Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

Where's your evidence he couldn't? You're the one making the claims he couldn't do it, even though he went to the NFCCG the year before, and had the team basically locked in for the playoffs...

My evidence? His career. His record against playoff teams. The fact that his teams are nothing without a top 5 defense.

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
You have zero ground to stand on if you think Alex couldn't have taken the team to the Super Bowl.

Your position makes complete sense now. I'm not at all surprised.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
My evidence? His career. His record against playoff teams. The fact that his teams are nothing without a top 5 defense.

Isn't it funny that you have to argue what has and did happen versus what could have or would have happened. Alex would have done better. Alex could have done better. Gabbert would have done better. Gabbert can do better. Kaep HAS done it though, but none of that matters.

You can't argue what has happened with what a person's idea of what "could" or "would" have happened.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Where's your evidence he couldn't? You're the one making the claims he couldn't do it, even though he went to the NFCCG the year before, and had the team basically locked in for the playoffs...

My evidence? His career. His record against playoff teams. The fact that his teams are nothing without a top 5 defense.

Huh. Same can be said about Kap. What a surprise.

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
My evidence? His career. His record against playoff teams. The fact that his teams are nothing without a top 5 defense.

Isn't it funny that you have to argue what has and did happen versus what could have or would have happened. Alex would have done better. Alex could have done better. Gabbert would have done better. Gabbert can do better. Kaep HAS done it though, but none of that matters.

You can't argue what has happened with what a person's idea of what "could" or "would" have happened.

No, you like to argue Kap is the only one who could have done it, when Alex went to the NFCCG the year before, and by all accounts was going to do it again. But whatever, enjoy your blind love for Kap. Any objective person can look at his "skillset" and understand why he's struggling.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Where's your evidence he couldn't? You're the one making the claims he couldn't do it, even though he went to the NFCCG the year before, and had the team basically locked in for the playoffs...

My evidence? His career. His record against playoff teams. The fact that his teams are nothing without a top 5 defense.

This is like saying Russ Wilson could never win the SB without a top 5 defense. Who cares? There's only a few teams now who have QB's that are great enough to overcome avg defenses to go on and win it all.

Alex is a smart QB. Doesn't turn the ball over a lot and that helps his team win games.

Kap has dynamic abilities but doesn't make smart choices most of the time. Forcing turnovers. That doesn't help the team win.

Both would need great defenses to win it all, like most QB in the league would.

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
No, you like to argue Kap is the only one who could have done it, when Alex went to the NFCCG the year before, and by all accounts was going to do it again. But whatever, enjoy your blind love for Kap. Any objective person can look at his "skillset" and understand why he's struggling.

Err when did I say that? And I love how you can see into the future and the future always seems to align with your slanted views. Alex would have won, Kaep would not have. It's a silly argument. Both QB's put up similar numbers. Both QBs need a great D to win consistently. What is your argument again? Alex had his chance to go to the SB and couldn't get it done. Maybe he will get it done in the future, but this whole notion of "oh, he WOULD" have done this that or the other is downright silly.

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

No, you like to argue Kap is the only one who could have done it, when Alex went to the NFCCG the year before, and by all accounts was going to do it again. But whatever, enjoy your blind love for Kap. Any objective person can look at his "skillset" and understand why he's struggling.

Err when did I say that? And I love how you can see into the future and the future always seems to align with your slanted views. Alex would have won, Kaep would not have. It's a silly argument. Both QB's put up similar numbers. Both QBs need a great D to win consistently. What is your argument again? Alex had his chance to go to the SB and couldn't get it done. Maybe he will get it done in the future, but this whole notion of "oh, he WOULD" have done this that or the other is downright silly.

As is the notion Alex wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl, just like the notion Gabbert couldn't without that team around him. What a coincidence.

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
I'm not claiming anything. He literally says it. On the grounds that Gabbert played poorly on a bad Jags team, which is completely different than the 2011-2013 49ers. My "assumption" is based on logical reasoning. If Kap went to the Super Bowl with a great team, AND Kap played horribly on a bad team, while Gabbert played better on that horrible team, then it stands to reason Gabbert could go to the Super Bowl with a great team...

Let me explain it to you in another way. If you have two chefs, and one makes a great soup with great ingredients, and a horrible soup with horrible ingredients, but another chef makes a better soup with horrible ingredients, it stands to reason that with great ingredients, the second chef will make a better soup than the first chef. Why? Because producing a better soup with horrible ingredients is indicative of a greater mastery of his craft.

And sorry, bud. You've got your Pro Bowls confused. Both Staley and Iupati were named starters. And don't forget about Vernon Davis, who went in 2009 and again in 2014. Oh yea, and Randy Moss. But I guess we're going to argue that good defensive players don't help an offense, now, right? Because a defense couldn't possibly help a young QB out, right? Forcing a three and out and keeping them from scoring couldn't possibly help out a young QB, right? Or when your young QB goes 3 and out, a punter doesn't help the offense by helping the defense keep the opponent pinned deep, right?

God forbid you encompass an entire TEAM when you say the term All Pro TEAM, right?

Absolutely ludicrous I even have to argue the merits of a good defense and special teams unit, considering that was our ENTIRE philosophy for those years.

Your first post is entire assumption. It is not logic, it is not demonstrably true i.e. it is your opinion based on what you believe and not based upon events which transpired. You cannot prove or know for certain that Gabbert would have performed as well or matched Kap, it is pure supposition.

Not only that, your statement about Gabbert playing better on the same horrible team is demonstrably untrue as the weakest link of that OLine (Devey) was benched upon transition to Gabbert. Nor does your version take into account rather basic factors such as improvement in player performance based upon more experience within the scheme and experience of assignments, nor the fact that Gabbert faced the weaker defenses.

You claimed an All Pro team - I refer you to this http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/1/12/3868980/nfl-all-pro-team-2012-49ers-justin-smith-aldon-smith-patrick-willis-navorro-bowman which documents our All-pros from the 2012 season. The Pro-bowl is entirely devalued as it is based upon votes from fans.

For comparison Alex Smith's team had 5 All-pros in 2011, Iupati and Staley did not make it but were both playing in 2011, as was Vernon Davis. By your logic Alex Smith should also have made super bowl appearance - and remember our defense led the league in turn-overs in 2011 so Alex saw a lot of short fields.

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
I'm not claiming anything. He literally says it. On the grounds that Gabbert played poorly on a bad Jags team, which is completely different than the 2011-2013 49ers. My "assumption" is based on logical reasoning. If Kap went to the Super Bowl with a great team, AND Kap played horribly on a bad team, while Gabbert played better on that horrible team, then it stands to reason Gabbert could go to the Super Bowl with a great team...

Let me explain it to you in another way. If you have two chefs, and one makes a great soup with great ingredients, and a horrible soup with horrible ingredients, but another chef makes a better soup with horrible ingredients, it stands to reason that with great ingredients, the second chef will make a better soup than the first chef. Why? Because producing a better soup with horrible ingredients is indicative of a greater mastery of his craft.

And sorry, bud. You've got your Pro Bowls confused. Both Staley and Iupati were named starters. And don't forget about Vernon Davis, who went in 2009 and again in 2014. Oh yea, and Randy Moss. But I guess we're going to argue that good defensive players don't help an offense, now, right? Because a defense couldn't possibly help a young QB out, right? Forcing a three and out and keeping them from scoring couldn't possibly help out a young QB, right? Or when your young QB goes 3 and out, a punter doesn't help the offense by helping the defense keep the opponent pinned deep, right?

God forbid you encompass an entire TEAM when you say the term All Pro TEAM, right?

Absolutely ludicrous I even have to argue the merits of a good defense and special teams unit, considering that was our ENTIRE philosophy for those years.

Your first post is entire assumption. It is not logic, it is not demonstrably true i.e. it is your opinion based on what you believe and not based upon events which transpired. You cannot prove or know for certain that Gabbert would have performed as well or matched Kap, it is pure supposition.

Not only that, your statement about Gabbert playing better on the same horrible team is demonstrably untrue as the weakest link of that OLine (Devey) was benched upon transition to Gabbert. Nor does your version take into account rather basic factors such as improvement in player performance based upon more experience within the scheme and experience of assignments, nor the fact that Gabbert faced the weaker defenses.

You claimed an All Pro team - I refer you to this http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/1/12/3868980/nfl-all-pro-team-2012-49ers-justin-smith-aldon-smith-patrick-willis-navorro-bowman which documents our All-pros from the 2012 season. The Pro-bowl is entirely devalued as it is based upon votes from fans.

Whatever you say. We didn't have a perrenially good team when Kap took over... It was all Kap. Too bad when we don't have an All Pro team, he plays like sh!t.

OMG Devey! Well, again, Kap had Hyde and VD. Gabbert had Draughn and a bunch of guys that got injured. But completely ignore that. Oh yea... and Gabbert played with Devey, too. So there goes that nonsense argument.

And I've already explained to you, my "assumption" is based on logic. I'm not going to keep explaining it simply because you do not understand logic based hypothesis.

Originally posted by SoCold:

This is like saying Russ Wilson could never win the SB without a top 5 defense. Who cares? There's only a few teams now who have QB's that are great enough to overcome avg defenses to go on and win it all.

Alex is a smart QB. Doesn't turn the ball over a lot and that helps his team win games.

Kap has dynamic abilities but doesn't make smart choices most of the time. Forcing turnovers. That doesn't help the team win.

Both would need great defenses to win it all, like most QB in the league would.

Russ makes big plays though. They both don't throw a lot, but Russ does more with his attempts.

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

Huh. Same can be said about Kap. What a surprise.

Really? Was our defense playing at a top 5 level during the playoff run that Kap carried us to the SB?

Originally posted by SoCold:

This is like saying Russ Wilson could never win the SB without a top 5 defense. Who cares? There's only a few teams now who have QB's that are great enough to overcome avg defenses to go on and win it all.

Alex is a smart QB. Doesn't turn the ball over a lot and that helps his team win games.

Kap has dynamic abilities but doesn't make smart choices most of the time. Forcing turnovers. That doesn't help the team win.

Both would need great defenses to win it all, like most QB in the league would.

And i was saying he couldn't have carried that broken defense through a playoff run. It's pretty clear when you look at his career

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by SoCold:

This is like saying Russ Wilson could never win the SB without a top 5 defense. Who cares? There's only a few teams now who have QB's that are great enough to overcome avg defenses to go on and win it all.

Alex is a smart QB. Doesn't turn the ball over a lot and that helps his team win games.

Kap has dynamic abilities but doesn't make smart choices most of the time. Forcing turnovers. That doesn't help the team win.

Both would need great defenses to win it all, like most QB in the league would.

Russ makes big plays though. They both don't throw a lot, but Russ does more with his attempts.

And kap hasn't? Didn't he light up greenbay for like 400 yards? Who was it that took over the game in the NFCCG against Atlanta when we couldn't run the football? Who beat greenbay in greenbay? Who beat Carolina in Carolina? Ppl quickly forget what this guy has done, it's really a shame he getting a raw deal here

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Huh. Same can be said about Kap. What a surprise.

Really? Was our defense playing at a top 5 level during the playoff run that Kap carried us to the SB?

You mean the one that held the Flacons to ZERO points in the second half? Or the Packers to 10 points in the second half? Even better, held the pack to 17 points in the last 3 quarters of that game.

I swear, this argument is the dumbest you guys use. It's not like the bottom feeder teams are in the playoffs. They're the best teams with the best offenses in the NFL, and they're usually on a roll by the time the playoffs hit.

I wonder how the defense played getting Kap to the playoffs in the first place? Or would you like to continue ignoring that because you're so blinded by Kap's naked magazine covers?