Start Gabbert?

I don't know why our coaching staff and GMs don't keep drafting QBs every year. We let our guys get too damn comfortable. There are only about 10 teams in this league who have the luxury of having good QBs. All others need to keep looking for an upgrade, just like the Niners should have been doing since 2006... Alex didn't show enough in 2005 to let him get comfortable.

We haven't ever brought in legitimate contenders to Kap or Alex. Carr? Dilfer? Gabbert? Troy Smith? Thompson? Rattay? Dorsey? who else...?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rascal:
First thing you have to remember is we are rebuilding. That means we are not all of a sudden going to become fantastic. It will take some time. We only need a veteran QB who can sustain efficient QB play that can tie us through say a season until the new rookie is ready.

As for the right side of the line, I am sure we will address it in the offseason via draft as well as free agency. We will have a tonne of cap room especially if we cut Kap. Don't worry we will find someone.

OR you rebuild around a QB that has won playoff games and taken a team to the SB. I get it you're not a Kap fan and now you see an opportunity to get rid of him and replace him with the likes of Chase Daniels or Fitz lol. I'd rather restructure his contract build the OL and D, then drop a starting QB for career backups and "try" to find our franchise QB which could take years.

People act like finding a franchise QB is easy lol...build the team around him.

Again, you are totally missing the point. The veteran free agent is not supposed to "replace" Kap, he is a bridge QB for the rookie to sit behind until he is ready. Plus, I don't know why it is funny whether the guy is Fitzpatrick, Hasselbeck or whoever. Hasslebeck for instance has won more games than Andrew Luck this year.

Plus, your suggestion of converting Kap from a starting QB to a career back-up is absolutely absurd. You think Kap is just going to say sure OK no problem I will convert to a career back-up from this point on?! Do you have any idea how much back-up QBs are paid? At most no more than $5 mil and you think Kap will be more than happy to cut his package from $17 mil next season to that?! Are you serious?! LOL.You are asking the guy to cut his pay by more than 70%!! He would tell you to F off and try his luck in free agency.

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by Niners99:
The 49ers made him buy insurance for that. I think the most we would owe him is 11 mil. for a career ending injury.

Its sad to me that this fanbase never learns from the past. Weve been here before. Only 6 years ago. The fans were so convinced that everything was Alex Smith's fault, and they chanted for Carr. They got their wish, and he was AWFUL.

Same situation, different names. Gabbert would be awful. Same OL, same playcalling, but with no running ability. You think things would magically get better?

Fix the OL, fix a HUGE part of the problem. It should be priority one.

So if kaep gets hurt you'd rather pay him 11 million than sitting him and releasing him for 2

Id rather exhaust every opportunity to get Kap over the hump than give up early and be stuck with Gabbert the rest of the way, and then wait another 1-2 years for a rookie to get acclimated.

People dont see it yet, but moving on from Kap will put this team deep in the dark 2004-2005 pit. It can get even worse.

Were going to be watching Gabbert running around scared, ducking into sacks and skipping balls into the ground. The offense will get even harder to watch. People will start to realize that at least Kap had the physical talent to make plays. It will back to the days of a check down QB with no deep ball.

Don't worry about Gabbert, if he can't handle it, we will just sign a better free agent veteran in the offseason that's all. The 9ers are not going to the playoffs, our season is already over.

I tell you what, if you keep Kap we will definitely go into the dark, dark ages. We will draft a top franchise QB and sit him behind the vet for a year while rebuilding the rest of the pieces.

But, we must bench Kap right NOW. We are not going to dig a hole for ourselves, if he gets injured we will be well screwed.

As long as the right side of the OL stays the same, no QB will succeed here.

Btw, who are these "better free agents" you speak of? Good QB's arent made available.

First thing you have to remember is we are rebuilding. That means we are not all of a sudden going to become fantastic. It will take some time. We only need a veteran QB who can sustain efficient QB play that can tie us through say a season until the new rookie is ready.

As for the right side of the line, I am sure we will address it in the offseason via draft as well as free agency. We will have a tonne of cap room especially if we cut Kap. Don't worry we will find someone.

If you're going to cut Kap for another terrible FA QB to be a stop gap for a rookie, you may as well keep Kap or start the rookie. According to Rascal it's going to be a disaster either way.

Why would you pay $17 mil for a bridge QB?? LOL.

Originally posted by SJniner7:

I don't know why our coaching staff and GMs don't keep drafting QBs every year. We let our guys get too damn comfortable. There are only about 10 teams in this league who have the luxury of having good QBs. All others need to keep looking for an upgrade, just like the Niners should have been doing since 2006... Alex didn't show enough in 2005 to let him get comfortable.

We haven't ever brought in legitimate contenders to Kap or Alex. Carr? Dilfer? Gabbert? Troy Smith? Thompson? Rattay? Dorsey? who else...?

Our last 10-12 years have been dominated by coaches and GMs with a run first/defense mindset.
And the "Bell Cow" was the primary offensive weapon. You can luck into decent QB play but to sniff out a franchise QB you need to then know how to build one from the raw material that is expertly chosen. Not saying Harbs didn't try to make his mark on this but the results now point to a half baked project.

Originally posted by 5Jan2003:

Originally posted by SJniner7:
I don't know why our coaching staff and GMs don't keep drafting QBs every year. We let our guys get too damn comfortable. There are only about 10 teams in this league who have the luxury of having good QBs. All others need to keep looking for an upgrade, just like the Niners should have been doing since 2006... Alex didn't show enough in 2005 to let him get comfortable.

We haven't ever brought in legitimate contenders to Kap or Alex. Carr? Dilfer? Gabbert? Troy Smith? Thompson? Rattay? Dorsey? who else...?

Our last 10-12 years have been dominated by coaches and GMs with a run first/defense mindset.
And the "Bell Cow" was the primary offensive weapon. You can luck into decent QB play but to sniff out a franchise QB you need to then know how to build one from the raw material that is expertly chosen. Not saying Harbs didn't try to make his mark on this but the results now point to a half baked project.

Poorly executed gameplan! We need an offensive guy. I swear we have been hearing "the Niners are not built to comeback" (when down by a lot) for the last 10 years...

Originally posted by Rascal:
Again, you are totally missing the point. The veteran free agent is not supposed to "replace" Kap, he is a bridge QB for the rookie to sit behind until he is ready. Plus, I don't know why it is funny whether the guy is Fitzpatrick, Hasselbeck or whoever. Hasslebeck for instance has won more games than Andrew Luck this year.

Plus, your suggestion of converting Kap from a starting QB to a career back-up is absolutely absurd. You think Kap is just going to say sure OK no problem I will convert to a career back-up from this point on?! Do you have any idea how much back-up QBs are paid? At most no more than $5 mil and you think Kap will be more than happy to cut his package from $17 mil next season to that?! Are you serious?! LOL.You are asking the guy to cut his pay by more than 70%!! He would tell you to F off and try his luck in free agency.

Oh no I understand what you're saying...I really don't care if a 40 year old Hasslebeck squeaked out two wins against the Jags and Texans either.

I'm not saying to covert him to a backup, where did I say that? I said restructure his deal to make it more incentive based. Why can't that be a discussion?

How many teams do well with a "bridge" QB? Do we have a young QB in the making that I'm not aware of?

How great is this coaching staff at grooming a QB? So if we save $17 million and have nothing at QB who's gonna come here for FAs with the current staff we have? Baalke will have to over-pay everyone and you know he's not gonna do that.

Why can't we build the defense and OL around kap like in 2012?

Listen I'm not saying your ideas are wrong, but I wouldn't go that route...We have a QB that's capable of winning games if the team around him can at the very least do their job....I don't want to be like the Browns who draft a QB in the first round every other year only to watch yet another 1st round pick burn out.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Oh no I understand what you're saying...I really don't care if a 40 year old Hasslebeck squeaked out two wins against the Jags and Texans either.

I'm not saying to covert him to a backup, where did I say that? I said restructure his deal to make it more incentive based. Why can't that be a discussion?

How many teams do well with a "bridge" QB? Do we have a young QB in the making that I'm not aware of?

How great is this coaching staff at grooming a QB? So if we save $17 million and have nothing at QB who's gonna come here for FAs with the current staff we have? Baalke will have to over-pay everyone and you know he's not gonna do that.

Why can't we build the defense and OL around kap like in 2012?

Listen I'm not saying your ideas are wrong, but I wouldn't go that route...We have a QB that's capable of winning games if the team around him can at the very least do their job....I don't want to be like the Browns who draft a QB in the first round every other year only to watch yet another 1st round pick burn out.

Quite the contrary, I would argue people won't come here because of Kap especially after his performance this season. You don't think Torrey is regretting now?

Kap is not capable of winning games without a top 3 D, top 3 run game and a top O-line. Those were the conditions he had when he performed and dare I say a lot of QBs would be able to perform if they had all that too. So far this season, he has shown he can only beat the scrub teams, other than that not a chance.

And by negotiating down his contract, how much are you talking about? Surely, you are not talking about $1-2 mil, anything more I think Kap would tell you to F off straight up.

$20 says Gabbert at least gets this pass off to Vernon, Bush or Smith. It's a timing play that Kap fails to pull the trigger on. These are the types of plays Gabbert was making in the PS that Kap continues to fail at.

It doesn't solve the OL problems, but it does solve some of the QB problems.

That's my view, in any case.

Bottom line is, that Kaep needs to sit down..

1st of all, he's no where close to the Top Five QB for our coaching staff to worry about his feelings when he gets benched.

2ndly, he's just having an FOGLY year thus far, and we need to see if there's anybody on the team that can do the job..

It's a simple question of CAN IT GET ANY WORSE THAT HOW KAP HAS BEEN PERFORMING???

Originally posted by captveg:


$20 says Gabbert at least gets this pass off to Vernon, Bush or Smith. It's a timing play that Kap fails to pull the trigger on. These are the types of plays Gabbert was making in the PS that Kap continues to fail at.

It doesn't solve the OL problems, but it does solve some of the QB problems.

That's my view, in any case.

Kap don't believe in no check down.

Originally posted by SJniner7:

Originally posted by 5Jan2003:

Originally posted by SJniner7:

I don't know why our coaching staff and GMs don't keep drafting QBs every year. We let our guys get too damn comfortable. There are only about 10 teams in this league who have the luxury of having good QBs. All others need to keep looking for an upgrade, just like the Niners should have been doing since 2006... Alex didn't show enough in 2005 to let him get comfortable.

We haven't ever brought in legitimate contenders to Kap or Alex. Carr? Dilfer? Gabbert? Troy Smith? Thompson? Rattay? Dorsey? who else...?

Our last 10-12 years have been dominated by coaches and GMs with a run first/defense mindset.
And the "Bell Cow" was the primary offensive weapon. You can luck into decent QB play but to sniff out a franchise QB you need to then know how to build one from the raw material that is expertly chosen. Not saying Harbs didn't try to make his mark on this but the results now point to a half baked project.

Poorly executed gameplan! We need an offensive guy. I swear we have been hearing "the Niners are not built to comeback" (when down by a lot) for the last 10 years...

I'm not a Baalke hater but this is a major criticism I have with him. He comes from the Parcells school which emphasizes the running game. I believe the philosophy of the team will not change as long as Baalke is GM.Problem is the coach should dictate the philosophy not the GM. The GM is supposed to supply the pieces that fit the coaches Philosophy not dictate the philosophy and plug in his guys.

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by SJniner7:

Originally posted by 5Jan2003:

Originally posted by SJniner7:
I don't know why our coaching staff and GMs don't keep drafting QBs every year. We let our guys get too damn comfortable. There are only about 10 teams in this league who have the luxury of having good QBs. All others need to keep looking for an upgrade, just like the Niners should have been doing since 2006... Alex didn't show enough in 2005 to let him get comfortable.

We haven't ever brought in legitimate contenders to Kap or Alex. Carr? Dilfer? Gabbert? Troy Smith? Thompson? Rattay? Dorsey? who else...?

Our last 10-12 years have been dominated by coaches and GMs with a run first/defense mindset.
And the "Bell Cow" was the primary offensive weapon. You can luck into decent QB play but to sniff out a franchise QB you need to then know how to build one from the raw material that is expertly chosen. Not saying Harbs didn't try to make his mark on this but the results now point to a half baked project.

Poorly executed gameplan! We need an offensive guy. I swear we have been hearing "the Niners are not built to comeback" (when down by a lot) for the last 10 years...

I'm not a Baalke hater but this is a major criticism I have with him. He comes from the Parcells school which emphasizes the running game. I believe the philosophy of the team will not change as long as Baalke is GM.Problem is the coach should dictate the philosophy not the GM. The GM is supposed to supply the pieces that fit the coaches Philosophy not dictate the philosophy and plug in his guys.

Right, but GM hires head coach, who is usually going to share philosophy already (which was true of both Harbaugh and Tomsula).

Originally posted by captveg:

$20 says Gabbert at least gets this pass off to Vernon, Bush or Smith. It's a timing play that Kap fails to pull the trigger on. These are the types of plays Gabbert was making in the PS that Kap continues to fail at.

It doesn't solve the OL problems, but it does solve some of the QB problems.

That's my view, in any case.

And it get INT taken to he house for 6

Originally posted by Rascal:

Quite the contrary, I would argue people won't come here because of Kap especially after his performance this season. You don't think Torrey is regretting now?

Kap is not capable of winning games without a top 3 D, top 3 run game and a top O-line. Those were the conditions he had when he performed and dare I say a lot of QBs would be able to perform if they had all that too. So far this season, he has shown he can only beat the scrub teams, other than that not a chance.

And by negotiating down his contract, how much are you talking about? Surely, you are not talking about $1-2 mil, anything more I think Kap would tell you to F off straight up.

He had a top D and top running game nowhere near a top pass blocking OL....where are you gonna magically find a young QB that's gonna perform well with his team? Backups in this league are just that backups at the very least Kap has shown glimpses of a being a solid starting QB.

Kap was fine when we actually had a coaching staff. as long as we keep who's calling the plays around its not gonna matter who's QB....agrue all you want about how Kap sucks but he played well under harbs and most qbs in this league need a decent defense and a OL that can block a four man rush.

How do you know he'd tell me to F off? You can give him a reduced base salary with incentives that could make him more...does he not think he can play at a high enough level to make more money? If not then he should go.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by Niners99:

The 49ers made him buy insurance for that. I think the most we would owe him is 11 mil. for a career ending injury.

Its sad to me that this fanbase never learns from the past. Weve been here before. Only 6 years ago. The fans were so convinced that everything was Alex Smith's fault, and they chanted for Carr. They got their wish, and he was AWFUL.

Same situation, different names. Gabbert would be awful. Same OL, same playcalling, but with no running ability. You think things would magically get better?

Fix the OL, fix a HUGE part of the problem. It should be priority one.

So if kaep gets hurt you'd rather pay him 11 million than sitting him and releasing him for 2

Id rather exhaust every opportunity to get Kap over the hump than give up early and be stuck with Gabbert the rest of the way, and then wait another 1-2 years for a rookie to get acclimated.

People dont see it yet, but moving on from Kap will put this team deep in the dark 2004-2005 pit. It can get even worse.

Were going to be watching Gabbert running around scared, ducking into sacks and skipping balls into the ground. The offense will get even harder to watch. People will start to realize that at least Kap had the physical talent to make plays. It will back to the days of a check down QB with no deep ball.

Don't worry about Gabbert, if he can't handle it, we will just sign a better free agent veteran in the offseason that's all. The 9ers are not going to the playoffs, our season is already over.

I tell you what, if you keep Kap we will definitely go into the dark, dark ages. We will draft a top franchise QB and sit him behind the vet for a year while rebuilding the rest of the pieces.

But, we must bench Kap right NOW. We are not going to dig a hole for ourselves, if he gets injured we will be well screwed.

As long as the right side of the OL stays the same, no QB will succeed here.

Btw, who are these "better free agents" you speak of? Good QB's arent made available.

First thing you have to remember is we are rebuilding. That means we are not all of a sudden going to become fantastic. It will take some time. We only need a veteran QB who can sustain efficient QB play that can tie us through say a season until the new rookie is ready.

As for the right side of the line, I am sure we will address it in the offseason via draft as well as free agency. We will have a tonne of cap room especially if we cut Kap. Don't worry we will find someone.

If you're going to cut Kap for another terrible FA QB to be a stop gap for a rookie, you may as well keep Kap or start the rookie. According to Rascal it's going to be a disaster either way.

Why would you pay $17 mil for a bridge QB?? LOL.

Why are you worried about it? Wasn't aware you were cutting checks.