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Originally posted by NYniner85:
Go head and start Blaine and see what happens...like I said if he blows it you gonna still blame Kap? Fix the OL and coaching before starting all over at the QB position just my 2 cents you don't have to agree with it.
Originally posted by captveg:You keep saying this as if it's something I believe. I don't believe any of this, but clearly you have difficulty understanding that, or are purposely being an ass. I suspect it's the latter.
Originally posted by captveg:If Blaine blows on plays that are not the OL's fault I will blame Blaine.
You see, I'm not just about fixing the QB OR fixing the OL. I'd prefer to fix BOTH.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Then what do you believe? That Blaine will actually be a better QB for this team? You said we all could care less how s**tty Kap plays in the regular season which leads me to believe that yes your put a ton of blame on this season because of him..if I'm wrong in assuming that then I apologize.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
I still think Kap can be a successful QB in the league but not with the current coaching staff or hideous OL around him...id prefer to just have to fix ONE issue( well two coaching staffs got to go).
That's where we differ.
Originally posted by captveg:I think Blaine could do better at the plays that could alleviate some of the problems with the poor OL, yes.
The OL sucks. Clearly. It needs to be improved with new players.
But Kap is also terrible, IMO. And his biggest weaknesses only compound the OL problems (bad footwork, inability to hit quick timing routes, running into sacks).
Gabbert could (again - could, because we haven't seen him in regular season play one way or another) at least shore up the QB position in regards to being better in these specific areas that Kap is weak at, thereby working better in context with a bad OL than Kap can.
If not, oh well we found out that Gabbert can't even be the 2016 stop-gap starter.
I'd also start Tiller right now at RG, and clearly Kilgore returns as C as soon as possible.
But if Gabbert can play better than Kap right now with the poor OL, then Gabbert starts in 2016 while a 2nd-4th round rookie sits and improves.
Then in 2017 you have 1st round pick QB, 2016 2nd-4th round pick QB and Gabbert battle it out, expecting one of the young guys to win the job.
Also during this time you draft a 1st round OT in 2016, Kilgore has returned healthy, you've resigned Boone, maybe you keep Davis after he returns (but personally I'd trade him as I don't trust him), and you've signed/drafted 3-5 other OL to fight it out to improve the line.
But, yes, I'm done with Kap (and Martin-Devey-Pears, but only one of them has a replacement right now, assuming Brown isn't quite ready at RT. But you know what? I wouldn't mind seeing him in over Pears, either).
Originally posted by NYniner85:
I with you on making some changes on the OL...so if Blaine find no time to make reads or throw the ball because he's too busy trying to not get tackled, you still think Kap needs to go? You wouldn't think possibly just maybe the play calling and poor OL play could be a big reason for kaps regression?
Kap had solid games when he actually had time to throw the ball in the Giants, Vikings, and Baltimore games (yes I understand they were poor secondaries but he had some real nice throws regardless).
I think it's just not poor QB play for all the issues on the offense ( which you agree)and Kap with a good line and actually calling play calls to his strengths will do a lot( why was he in shot gun most of the Seattle game?)...but you've seem to already made your mind up.
Originally posted by captveg:Yes. In today's NFL, only 5-8 teams have "good" OLs. You need a QB that can mitigate those problems, not compound them. Kap compounds them. Gabbert probably at best mitigates them better than Kap (or maybe he doesn't at all - but we don't know), but obviously he's very unlikely to thrive, hence being a stop-gap.
But look across the league - the better QBs can succeed in spite of weak OLs. Wilson has a terrible OL right now but he mitigates it with positive plays that Kap can't make, for example. And I'm not that big of a fan of Wilson, but it's the truth.
If Kap can only succeed if the OL is Top 10, then that's not good enough, because poor OL play is practically a given in today's NFL, and you need a QB that can survive it far better than Kap can.
Originally posted by captveg:Originally posted by NYniner85:I with you on making some changes on the OL...so if Blaine find no time to make reads or throw the ball because he's too busy trying to not get tackled, you still think Kap needs to go? You wouldn't think possibly just maybe the play calling and poor OL play could be a big reason for kaps regression?
Kap had solid games when he actually had time to throw the ball in the Giants, Vikings, and Baltimore games (yes I understand they were poor secondaries but he had some real nice throws regardless).
I think it's just not poor QB play for all the issues on the offense ( which you agree)and Kap with a good line and actually calling play calls to his strengths will do a lot( why was he in shot gun most of the Seattle game?)...but you've seem to already made your mind up.
Yes. In today's NFL, only 5-8 teams have "good" OLs. You need a QB that can mitigate those problems, not compound them. Kap compounds them. Gabbert probably at best mitigates them better than Kap (or maybe he doesn't at all - but we don't know), but obviously he's very unlikely to thrive, hence being a stop-gap.
But look across the league - the better QBs can succeed in spite of weak OLs. Wilson has a terrible OL right now but he mitigates it with positive plays that Kap can't make, for example. And I'm not that big of a fan of Wilson, but it's the truth.
If Kap can only succeed if the OL is Top 10, then that's not good enough, because poor OL play is practically a given in today's NFL, and you need a QB that can survive it far better than Kap can.
That's fine. The 9ners can give him 2 million and say f off lolOriginally posted by Rascal:Again, you are totally missing the point. The veteran free agent is not supposed to "replace" Kap, he is a bridge QB for the rookie to sit behind until he is ready. Plus, I don't know why it is funny whether the guy is Fitzpatrick, Hasselbeck or whoever. Hasslebeck for instance has won more games than Andrew Luck this year.
Plus, your suggestion of converting Kap from a starting QB to a career back-up is absolutely absurd. You think Kap is just going to say sure OK no problem I will convert to a career back-up from this point on?! Do you have any idea how much back-up QBs are paid? At most no more than $5 mil and you think Kap will be more than happy to cut his package from $17 mil next season to that?! Are you serious?! LOL.You are asking the guy to cut his pay by more than 70%!! He would tell you to F off and try his luck in free agency.
That's fine. The 9ners can give him 2 million and say f off lolOriginally posted by Rascal:Again, you are totally missing the point. The veteran free agent is not supposed to "replace" Kap, he is a bridge QB for the rookie to sit behind until he is ready. Plus, I don't know why it is funny whether the guy is Fitzpatrick, Hasselbeck or whoever. Hasslebeck for instance has won more games than Andrew Luck this year.
Plus, your suggestion of converting Kap from a starting QB to a career back-up is absolutely absurd. You think Kap is just going to say sure OK no problem I will convert to a career back-up from this point on?! Do you have any idea how much back-up QBs are paid? At most no more than $5 mil and you think Kap will be more than happy to cut his package from $17 mil next season to that?! Are you serious?! LOL.You are asking the guy to cut his pay by more than 70%!! He would tell you to F off and try his luck in free agency.
Not last season lolOriginally posted by NYniner85:He had a top D and top running game nowhere near a top pass blocking OL....where are you gonna magically find a young QB that's gonna perform well with his team? Backups in this league are just that backups at the very least Kap has shown glimpses of a being a solid starting QB.
Kap was fine when we actually had a coaching staff. as long as we keep who's calling the plays around its not gonna matter who's QB....agrue all you want about how Kap sucks but he played well under harbs and most qbs in this league need a decent defense and a OL that can block a four man rush.
How do you know he'd tell me to F off? You can give him a reduced base salary with incentives that could make him more...does he not think he can play at a high enough level to make more money? If not then he should go.
That's fine. The 9ners can give him 2 million and say f off lolOriginally posted by Rascal:Again, you are totally missing the point. The veteran free agent is not supposed to "replace" Kap, he is a bridge QB for the rookie to sit behind until he is ready. Plus, I don't know why it is funny whether the guy is Fitzpatrick, Hasselbeck or whoever. Hasslebeck for instance has won more games than Andrew Luck this year.
Plus, your suggestion of converting Kap from a starting QB to a career back-up is absolutely absurd. You think Kap is just going to say sure OK no problem I will convert to a career back-up from this point on?! Do you have any idea how much back-up QBs are paid? At most no more than $5 mil and you think Kap will be more than happy to cut his package from $17 mil next season to that?! Are you serious?! LOL.You are asking the guy to cut his pay by more than 70%!! He would tell you to F off and try his luck in free agency.
Originally posted by NYniner85:He had a top D and top running game nowhere near a top pass blocking OL....where are you gonna magically find a young QB that's gonna perform well with his team? Backups in this league are just that backups at the very least Kap has shown glimpses of a being a solid starting QB.
Kap was fine when we actually had a coaching staff. as long as we keep who's calling the plays around its not gonna matter who's QB....agrue all you want about how Kap sucks but he played well under harbs and most qbs in this league need a decent defense and a OL that can block a four man rush.
How do you know he'd tell me to F off? You can give him a reduced base
Originally posted by Rascal:Why would you pay $17 mil for a bridge QB?? LOL.Originally posted by NYniner85:I still think Kap is worth salvaging (just my opinion) , build a good OL (everyone in here says it super easy lol) and grab a coach that actually knows something about offense and doesn't want to surround his self with a bunch of proven losers.
I know the season is over, start playing some of the younger players at OL and see if Baalke hit.
We would have to pay him 17 million to salvage him. Waste of money period.
Originally posted by captveg:
Yes. In today's NFL, only 5-8 teams have "good" OLs. You need a QB that can mitigate those problems, not compound them. Kap compounds them. Gabbert probably at best mitigates them better than Kap (or maybe he doesn't at all - but we don't know), but obviously he's very unlikely to thrive, hence being a stop-gap.
Originally posted by fan49:That's fine. The 9ners can give him 2 million and say f off lol
Not last season lol
Originally posted by dj43:this ^^^
If anyone has NFL Game Pass and can go back and compare the performances of Gabbert and Kaepernick, it will be abundantly clear that Gabbert had a much better feel for the kind of game that must be played with an OL that is less than stellar.
