Oakland Raiders coaches Film analysis

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Kap started out looking to the concept side and then moved to VD - he didn't pull the trigger for whatever reason

In this case, I think you give the raiders a little credit as the spot concept was covered nicely. It looks like he had a window to the backside in though.

Agreed...there was no chance on this one...even VD didn't even have his head around or in his break before CK is already being wrapped up and then sacked. Just a tip of the hat to the defense. There was no chance on this one IMHO.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by pete98146:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the OL other than injuries and general malaise that extends throughout the entire offense.

The OL works as a unit and when you're constantly moving pieces around, moving guys around, it can greatly affect cohesion and the performance of the unit as a whole. I think guard is the main area where there needs to be improvement, particularly in pass blocking. Kilgore was doing a very good job at center until he got injured, Martin is still a rookie and he'll learn but when you have that many injuries hit you, its not enough to say "next man up." You need continuity on the OL.

I remember back to the days when we brought in Ray Brown from the Redskins (I believe). Even tho his was a bit older, he really solidified the line. It wouldn't be a bad idea to bring in one veteran guard in the offseason. But I agree with your comments in general especially about the malaise part. Jeez, how much distractions can a deal with? We've had our share of them this year.

I think the distractions are playing a bigger part this year than most players want to acknowledge. Bowman insinuated it in his interview - that despite all of that, players still have the responsibility to come in and do their job to 100%. The things that we're seeing on the field seem more mental than anything. To me, that points to guys who aren't fully focused during the weak in the meeting rooms and practice. Coaches can do all they can, but if players aren't all bought into the organization and are mentally sharp and have that hunger - it's not going to happen.

Part of what frustrates me with our O-line is that the majority of them are veterans. Last year, they'd be the guys other teams would look at to bring in to solidify they're lines. This year...not so much. Maybe it's the 4 years of trying to be on the razor's edge of drive and sharpness that's hard to sustain has finally crumbled this year - I don't know.

Agreed!

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Jd925:
Another one read by design.

dude just shut up......

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Jd925:
Another one read by design.

dude just shut up......

This. Bring some facts or stfu. He "probably" did this. Every play is a ONE READ BY DESIGN but i have no evidence. Make your own thread with visuals and stop trolling this one. You are adding NOTHING of substance.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners816:
Could this be a case of kap ignoring the conceptside again. He did that more than you would like last year. This is just a wtf kap type of play. The question is What was so enticing on the backside to come off of the conceptside.

Often times it's the 1-1 coverage that he likes. I've said it a bunch, but, one of Kap's biggest strengths will also be his weakness. He trusts his receivers to make plays in 1-1. He said it after the NFCCG, "I saw Crabs in 1-1 and I'm gonna take that every time". For him, it's not a calculated risk, he see's it as a win and wants to take that play. The problem is, we're not winning those matchups/throws at a high enough rate to do anything to the opposing defense. Right now it's more random in it's effectiveness than methodical. With our struggles, we need method, not explosion. This is one reason why our offense can't get in a rhythm. That, and our O-line struggles( I want to underscore that it's ONE reason of several - not the entire source of blame).

This is a great point. I see this as well. I wonder if CK is being coached this way or if it's a preference. Like the first INT, thl408 showed the spot play (concept side) which then means, you have 1on1 on the non-concept side and you'd think, this should be a win for us every time if that concept side is covered up or if CK hesitates, there's pressure, etc.

I question if he's being coached this way b/c it seems like he does do it a lot. This is also how he's scored quite a few TD's this year as well.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Often times it's the 1-1 coverage that he likes. I've said it a bunch, but, one of Kap's biggest strengths will also be his weakness. He trusts his receivers to make plays in 1-1. He said it after the NFCCG, "I saw Crabs in 1-1 and I'm gonna take that every time". For him, it's not a calculated risk, he see's it as a win and wants to take that play. The problem is, we're not winning those matchups/throws at a high enough rate to do anything to the opposing defense. Right now it's more random in it's effectiveness than methodical. With our struggles, we need method, not explosion. This is one reason why our offense can't get in a rhythm. That, and our O-line struggles( I want to underscore that it's ONE reason of several - not the entire source of blame).

Totally agree with this. Somebody needs to tell kap that's not megatron or dez or '95 Jerry out there. We don't win this 1v1 enough to ignore concepts that work.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Often times it's the 1-1 coverage that he likes. I've said it a bunch, but, one of Kap's biggest strengths will also be his weakness. He trusts his receivers to make plays in 1-1. He said it after the NFCCG, "I saw Crabs in 1-1 and I'm gonna take that every time". For him, it's not a calculated risk, he see's it as a win and wants to take that play. The problem is, we're not winning those matchups/throws at a high enough rate to do anything to the opposing defense. Right now it's more random in it's effectiveness than methodical. With our struggles, we need method, not explosion. This is one reason why our offense can't get in a rhythm. That, and our O-line struggles( I want to underscore that it's ONE reason of several - not the entire source of blame).

Totally agree with this. Somebody needs to tell kap that's not megatron or dez or '95 Jerry out there. We don't win this 1v1 enough to ignore concepts that work.

...and then there's this.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Jd925:
Another one-read by design.. (this is the same as jonnydel)

The only possibility is that Miller was a read because Kap's head is turned that way.. but I still doubt it was the very first post-snap read in this thread. Boldin is the primary read.. he's double covered.. Kap is stuck with a blitz man coming.. That's all I see.

BTW if this was a spot concept how can you thl408 and jonnydel say he should have gone to a 4th read on a blitz? If he was going through a spot concept it would have been Boldin, Miller, and Celek on a half-field read.... not Davis on the other side...

I'll let you go ahead and do all the research into football to find that out. In the end - self discovery is better than us explaining it......

jd925. I recommend you take the time to research some of this stuff on your own. The concepts we point out have stood the test of time. There are progressions built into the route combinations. Just because Kap goes with his initial read does not mean that was the only available option to target on the play. If you watch the all22, you will see a lot of poor body language and sulking from some of the 49er WRs after the play is dead and the pass falls incomplete. They feel they should have gotten the target. They are live options on the play that Kap did not look to. In addition, I can point out the plays where it is a designed one read throw so I understand what you mean.

To the bolded, the progression is Spot concept, then backside In route. If you look at the timing in which each route breaks, it makes perfect sense. I'm not going to get too involved in this as I have spent many keystrokes explaining this last season that the 49ers do not run a majority one read passing attack. If you truly understand passing concepts and route combinations, you can see this. To get you started, there is the 'Film Analysis' thread that is pinned to the top of Niner Talk. Take a look at page 2 of that thread where a small handful of concepts are broken down.

I know you may continue to quote my posts and say "one read by design", just understand that each time you do, I laugh a little.

I laugh a little very time I look at the non-progressions in these plays. I used to just to just watch TV... but then I started to see this thread for analysis and I thought wow..neat.. we can see the routes and all ...then I started to actually look into the analysis instead of just having a cursory look at these nice colored highlights and diagrams...and time and time again I see Kap going through very few progressions if any at all. Yet I read all this analysis and speculation about what was supposed to happen...

Let's agree to disagree on what you're seeing and what I'm seeing....

Originally posted by jonnydel:

You are still going to tell me pre-snap reads is what you are talking about when you mention 'scanning the field'?

Originally posted by Jd925:
I laugh a little very time I look at the non-progressions in these plays. I used to just to just watch TV... but then I started to see this thread for analysis and I thought wow..neat.. we can see the routes and all ...then I started to actually look into the analysis instead of just having a cursory look at these nice colored highlights and diagrams...and time and time again I see Kap going through very few progressions if any at all. Yet I read all this analysis and speculation about what was supposed to happen...

Let's agree to disagree on what you're seeing and what I'm seeing....


You are still going to tell me pre-snap reads is what you are talking about when you mention 'scanning the field'?

hahaha, really.....normally, I'd take the time to explain what I'm talking about, just in case I didn't communicate it well, but with the way you've been trolling....It wouldn't matter what I said or how I said it, you'd think I was wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. So, I'm not going to entertain any of that or the back and forth it would create.

Originally posted by Jd925:

I laugh a little very time I look at the non-progressions in these plays. I used to just to just watch TV... but then I started to see this thread for analysis and I thought wow..neat.. we can see the routes and all ...then I started to actually look into the analysis instead of just having a cursory look at these nice colored highlights and diagrams...and time and time again I see Kap going through very few progressions if any at all. Yet I read all this analysis and speculation about what was supposed to happen...

Let's agree to disagree on what you're seeing and what I'm seeing....


You are still going to tell me pre-snap reads is what you are talking about when you mention 'scanning the field'?

And that right there is on kap. He chooses to take the primary read a high percentage of the time. THL and johnny didn't make these concepts up. When you run these routes in the way they are ran it creates natural progressions that have been carving up defenses for over 3 decades. Plain and simple you are not gonna take the time to install a concept and then simply use it as a decoy. All the concepts called out in this thread and every other thread, are ran by every other team in the NFL---these concepts are pro football.

oops, I posted in the wrong thread/

Originally posted by sacniner:
This. Bring some facts or stfu. He "probably" did this. Every play is a ONE READ BY DESIGN but i have no evidence. Make your own thread with visuals and stop trolling this one. You are adding NOTHING of substance.

You know what? I've actually learned some new concepts which was cool... but all I read is a bunch of speculative analysis of what is supposed to happen and I see few if any real progression analysis...

So everyone reading and posting on this thread think they understand what's going on? Just because there are some neon arrows and circles and some fancy words? I ain't buying any of that... I'm actually making my own analysis and not taking someone else's words.

I don't really get much from the analysis. I don't even get much from seeing the plays anymore because it's all the same non-progression scheme. I was actually hoping to see a few plays where Kap attempts to make several progressions, but I'm still waiting...

So the conclusion is this is actually a huge waste of my time.... so have fun everybody who checks these threads... I'm out.

Originally posted by Jd925:

Originally posted by sacniner:
This. Bring some facts or stfu. He "probably" did this. Every play is a ONE READ BY DESIGN but i have no evidence. Make your own thread with visuals and stop trolling this one. You are adding NOTHING of substance.

You know what? I've actually learned some new concepts which was cool... but all I read is a bunch of speculative analysis of what is supposed to happen and I see few if any real progression analysis...

So everyone reading and posting on this thread think they understand what's going on? Just because there are some neon arrows and circles and some fancy words? I ain't buying any of that... I'm actually making my own analysis and not taking someone else's words.

I don't really get much from the analysis. I don't even get much from seeing the plays anymore because it's all the same non-progression scheme. I was actually hoping to see a few plays where Kap attempts to make several progressions, but I'm still waiting...

So the conclusion is this is actually a huge waste of my time.... so have fun everybody who checks these threads... I'm out.

Originally posted by Jd925:

You know what? I've actually learned some new concepts which was cool... but all I read is a bunch of speculative analysis of what is supposed to happen and I see few if any real progression analysis...

So everyone reading and posting on this thread think they understand what's going on? Just because there are some neon arrows and circles and some fancy words? I ain't buying any of that... I'm actually making my own analysis and not taking someone else's words.

I don't really get much from the analysis. I don't even get much from seeing the plays anymore because it's all the same non-progression scheme. I was actually hoping to see a few plays where Kap attempts to make several progressions, but I'm still waiting...

So the conclusion is this is actually a huge waste of my time.... so have fun everybody who checks these threads... I'm out.

If you actually learned some new "concepts" on this thread, then you did not possess the foundation in actual X's and O's to call any poster out or determine that every single pass play ran by the niners is a one read play. These concepts are not new and are ran across all levels of football. Thl and Johnny do a great job of illustrating what is happening out there, if you choose to ignore it that's your loss.

Originally posted by Jd925:
You know what? I've actually learned some new concepts which was cool... but all I read is a bunch of speculative analysis of what is supposed to happen and I see few if any real progression analysis...

So everyone reading and posting on this thread think they understand what's going on? Just because there are some neon arrows and circles and some fancy words? I ain't buying any of that... I'm actually making my own analysis and not taking someone else's words.

I don't really get much from the analysis. I don't even get much from seeing the plays anymore because it's all the same non-progression scheme. I was actually hoping to see a few plays where Kap attempts to make several progressions, but I'm still waiting...

So the conclusion is this is actually a huge waste of my time.... so have fun everybody who checks these threads... I'm out.

Take it for what it is. You don't have to take it for gospel. But, if you are so sure of every play being a one read design and want to argue points, you should bring some facts or your own visuals. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing, or arguing because they aren't telling you what you want to hear. To a certain degree, everything is speculative because we aren't part of the coaching staff. Although, these guys have access to all22 and do a good job providing visuals and reasoning to backup their conclusions.

You started to troll because you didn't provide a real discourse. No evidence or facts. If you don't like the "fancy" (ms paint isn't that fancy) neon arrows, words and their analysis don't come in the thread and/or don't comment.