49ers Offensive Line

To add to Phoenix's point :

Also, most coaches will tell you that the defense is always ahead of the offense early in the season, and that the last piece of an offense to come together is usually its pass protection, because of the required unison between several players.

Geoff Schwartz, a seventh-round draft pick out of Oregon in 2008, played eight seasons in the NFL (including two with the Giants) and recalls needing a few months as a rookie to master his three-point stance, and then having to re-work it in the offseason with the help of veteran teammate Jordan Gross. But he was on the practice squad his first season, so he had time to adjust.

"In college, there is so much misdirection, and the tempo is so fast at times, you don't even have to really block anybody because the defense is so tired," Schwartz said. "What we've really lost in college is the idea of finishing. In the NFL, you have to finish to be an elite offensive lineman. In college, your goal is to get back to the line of scrimmage and snap the ball again. The mentality of not finishing in college hurts you when you get to the NFL."

Nick Hardwick, who played 11 seasons as the Chargers' center before retiring in 2014, suggests another theory for the decline in play. "I've talked to some nose tackles and defensive tackles around the league who say the craftiness from offensive linemen is dissipating," he said. "Guys understand the basics of the game—hat placement, eye placement, footwork, hands—but they don't understand the nuances that take their game to the next level. The subtleties of having a personal game plan for how to set up your opponent, so you are not countering his moves, he's countering yours."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/12/trouble-nfl-offensive-linemen-new-york-giants-seattle-seahawks-week-1-no-touchdowns

Originally posted by evil:

To add to Phoenix's point :

Also, most coaches will tell you that the defense is always ahead of the offense early in the season, and that the last piece of an offense to come together is usually its pass protection, because of the required unison between several players.

Geoff Schwartz, a seventh-round draft pick out of Oregon in 2008, played eight seasons in the NFL (including two with the Giants) and recalls needing a few months as a rookie to master his three-point stance, and then having to re-work it in the offseason with the help of veteran teammate Jordan Gross. But he was on the practice squad his first season, so he had time to adjust.

"In college, there is so much misdirection, and the tempo is so fast at times, you don't even have to really block anybody because the defense is so tired," Schwartz said. "What we've really lost in college is the idea of finishing. In the NFL, you have to finish to be an elite offensive lineman. In college, your goal is to get back to the line of scrimmage and snap the ball again. The mentality of not finishing in college hurts you when you get to the NFL."

Nick Hardwick, who played 11 seasons as the Chargers' center before retiring in 2014, suggests another theory for the decline in play. "I've talked to some nose tackles and defensive tackles around the league who say the craftiness from offensive linemen is dissipating," he said. "Guys understand the basics of the game—hat placement, eye placement, footwork, hands—but they don't understand the nuances that take their game to the next level. The subtleties of having a personal game plan for how to set up your opponent, so you are not countering his moves, he's countering yours."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/12/trouble-nfl-offensive-linemen-new-york-giants-seattle-seahawks-week-1-no-touchdowns

Let's not confuse "talent" with "NFL-ready." The claim is there is a shortage of talent.

These are very clear examples of lack of development and technique coming into the NFL and I could not agree more with that. In fact, the lack of mindset to finish blocks is something I've noted with us this off season. Garland in particular but young players in general. They'll seal, turn out and get the right angle for a second and then just stop, stand there, giving the DL an extra second to recover and plug the hole. Go watch our first string in the 3rd pre season game and you'll see why we couldn't run inside.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The league wide shortage IMHO is top developmental NFL coaches. Dante Scarnecchia is the absolute best in the game and the true secret x-factor behind so much of their success with his ability to ID talent and develop them over 16 games and help hit their strides come playoffs. If anything, they have proven you can find "talent" all over the board and via trade and every outlet to acquisitions.

Now, can you name the second best OL coach?

I keep saying this - you can't compare many teams to NE because they have a rock solid SYSTEM - both game planning and development much like back when we were able to take low picks with McKittrick and create great lines. As long as it was a McKittrick coaches line, there was some level of stability - even with backups.

Benson isn't really getting the job done at least from what I can tell in the McKittrick vein hence the reason why Forrester is a "consultant." The last time the 49ers has a great coached OL was under Drevno and when he left it went to s**t. Having a great OL coach is just as significant to me as having a great QB coach; they not only coach up current guys but ID great prospects. That's exactly how we found UDFA Mullens who beat out 4th round pick Beathard.

That's been one of my pet peeves on offense. Do we need to look for a replacement for Benton? I think we do if he hasn't improved that OLine this year and developed the youngsters that are on the team right now. Forrester might be a candidate as a replacement for Benton, but there are other coaches out there as well. Time for GM Lynch to start scouring the country for a good OLine coach.

Personally, I'd rather have Alex Gibbs as the consultant vs Forrester, but you take what you can get.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

So the NFL only has one stud OL coach?

That's how you read that?

Considering the current discussion. How good was the McG pick

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Considering the current discussion. How good was the McG pick

Freaking phenomenal. A 4 year starter, captain, insane work ethic and love for the game, played next to Nelson (get a feel for what a dominant OL can accomplish) AND real NFL coaching at the college game. Fantastic pick and then he comes here and gets trained on the finer technique by a HOF T. Unreal.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Considering the current discussion. How good was the McG pick

Freaking phenomenal. A 4 year starter, captain, insane work ethic and love for the game, played next to Nelson (get a feel for what a dominant OL can accomplish) AND real NFL coaching at the college game. Fantastic pick and then he comes here and gets trained on the finer technique by a HOF T. Unreal.

Maybe Staley can be our OLine coach when he retires.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Let's not confuse "talent" with "NFL-ready." The claim is there is a shortage of talent.

These are very clear examples of lack of development and technique coming into the NFL and I could not agree more with that. In fact, the lack of mindset to finish blocks is something I've noted with us this off season. Garland in particular but young players in general. They'll seal, turn out and get the right angle for a second and then just stop, stand there, giving the DL an extra second to recover and plug the hole. Go watch our first string in the 3rd pre season game and you'll see why we couldn't run inside.

Its both. Talent and readiness. If you're a super athletic big guy, playing defense requires a lot less skill. The DL's are bigger and faster than they've ever been and the OL are less skilled and less savvy than they've ever been.


Look at the Combine this year. Quinnen Williams ran a 4.83 40 at 300+ pounds. How many OL are doing the same? DL's coming in are a lot more athletic while the OL's largely lack the basic skills to be able to block them effectively in a conventional NFL offense.



There is a small number of schools still churning out pro ready linemen. Places like Notre Dame along with Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan and Michigan State. Basically the Big 10 is still doing things right as far as OL go. If I had to wager why the 49ers didn't pull the trigger on more OL's, its because I think they are largely looking at guys coming out of those schools and who would fit their offense well.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Pretty much anyone that coaches/scouts OL has been saying the same thing for years. Its not a recent thing, there has been a dramatic shortfall of OL talent in the NFL for about a decade now. Fewer and fewer linemen are coming out of college prepared to play at the NFL level.

Its also an issue of talent. The better, more athletic big guys are flocking to the defensive side as its easier to get by with just sheer athletic ability.

Now that the Visine has kicked in, I fully agree with the first part and appreciate the copy/pastes.

The second part on talent doesn't seem to hold given the number of drafted OL continuing to insert into OL's and playing well. The quantity and quality seems to be on par with past drafts and hits so far (I believe).

That said, that is a great point about the movement to the defensive side. If that is indeed true, that could start to have profound effects on the talent pool in the near future.

What are your thoughts on the league as it stands right now...the furure?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Considering the current discussion. How good was the McG pick

Freaking phenomenal. A 4 year starter, captain, insane work ethic and love for the game, played next to Nelson (get a feel for what a dominant OL can accomplish) AND real NFL coaching at the college game. Fantastic pick and then he comes here and gets trained on the finer technique by a HOF T. Unreal.

Maybe Staley can be our OLine coach when he retires.

Honestly, he would be unreal as a coach. I would love that.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Considering the current discussion. How good was the McG pick

Freaking phenomenal. A 4 year starter, captain, insane work ethic and love for the game, played next to Nelson (get a feel for what a dominant OL can accomplish) AND real NFL coaching at the college game. Fantastic pick and then he comes here and gets trained on the finer technique by a HOF T. Unreal.

Maybe Staley can be our OLine coach when he retires.

Honestly, he would be unreal as a coach. I would love that.

Wow! Well come to think of it, he does have the coaching chops, I mean he's played in man blocking and now he's doing fantastic in zone blocking. Coach Monte Clark (former 49er OLineman) was HC here in '76 and a lot of the '81 OLinemen were either acquired by him in '76 or developed by him in '76 before McKittrick got on board in '79. I"m thinking Coach Staley - having played both styles, would be a great coach for Kyle, should that ever happen.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

It's not just NE. The Saints tend to consistently develop and produce good OLs, so do the Steelers for the most part.

It's clear that some teams are adapting. Being NFL ready doesn't mean the game and the development of players hasn't shifted. You could make the same argument for QB - how so few QBs are NFL-ready, yet it's no coincidence that head coaching prospects are offensive-minded QB guys who can spot and develop or fix a team's QB situation.

The Saints also have Drew Brees who is probably second only to Brady in terms of how quickly he gets rid of the football. Maybe that part is just a coincidence.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

It's not just NE. The Saints tend to consistently develop and produce good OLs, so do the Steelers for the most part.

It's clear that some teams are adapting. Being NFL ready doesn't mean the game and the development of players hasn't shifted. You could make the same argument for QB - how so few QBs are NFL-ready, yet it's no coincidence that head coaching prospects are offensive-minded QB guys who can spot and develop or fix a team's QB situation.

True. So many "athletic QB's" coming in. Talent is still there. But can your staff develop him as an NFL QB (HaRoman = No / Reid+Alex Smith = Yes).

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

The Saints also have Drew Brees who is probably second only to Brady in terms of how quickly he gets rid of the football. Maybe that part is just a coincidence.

True. Time to Throw stats are a blast. Breeze is ridiculous at 2.56 and Brady at 2.62. And it's not just getting rid of the ball so quickly either (because they know where to go instantly). It's checking to the right calls, making sure your line is checked to the right protections, etc.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Wow! Well come to think of it, he does have the coaching chops, I mean he's played in man blocking and now he's doing fantastic in zone blocking. Coach Monte Clark (former 49er OLineman) was HC here in '76 and a lot of the '81 OLinemen were either acquired by him in '76 or developed by him in '76 before McKittrick got on board in '79. I"m thinking Coach Staley - having played both styles, would be a great coach for Kyle, should that ever happen.

That and he's a leader and a HUGE technician which is key to coaching...something I feel we might be lacking.