49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
No. That is a mistake.

Originally posted by English:
We just do not spend enough resource on the O line. And, Davis/Iupati excepting, we never seem to. Very nice to pick up other team's cast offs but it often doesnt work.The 2 lines are fundamental and I have no idea why we never treat the O as we should.

man, i couldn't have put it better. You just can't chintz on the OL...esp when you have your FR QB.

But you can't just throw money at the problem either--or high draft picks. Look at the o-line under Singletary the year Iupati and Davis were drafted--Singletary's last year in part because the o-line , with two new starters, had no chemistry.

Bottom line: its not easy to rebuild a team or to build a cohesive and effective o-line. If it was easy, Tomsula and Baalke would still be here.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

But you can't just throw money at the problem either--or high draft picks. Look at the o-line under Singletary the year Iupati and Davis were drafted--Singletary's last year in part because the o-line , with two new starters, had no chemistry.

Bottom line: its not easy to rebuild a team or to build a cohesive and effective o-line. If it was easy, Tomsula and Baalke would still be here.

One thing I will agree on is that the 49ers should have signed Josh Sitton. He was out there in FA, had experience in a zone scheme, is a high quality guard and looked good blocking for Frank Gore yesterday in Miami. Adding him to this OL would have removed any major question marks, they would have been solid all the way from left to right.


That was my biggest disappointment of the offseason. I think they bought into Cooper, an injury prone guard, far too much. When you are paying a QB like Garoppolo that much money, the worst thing you can do is be like Seattle or Indy and get cheap when it comes to quality pass blocking.

Originally posted by kansasninerfan:
I said it when we cut him (which very much surprised me) and I'll say it again...should have kept Cooper on he roster. I get it hindsight is 20/20 but carrying 5 guards in this case (JG being a major wildcard and Person having occasional suckage issues) probably wasn't a bad idea. I really hope hey are on the phone to the guy right now and he is still recovering and keeping himself in shape.

I believe Cooper is still a free agent, but has not totally mended from his injuries.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
We're already using Mitchell as a FB. Might as well give him a look at guard at this point.

Somewhere, Tom Cable is smiling.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
But you can't just throw money at the problem either--or high draft picks. Look at the o-line under Singletary the year Iupati and Davis were drafted--Singletary's last year in part because the o-line , with two new starters, had no chemistry.

Bottom line: its not easy to rebuild a team or to build a cohesive and effective o-line. If it was easy, Tomsula and Baalke would still be here.

One thing I will agree on is that the 49ers should have signed Josh Sitton. He was out there in FA, had experience in a zone scheme, is a high quality guard and looked good blocking for Frank Gore yesterday in Miami. Adding him to this OL would have removed any major question marks, they would have been solid all the way from left to right.

That was my biggest disappointment of the offseason. I think they bought into Cooper, an injury prone guard, far too much. When you are paying a QB like Garoppolo that much money, the worst thing you can do is be like Seattle or Indy and get cheap when it comes to quality pass blocking.

Do we know if they tried to sign Sitton? Before they signed Cooper? What did Sitton sign for at Miami and for how long?They threw $5M away on Cooper--so it seems likely they were willing to make a competative offer to Sitton. Oh well--20/20 hindsight.

I'm not ready to give up on Person and Garnett--they have a new example of team sacrifice and leadership to live up to. And he's just a rookie.

Originally posted by LarryLestersBuns:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Bluesbro:

Originally posted by English:
We just do not spend enough resource on the O line. And, Davis/Iupati excepting, we never seem to. Very nice to pick up other team's cast offs but it often doesnt work.The 2 lines are fundamental and I have no idea why we never treat the O as we should.

They use their #1 draft pick on the O line They also got someone in FA. Should they have done more, or got someone other than Cooper at Guard? Hindsight is always perfect, compared to foresight.

Well, it wasnt just hindsight. Should they have done more? Yes. We never seem to do enough on the O line. Yes, we used a 1st rounder on a tackle but immediately traded away a tackle. So we were still stuck with Gilliam and with Staley ageing. So was it enough? Of course not, and that wasnt hindsight. Trouble was, most of the team needed improvement. But I would always start with the lines (and qb).

100% agreed...esp. once you have a FQB.

Two guards get injured in the same game. And the FA they went after hadn't healed yet either. I would counter that they had the bodies, just not the right ones maybe. Or just bad luck.

The issue is what's grounded in philosophy. The 'idea' that they can get by with average G's in this day and age, is counter to all the great interior DL we play. Guys like Person, Garnett, Tomlinson and Cooper are average on a good day; and average players at this level are probably average b/c they can't stay healthy or gain momentum enough to grow/develop. And these were players the coaching staff new were average at best and they acquired them; they just had a season with Fusco and had a nice baseline. They banked on a premier C and two good to great tackles (potentially) to make up for average G play. And now that philosophy failed already...in week 1 and Garoppolo paid the price for it. And unfortunately, it's not going to get better. Continuity is everything in this ZB scheme.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Do we know if they tried to sign Sitton? Before they signed Cooper? What did Sitton sign for at Miami and for how long?They threw $5M away on Cooper--so it seems likely they were willing to make a competative offer to Sitton. Oh well--20/20 hindsight.

I'm not ready to give up on Person and Garnett--they have a new example of team sacrifice and leadership to live up to. And he's just a rookie.

Cooper counts $2.475,000 against the cap (dead money). Vance McDonald counts $4,000,000. I see no reason to worry about this money as they have plenty of cap space and if Cooper mends through the year they may be able to bring him back.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
No. That is a mistake.

Originally posted by English:
We just do not spend enough resource on the O line. And, Davis/Iupati excepting, we never seem to. Very nice to pick up other team's cast offs but it often doesnt work.The 2 lines are fundamental and I have no idea why we never treat the O as we should.

man, i couldn't have put it better. You just can't chintz on the OL...esp when you have your FR QB.

Man where were you guys at a few months ago when many of us were beating the drum for big changes against a wave of,,,,, the o line is not as bad as you think. we have three first round guard guys. jimmy will make them look better. you are negative.. at least you guys have caught up

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
But you can't just throw money at the problem either--or high draft picks. Look at the o-line under Singletary the year Iupati and Davis were drafted--Singletary's last year in part because the o-line , with two new starters, had no chemistry.

Bottom line: its not easy to rebuild a team or to build a cohesive and effective o-line. If it was easy, Tomsula and Baalke would still be here.

One thing I will agree on is that the 49ers should have signed Josh Sitton. He was out there in FA, had experience in a zone scheme, is a high quality guard and looked good blocking for Frank Gore yesterday in Miami. Adding him to this OL would have removed any major question marks, they would have been solid all the way from left to right.

That was my biggest disappointment of the offseason. I think they bought into Cooper, an injury prone guard, far too much. When you are paying a QB like Garoppolo that much money, the worst thing you can do is be like Seattle or Indy and get cheap when it comes to quality pass blocking.

Totally agree.

I was very disappointed we didn't get him.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

No. That is a mistake.

Originally posted by English:

We just do not spend enough resource on the O line. And, Davis/Iupati excepting, we never seem to. Very nice to pick up other team's cast offs but it often doesnt work.The 2 lines are fundamental and I have no idea why we never treat the O as we should.

man, i couldn't have put it better. You just can't chintz on the OL...esp when you have your FR QB.

Man where were you guys at a few months ago when many of us were beating the drum for big changes against a wave of,,,,, the o line is not as bad as you think. we have three first round guard guys. jimmy will make them look better. you are negative.. at least you guys have caught up

I have been complaining about it since the middle of the Harbaugh era when all you guys were carrying Baalke's water!
They did more to improve the line the last two years than the previous 5 IMO. Maybe they could and should have done more but at least they are trying to improve it which is a change in philosophy.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
No. That is a mistake.

Originally posted by English:
We just do not spend enough resource on the O line. And, Davis/Iupati excepting, we never seem to. Very nice to pick up other team's cast offs but it often doesnt work.The 2 lines are fundamental and I have no idea why we never treat the O as we should.

man, i couldn't have put it better. You just can't chintz on the OL...esp when you have your FR QB.

Man where were you guys at a few months ago when many of us were beating the drum for big changes against a wave of,,,,, the o line is not as bad as you think. we have three first round guard guys. jimmy will make them look better. you are negative.. at least you guys have caught up

I have been complaining about it since the middle of the Harbaugh era when all you guys were carrying Baalke's water!
They did more to improve the line the last two years than the previous 5 IMO. Maybe they could and should have done more but at least they are trying to improve it which is a change in philosophy.

Two OLmen go down against the most well rounded front 4 in the league and suddenly OL is a problem that the front office didn't address because a 9th overall and a fat contract signing (Richburg) is not enough.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
I have been complaining about it since the middle of the Harbaugh era when all you guys were carrying Baalke's water!
They did more to improve the line the last two years than the previous 5 IMO. Maybe they could and should have done more but at least they are trying to improve it which is a change in philosophy.

i always said in the jh days. we run block well but even then, could not pass protect for s**t.. philosophy is nice. but man. you got to have good players. i am not sure we have that with our guards, as many said. we should have signed the sitton guy. you have a guy like jimmy and you get non established players and hope they do well.. that is just not good man

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

I have been complaining about it since the middle of the Harbaugh era when all you guys were carrying Baalke's water!
They did more to improve the line the last two years than the previous 5 IMO. Maybe they could and should have done more but at least they are trying to improve it which is a change in philosophy.

i always said in the jh days. we run block well but even then, could not pass protect for s**t.. philosophy is nice. but man. you got to have good players. i am not sure we have that with our guards, as many said. we should have signed the sitton guy. you have a guy like jimmy and you get non established players and hope they do well.. that is just not good man

Baalke, Paraag's analytics...Anyone involved with drafting, FA and roster moves from 2011-2016 is to blame.

It was a massive mess but I feel like it is getting better.

Originally posted by NCommand:
The issue is what's grounded in philosophy. The 'idea' that they can get by with average G's in this day and age, is counter to all the great interior DL we play. Guys like Person, Garnett, Tomlinson and Cooper are average on a good day; and average players at this level are probably average b/c they can't stay healthy or gain momentum enough to grow/develop. And these were players the coaching staff new were average at best and they acquired them; they just had a season with Fusco and had a nice baseline. They banked on a premier C and two good to great tackles (potentially) to make up for average G play. And now that philosophy failed already...in week 1 and Garoppolo paid the price for it. And unfortunately, it's not going to get better. Continuity is everything in this ZB scheme.

NC...why do you assume they settled for the OGs they have? Perhaps they had hoped to pick up FAs but missed. Not sure how many good FA OGs there were last year. Of the top 30 FA OG/OCs we signed three--Richburg, Cooper and Person. Others we did not sign--Jordan Devey, Boone, Fusco, Looney...none of these guys would have helped. Were there some who might have? Who knows?

Top 10 C/G 3018 Free Agents From Rotoworld: Old list from April
Andrew Norwell (26) -- Signed 5-year, $66.5M deal with JAX
Weston Richburg (26) -- Signed 5-year, $47.5M deal with SF
Mike Pouncey (28) -- Signed 2-year, $15M deal with LAC
Josh Sitton (31) -- Signed 2-year, $18M deal with MIA
Josh Kline (28) -- Re-signed 4-year, $26M deal with TEN
Jack Mewhort (26) -- Re-signed 1-year, $1.5M deal with IND
Ryan Jensen (26) -- Signed 4-year, $42M deal with TB
James Hurst (26) -- Re-signed 4-year, $17.5M deal with BAL
Brandon Fusco (29) -- Signed 3-year, $12.75M deal with ATL
John Sullivan (32) -- Re-signed 2-year, $15M deal with LAR

We signed the second best, Richburg, and lost Fusco. We signed Cooper, and still have him on the list.

Next group after top FAs:
Matt Slauson (32) -- Signed 1-year, $3M deal with IND
Spencer Long (27) -- Signed 4-year, $27.4M deal with NYJ
D.J. Fluker (27) -- Signed 1-year deal with SEA
Senio Kelemete (27) -- Signed 3-year, $12M deal with HOU
Luke Joeckel (26)
Travis Swanson (27) -- Signed 1-year deal with NYJ
Zach Fulton (26) -- Signed 4-year, $28M deal with HOU
Alex Boone (30)
Joe Berger (35) -- Announced retirement on 3/23
Jahri Evans (34)
Patrick Omameh (28) -- Signed 3-year, $15M deal with NYG
Jonathan Cooper (28) -- Signed 1-year, $4.95M deal with SF
Russell Bodine (25) -- Signed 2-year, $5M deal with BUF
Daniel Kilgore (30) -- Re-signed 3-year, $12M deal with SF (traded to MIA)
Shawn Lauvao (30)
Tom Compton (28) -- Signed 1-year, $900K deal with MIN
Kenny Wiggins (29) -- Signed 2-year, $5M deal with DET
Wesley Johnson (27) -- Signed 1-year deal with DET
Jeremiah Sirles (26) -- Signed 1-year deal with CAR
Oday Aboushi (26)
Mike Person (29)
Amini Silatolu (29) -- Re-signed 1-year deal with CAR
Xavier Su'a-Filo (27) -- Signed 1-year, $880K deal with TEN
Kevin Pamphile (27) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEN
John Greco (33) -- Re-signed 1-year, $1M deal with NYG
Dakota Dozier (26) -- Re-signed 1-year deal with NYJ
Brian Schwenke (27)
Joe Hawley (29) -- Announced retirement on 4/4
Joe Looney (27) -- Re-signed 2-year deal with DAL

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Baalke, Paraag's analytics...Anyone involved with drafting, FA and roster moves from 2011-2016 is to blame.

It was a massive mess but I feel like it is getting better.

fair . but they had lots of money to spend on trash like ward and smith and could have done more with the o line. i am thinking coach should have a presser soon to talk about the guards and o line status as a whole?