49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Hopper:

That actually crossed my mind when Gilliam entered the game. We were one injury away from probably seeing DJ Jones on the Oline.

My guess is that Shon Coleman will be active for the next game.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
#Facts

Only way to win in football is by being really big.

Yes, that would be my bet. I would go big with my personnel and play a very physical brand of football.

But, hey that's just me or someone like Kyle might prefer to go small with speed.

But, if you are able to drive all the way down to the goal line and you can't punch it in, that is an issue.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Yes, that would be my bet. I would go big with my personnel and play a very physical brand of football.

But, hey that's just me or someone like Kyle might prefer to go small with speed.

But, if you are able to drive all the way down to the goal line and you can't punch it in, that is an issue.

Minnesota had the top redzone defense in football last year. Meanwhile this is a blocking scheme that has produced countless thousand yard rushers while utilizing smaller linemen.


There is no one right or wrong scheme, anything you do will have its pros and cons.

"Big people beat up little people." -Chip Kelly

Originally posted by Rascal:

Guys, you can never have a dominant O-line like the one we had when we were in a power scheme under Harbaugh.

It isn't the linemen's fault, it is how Kyle wants his linemen to look like.

Just look at Garnett, the poor sod must have taken 50 lbs off in order to satisfy Kyle's requirement. The guy literally looks like a mal-nutrition refugee now!

Bottom line, you can't have a stout O-line when you are shrinking the size of your personnel.

Unfortunately we are a finesse team. Can probably rack up tons of yardage, but will struggle inside the 10

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Rascal:
Guys, you can never have a dominant O-line like the one we had when we were in a power scheme under Harbaugh.

It isn't the linemen's fault, it is how Kyle wants his linemen to look like.

Just look at Garnett, the poor sod must have taken 50 lbs off in order to satisfy Kyle's requirement. The guy literally looks like a mal-nutrition refugee now!

Bottom line, you can't have a stout O-line when you are shrinking the size of your personnel.

Again, I don't think anyone is pushing limits here. We're not asking for a dominant OL - or at least I'm not. I'm not even looking for all pro-bowlers. I'd settle for solid starter who can make it through at least 10 games a season without needing to be rushed to the medical tent. When did asking for someone who could just hold their own, not blow everyone off the LOS become such a tall order?

I get what you're saying tho - yes this OL is more of a finesse scheme, but that doesn't mean it's an all or nothing approach. I believe you have to fight with the army you have sometimes and create a bridge to the future in order to protect your FQB. You may have to endure another season where you're just not able to run certain parts of your offense in order to keep your QB upright. That might mean a personnel choice of today but a change tomorrow.

Brown had the same problem - generally unreliable and bad scheme fit. Maybe the trade woke him up but it's still early. A great scheme fit but again unreliable, IMHO is a little better, but ultimately a similar result. Garnett doesn't need to be dominant, he needs to just play. But again they never envisioned Garnett or Person to start. Cooper was their hope.

But, that is my point, is hard to ask for the line or the linemen to hold their own when you are small and facing a top dominant physical D-line like the Vikings. Is just impossible. The line was seriously getting worked on while Jimmy G was getting killed.

Just as well you mentioned Trent Brown. I hold a completely opposite view. Did you watch the Pats/Texans game? They were doing a highlight on Trent Brown on how much of a beast he was in stopping all the pass rush thereby giving Tom Brady plenty of time to throw!! That was why I was so pissed off as we literally gift-wrapped him and gave him away to the Pats.

Why don't I just cut to the chase? I just don't like the Zone Blocking Scheme, one I don't think we are running the ball particularly better and two our O-line personnel has been massively compromised for pass protection as a result of losing so much size.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

No. That is a mistake.

Originally posted by English:

We just do not spend enough resource on the O line. And, Davis/Iupati excepting, we never seem to. Very nice to pick up other team's cast offs but it often doesnt work.The 2 lines are fundamental and I have no idea why we never treat the O as we should.

man, i couldn't have put it better. You just can't chintz on the OL...esp when you have your FR QB.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Minnesota had the top redzone defense in football last year. Meanwhile this is a blocking scheme that has produced countless thousand yard rushers while utilizing smaller linemen.

There is no one right or wrong scheme, anything you do will have its pros and cons.

We had a thousand yard rusher aka Frank Gore under Harbaugh's power scheme. In fact, we were absolutely creaming it. Most teams knew the 9ers would maul you. The 2011/2012 9ers squad demanded huge respect from people.

Originally posted by Rascal:

But, that is my point, is hard to ask for the line or the linemen to hold their own when you are small and facing a top dominant physical D-line like the Vikings. Is just impossible. The line was seriously getting worked on while Jimmy G was getting killed.

Just as well you mentioned Trent Brown. I hold a completely opposite view. Did you watch the Pats/Texans game? They were doing a highlight on Trent Brown on how much of a beast he was in stopping all the pass rush thereby giving Tom Brady plenty of time to throw!! That was why I was so pissed off as we literally gift-wrapped him and gave him away to the Pats.

Why don't I just cut to the chase? I just don't like the Zone Blocking Scheme, one I don't think we are running the ball particularly better and two our O-line personnel has been massively compromised for pass protection as a result of losing so much size.

Staley is 295 pounds. Do you think he has pass protection issues? In anycase, when was this ever a great pass protection OL? They never ranked better than 27th during the Harbaugh days. That was a dominant run blocking line and a subpar pass blocking OL.

I just don't like the Zone Blocking Scheme

Weren't you clamoring for Shanahan to get hired? You didn't think a ZBS comes with the territory?

Originally posted by Rascal:

We had a thousand yard rusher aka Frank Gore under Harbaugh's power scheme. In fact, we were absolutely creaming it. Most teams knew the 9ers would maul you. The 2011/2012 9ers squad demanded huge respect from people.

Justin Forsett ran for almost 1,300 yards in Baltimore's ZBS under Kubiak. Alfred Morris ran for 1,600 yards under Shanahan. Arian Foster ran for 1,600 yards in the same ZBS.


There is no right or wrong scheme, its about how you apply it.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Staley is 295 pounds. Do you think he has pass protection issues? In anycase, when was this ever a great pass protection OL? They never ranked better than 27th during the Harbaugh days. That was a dominant run blocking line and a subpar pass blocking OL.

Weren't you clamoring for Shanahan to get hired? You didn't think a ZBS comes with the territory?

OK, 2 things, that particular line under Harbaugh was better at run blocking. But, my point is you need a bigger line to be better at pass protection. Just ask Trent Brown, the guy was getting featured during the Pats game in how much of a beast he was in stopping all the pass rush from getting to Brady thereby giving him time to throw. Joe Staley might be an exception, but by and large you want bigger linemen to stone-wall the opposing D-line.

I seriously didn't know ZBS would be this bad. I totally underestimated its effect on the changes on the O-line.

Linval Joseph is a brick wall. It's hard to move that guy regardless of what scheme you run.

I said it when we cut him (which very much surprised me) and I'll say it again...should have kept Cooper on he roster. I get it hindsight is 20/20 but carrying 5 guards in this case (JG being a major wildcard and Person having occasional suckage issues) probably wasn't a bad idea. I really hope hey are on the phone to the guy right now and he is still recovering and keeping himself in shape.

Originally posted by Rascal:

OK, 2 things, that particular line under Harbaugh was better at run blocking.

And got beat by a Seattle team that had an undersized OL which was poor at pass blocking but thrived at run blocking in a ZBS scheme and getting Lynch holes to get into the open field and rumble.

Mike Shanahan had a different 1,000 yard rusher nearly every year despite his OLs being undersized. Kyle has consistently had success running the football.


The key to the ZBS is that there is an especially big emphasis on communication. Everyone needs to be on the same page. The 49ers have made moves to improve OL stability with long term starters in Richburg and McGlinchey. More work remains to be done.

But, my point is you need a bigger line to be better at pass protection.

You really don't. Some of the very best pass blockers weren't exactly size monsters. The main difference between a ZBS and a gap blocking scheme is in the run game. Statistically there is no real difference in pass blocking. Good pass blocking OLs, regardless of scheme, tend to pass block well. Poor pass blocking OLs, regardless of scheme, pass block poorly.

A lot of pass blocking has to do with footwork and technique, you're not trying to overpower the DL, just keep your feeet moving and keep them in front of you. Having a strong punch is essential but you don't need to be massive to deliver one either.

I seriously didn't know ZBS would be this bad. I totally underestimated its effect on the changes on the O-line.

Transitioning to a ZBS usually takes some time. It is not an instant process, especially when you still have moving pieces on the OL. The 49ers are a lot closer to stability than they were last season but still need further upgrades at guard.

Originally posted by kansasninerfan:

I said it when we cut him (which very much surprised me) and I'll say it again...should have kept Cooper on he roster. I get it hindsight is 20/20 but carrying 5 guards in this case (JG being a major wildcard and Person having occasional suckage issues) probably wasn't a bad idea. I really hope hey are on the phone to the guy right now and he is still recovering and keeping himself in shape.

Cooper still wasn't walking without limping. Did you watch him in the preseason? His lateral movement was shot.