Jimmy Graham like" WR/TE hurt..no solid RG, hurt.. That is a lot of "PLAYERS". And until we have finished that list, including getting JET back...we are a 8-9 W team. We improved this yr talentwise, but looking at KC, CHI, MN, RAMs, to mention a few...so did a bunch of other teams.

Again, Marv, great rewatch summary, and thanks.
I didnt think the team played all that well. Nothing really clicked, there was no smoothness to it all. Not surprised about this, just an observation. It is a very young team and it is going to take time. Breida, though, was lights out. Way ahead of expectations. And the O line wasnt bad. Better than I expected although significant further improvements are needed. The receivers had a bad day and Garoppolo seemed to target the tight ends mostly. I thought Shanahan should have got Juszczyk more involved in the game, he had a few good plays.

Apart from Sherman and Buckner the D was nothing to write home about. The linebackers desperately need Foster back, aside from Warner they were garbage.

Special teams looked generally good.

Just imo this. But it is pretty much where such a young team are likely to be right now. Take out Staley, Gould and Garcon and they are just a bunch of kids.
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Originally posted by thl408:
Sherman: "Man, I'm getting hungry. They ain't throwing s**t my way, John! When I get bored, I want to eat."

Lynch: "Well Levi's has some good gourmet food at the concession stands over there."

Sherman: "I said I'm hungry, not that I want to go broke. I can't afford that s**t. $10 for a small beer? I'm not about to drop $30 on a snack. You must think I make Jimmy G money!"
Epic bad lip reading bro

Originally posted by Sourball:
Great post Marvin, always a favorite.
Joe Fann had a good line.
People were encouraged by the loss to Minnesota but down about the win over the Lions.
Yeah, I want them to dominate everyone and put the fear into opponents like the 80's and early 90's Niners but even an "ehhh" over an ugly win is better than the feeling I would be having this week if they had lost.

Was interesting that Spielman was saying that Lion's CB's are taught to play the WR's arms for the ball in the air and not turn and look for the ball so that they don't lose track of their man. Is that why 49er DB's never see the ball coming? Same method?
What's up with the poor tackling? Fear of the new rule infraction?
The Lions defense was making Shermans style look like he's germaphobic the way they were grabbing the Niners WR's and TE's

Yeah, what's up with the tackling? Especially it seems like too often the tackler is not trying to wrap up but instead just plow into the ball carrier with their shoulder. If that is the case, are they being taught to tackle that way?
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Yea Colbert isn't making any plays, and Tartt looks even worse. They need to step it up. The linebacker play has been god awful. Really nothing to say or that we can do about the pass rush. We just don't have the players

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. To me its the biggest goal out of the offseason next year. They gotta get some guys there. Not one, but several. Marsh isn't the guy. Marsh is a guy you replace.
I'd say a free agent and two draft picks

Agree But

I don't see us getting a FA Edge Rusher. Maybe a LB.

Agree on the draft picks.

IMO, we'll have enough wins to keep us from drafting high.

We may have to make an incredible offer to move up to get a premiere ER,

I'd like us to get a top tier ER and a next tier ER.
Very fine summary Marvin!

Especially your takes on WR, Brieda, and Pass Rush.

IMO, our overall tackling was poor.

Guys kept failing to wrap-up and finish the tackle.
Great analysis Marv, as usual. I have a few thoughts after watching the game. (I could not watch the game live as I had my own football games to coach.) Here's my thoughts:

1.) Jimmy G.: I really think you are correct in your assessment. I re-watch some plays from last season and did a bit of comparing. Many of the plays were a bit off script. Plus, you could tell that Jimmy G. was playing with a scaled down playbook, and it was evident in his decisiveness in his throws. This season, with a full offseason with the full playbook I could almost see the gears turning in his head during his drop-backs. He's really not helped by his WR's bad/wrong rout running and the myriad of drops. So I really think Jimmy G. is in his own head. But he'll be fine.

2.) WR's: I don't know about anybody else but the lack of size, more importantly the lack of physicality, at the WR position is really a problem for us. Film study is evident in how teams are playing our WR's this season from last season. This season we are seeing a bunch of man coverage. And in that man coverage I'm seeing only one WR – Pierre Garçon – who's routinely physical enough to handle it

If there's a criticism that I have of Shanny it's in this area. It seems that the type of WR's he favors are of the smaller, speedier variety who can get separation. As a football coach the way that I deal with teams with those kind of WR's is to be physical with then in route, not necessarily jam, but physical with then in route to force a re-route . A lot of man, press-shadow, shallow off-man coverage, a lot of press coverages that off-sets "man beaters". I've found that to be pretty effective against teams with these kind of WR's. I'm seeing a lot of this kind of coverages against us this season. I'm not saying that we need to go get a Calvin Johnson-type WR (though I keep calling for one every season) but we need more physical WR's. And outside of Garçon our WR corps are a bit soft and lack physicality. Based on type of WR we drafted the one thing I feared was having an offense with finesse WR's who'll have trouble getting open (see Trent Tayler). Shanny will have to scheme all our WR's open save for Garçon.

In this way I suspect that this is be an area that Shanny will have to adjust his scheme. We gotta have at least one physical big body WR on the field. The league has gone to favoring bigger, more physical CB's and safeties. IMHO

3.) Pettis: I think it's gonna take more time for him to get in synch with Jimmy G. I personally think he's gonna need to bulk up a bit.

4.) DeForest Buckner: Simply the TRUTH!

5.) Breida: I really thought I was the only one who thought as Marv did about Brieda, though I wasn't pulling for him to get beat out. I just was of the mindset that he would be beat out. I just didn't think much of him. But if he can keep that production up he would be a pleasant surprise. If I'm not mistaken he leads the league in rushing (yeah, it's early). Imagine if that holds up.

6.) Pass Rush: This will be the bane of our team this season. No other negative about this team will hold us back more than this. I think our secondary is pretty decent, but the lack of a pass rush is exposing them. I really think that Shanny and Lynch prioritized this position a bit too low. I know this was a down season for edge rushers but there were some that I thought we could have drafted and been upgrades to what we have now. I was shocked this position wasn't addressed heavier.

7.) Colbert: Has been a disappointment thus far this season. I really hope he gets it together. If not start Ward.

8.) Taylor: See WR. I really hope Richie gets more snaps against KC. In any event it looks like Shanny will have to scheme him open too. Again, at some point Shanny is gonna come to the realization that he's gonna have to get bigger bodied WR's – at least 1 – who can get themselves open because Taylor is clearly having trouble in that area this season.

9.) Kittle: Need to hang onto the ball.

10.) LB's: Gonna love saying "I told you so" to folks about Warner playing the MIKE. Mark my words, he'll keep the green dot when Foster is back. Look for our mid-range pass defense to be much better against KC. Has Elijah Lee even contributed as a 49er?
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,609
Originally posted by cortana49:
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Originally posted by thl408:
Sherman: "Man, I'm getting hungry. They ain't throwing s**t my way, John! When I get bored, I want to eat."

Lynch: "Well Levi's has some good gourmet food at the concession stands over there."

Sherman: "I said I'm hungry, not that I want to go broke. I can't afford that s**t. $10 for a small beer? I'm not about to drop $30 on a snack. You must think I make Jimmy G money!"


Share 49erswebzone