SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS VS. SAN DIEGO CHARGERS GAMEDAY THREAD (Week 16)

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Phil:

In 2011 and 2012 Gore was ran into a stacked box more than 90% of the backs in the NFL.

You got an official stat for that?

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfcwest&id=50349&src=desktop

That only accounts for half of the 2011 season, but fair enough. Our offense became more balanced after that, particularly in 2012.

I really don't have a problem with running into a stacked box if it works and we win. I thought we caught SD off guard running power like that to start the game. We hadn't been that committed to it all season. 2nd half they adjusted, loaded the box, and used run blitzes that also worked to blow up potential play-action fakes. We didn't have a counter for it.

Na, it went on into 2012. I've had the discussion in 2013 on "prosportsdaily". Not just pulling it out of my ass.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
So many here are asking why Kap hasn't progressed. He's still the same QB that helped take us to the SB. The only difference is that defenses have found his weakness and taken away his strength. The Redskins, Seahawks, Rams and every team we've played play the exact same defense, stuff the box and make him a pocket passer. Every game is like a carbon copy with Kap trying to avoid the rush and being sacked.

He is a thrower not a passer. Watch how Rivers led his receivers and threw the ball before the break. These skills can't be taught, and I have to agree with one of the comments made on the Zone that Kap is similar Vince Young.

I disagree. We've seen him make those very same plays before, go through his progressions....etc. He's shown that he can do it, the difference is that the OL has been beat up, they have not been controlling the line of scrimmage like in previous years and this offense is entirely too predictable. There isn't a great variety of routes, they try to insert unpredictability into the offense with motioning and shifting but teams have learned to ignore that. This offense doesn't attack all areas of the field the way other offenses do, teams simply cluster up their defenders and bring pressure to stop the run as well as to attack the quarterback.


Kaepernick will have another chance to show he can get it done, with another coaching staff and hopefully a better, more modern and less predictable offensive scheme.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

So many here are asking why Kap hasn't progressed. He's still the same QB that helped take us to the SB. The only difference is that defenses have found his weakness and taken away his strength. The Redskins, Seahawks, Rams and every team we've played play the exact same defense, stuff the box and make him a pocket passer. Every game is like a carbon copy with Kap trying to avoid the rush and being sacked.

He is a thrower not a passer. Watch how Rivers led his receivers and threw the ball before the break. These skills can't be taught, and I have to agree with one of the comments made on the Zone that Kap is similar Vince Young.

I agree. See post 3163.

And it even rhymes. It's got rhythm...unlike...

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
So many here are asking why Kap hasn't progressed. He's still the same QB that helped take us to the SB. The only difference is that defenses have found his weakness and taken away his strength. The Redskins, Seahawks, Rams and every team we've played play the exact same defense, stuff the box and make him a pocket passer. Every game is like a carbon copy with Kap trying to avoid the rush and being sacked.

He is a thrower not a passer. Watch how Rivers led his receivers and threw the ball before the break. These skills can't be taught, and I have to agree with one of the comments made on the Zone that Kap is similar Vince Young.

I can't fully buy into that when I look at the difference between our 1st half scoring and 2nd half scoring. I'll post it again:

1st quarter -- 5.7 (t-5th)
2nd quarter --7.7 (9th)
3rd quarter -- 3.3 (26th)
4th quarter -- 2.2 (32nd)

We go from a top 10 scoring offense in the 1st half, to league worst in the 2nd half.

So am I supposed to believe that each and every week teams forget how to defend Kap in the 1st half, and then they magically re-discover his weaknesses and shutdown the offense in the 2nd? I find that hard to believe. Kap is on film, they know exactly who he is before the game starts.

What's more likely is this coaching staff does a decent job during the week coming up with the gameplan to start the game, but have woefully been outcoached during games, and fail to make adjustments to stay a step ahead of the opponent. There is no other explanation for this disparity between 1st half and 2nd half scoring.

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Phil:
In 2011 and 2012 Gore was ran into a stacked box more than 90% of the backs in the NFL.

You got an official stat for that?

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfcwest&id=50349&src=desktop

That only accounts for half of the 2011 season, but fair enough. Our offense became more balanced after that, particularly in 2012.

I really don't have a problem with running into a stacked box if it works and we win. I thought we caught SD off guard running power like that to start the game. We hadn't been that committed to it all season. 2nd half they adjusted, loaded the box, and used run blitzes that also worked to blow up potential play-action fakes. We didn't have a counter for it.

Na, it went on into 2012. I've had the discussion in 2013 on "prosportsdaily". Not just pulling it out of my ass.

Okay, I'll take your word for it.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

So many here are asking why Kap hasn't progressed. He's still the same QB that helped take us to the SB. The only difference is that defenses have found his weakness and taken away his strength. The Redskins, Seahawks, Rams and every team we've played play the exact same defense, stuff the box and make him a pocket passer. Every game is like a carbon copy with Kap trying to avoid the rush and being sacked.

He is a thrower not a passer. Watch how Rivers led his receivers and threw the ball before the break. These skills can't be taught, and I have to agree with one of the comments made on the Zone that Kap is similar Vince Young.

I disagree. We've seen him make those very same plays before, go through his progressions....etc. He's shown that he can do it, the difference is that the OL has been beat up, they have not been controlling the line of scrimmage like in previous years and this offense is entirely too predictable. There isn't a great variety of routes, they try to insert unpredictability into the offense with motioning and shifting but teams have learned to ignore that. This offense doesn't attack all areas of the field the way other offenses do, teams simply cluster up their defenders and bring pressure to stop the run as well as to attack the quarterback.


Kaepernick will have another chance to show he can get it done, with another coaching staff and hopefully a better, more modern and less predictable offensive scheme.

Has has in fact gone through progressions. But it's like pulling teeth. And the entire point of the simplified offense was because Kap had that meltdown in 2013. The one people are keen on denying. Remember when we went into emergency game manager mode in the first half of the season. When it was blamed on the fact we only had 2 pro bowl recievers in Davis/Boldin?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Its hard for me to put all the blame on Kaepernick when he keeps getting f**ked over by this offensive system. Chargers loaded up the box, they kept running Gore into it.....and boom, now you're at 2nd and long and then 3rd and long and you put the QB in a terrible position. Combined with the potato playcalling(predictable QB sweep on 3rd down that wasn't going anywhere), some bad turnovers and its not a shock that they lost.

I am a reasonable man, OK I won't say it was 100% on Kap, but really without putting a number on it, you got to say he had to take the majority of the blame and I will explain why.

We started this game great. Why ? Cos FINALLY we were running the ball and we ran the ball well with Frank which opened up some great play-action passing opportunities for Kap. It already took a lot of weight off Kap's shoulders and we were almost moving the chains at will. But, when the Chargers D adjusted to stack the box, Kap was supposed to pull his weight to throw the running game open again. Sure, our D couldn't make a stop, but don't forget they had already scored a pick 6 for you plus they have carried Kap all season long, have they not ? So, when the D and Frank were struggling, as the franchise QB you just have to step up to make things happen cos what other alternatives were there ?

I know I am probably stating the obvious here, but I will say it anyway, we, the San Francisco 49ers are only as good as what our franchise QB can do. If he can't make plays when a franchise QB is supposed to, then our offense and the team as a whole will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

Bottom line, we need to draft a legit QB high. Even if Kap were to start next season, we must have a Plan B in place should he continue to tank.

Stop the presses, I know why we lost to the Bolts.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

So many here are asking why Kap hasn't progressed. He's still the same QB that helped take us to the SB. The only difference is that defenses have found his weakness and taken away his strength. The Redskins, Seahawks, Rams and every team we've played play the exact same defense, stuff the box and make him a pocket passer. Every game is like a carbon copy with Kap trying to avoid the rush and being sacked.

He is a thrower not a passer. Watch how Rivers led his receivers and threw the ball before the break. These skills can't be taught, and I have to agree with one of the comments made on the Zone that Kap is similar Vince Young.

I can't fully buy into that when I look at the difference between our 1st half scoring and 2nd half scoring. I'll post it again:

1st quarter -- 5.7 (t-5th)
2nd quarter --7.7 (9th)
3rd quarter -- 3.3 (26th)
4th quarter -- 2.2 (32nd)

We go from a top 10 scoring offense in the 1st half, to league worst in the 2nd half.

So am I supposed to believe that each and every week teams forget how to defend Kap in the 1st half, and then they magically re-discover his weaknesses and shutdown the offense in the 2nd? I find that hard to believe. Kap is on film, they know exactly who he is before the game starts.

What's more likely is this coaching staff does a decent job during the week coming up with the gameplan to start the game, but have woefully been outcoached during games, and fail to make adjustments to stay a step ahead of the opponent. There is no other explanation for this disparity between 1st half and 2nd half scoring.

In the losses early in the season and early in 2013 people were LIVID because we went away from Gore in the second half. Because the run was working and we abandon it.

Now we stuck with it and that's the problem. And in 2011-2012 Gore was run into a stacked box more than most of the RB's in the NFL.

I think tonight's game is a bad example of s**tty play calling. Nothing like last season against the Colts when the run was working and we went away from it. I probably would have spat at Romans feet if I saw him after that game.

Tonight's loss was more so on penalties, turnovers and a decimated defense. Some mistakes by Kap, O line, recievers and defense.

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
So many here are asking why Kap hasn't progressed. He's still the same QB that helped take us to the SB. The only difference is that defenses have found his weakness and taken away his strength. The Redskins, Seahawks, Rams and every team we've played play the exact same defense, stuff the box and make him a pocket passer. Every game is like a carbon copy with Kap trying to avoid the rush and being sacked.

He is a thrower not a passer. Watch how Rivers led his receivers and threw the ball before the break. These skills can't be taught, and I have to agree with one of the comments made on the Zone that Kap is similar Vince Young.

I can't fully buy into that when I look at the difference between our 1st half scoring and 2nd half scoring. I'll post it again:

1st quarter -- 5.7 (t-5th)
2nd quarter --7.7 (9th)
3rd quarter -- 3.3 (26th)
4th quarter -- 2.2 (32nd)

We go from a top 10 scoring offense in the 1st half, to league worst in the 2nd half.

So am I supposed to believe that each and every week teams forget how to defend Kap in the 1st half, and then they magically re-discover his weaknesses and shutdown the offense in the 2nd? I find that hard to believe. Kap is on film, they know exactly who he is before the game starts.

What's more likely is this coaching staff does a decent job during the week coming up with the gameplan to start the game, but have woefully been outcoached during games, and fail to make adjustments to stay a step ahead of the opponent. There is no other explanation for this disparity between 1st half and 2nd half scoring.

In the losses early in the season and early in 2013 people were LIVID because we went away from Gore in the second half. Because the run was working and we abandon it.

Now we stuck with it and that's the problem. And in 2011-2012 Gore was run into a stacked box more than most of the RB's in the NFL.

I think tonight's game is a bad example of s**tty play calling. Nothing like last season against the Colts when the run was working and we went away from it. I probably would have spat at Romans feet if I saw him after that game.

Tonight's loss was more so on penalties, turnovers and a decimated defense. Some mistakes by Kap, O line, recievers and defense.

What scares me is that we're getting into the area of creative losses.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Its hard for me to put all the blame on Kaepernick when he keeps getting f**ked over by this offensive system. Chargers loaded up the box, they kept running Gore into it.....and boom, now you're at 2nd and long and then 3rd and long and you put the QB in a terrible position. Combined with the potato playcalling(predictable QB sweep on 3rd down that wasn't going anywhere), some bad turnovers and its not a shock that they lost.

I am a reasonable man, OK I won't say it was 100% on Kap, but really without putting a number on it, you got to say he had to take the majority of the blame and I will explain why.

We started this game great. Why ? Cos FINALLY we were running the ball and we ran the ball well with Frank which opened up some great play-action passing opportunities for Kap. It already took a lot of weight off Kap's shoulders and we were almost moving the chains at will. But, when the Chargers D adjusted to stack the box, Kap was supposed to pull his weight to throw the running game open again. Sure, our D couldn't make a stop, but don't forget they had already scored a pick 6 for you plus they have carried Kap all season long, have they not ? So, when the D and Frank were struggling, as the franchise QB you just have to step up to make things happen cos what other alternatives were there ?

I know I am probably stating the obvious here, but I will say it anyway, we, the San Francisco 49ers are only as good as what our franchise QB can do. If he can't make plays when a franchise QB is supposed to, then our offense and the team as a whole will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

Bottom line, we need to draft a legit QB high. Even if Kap were to start next season, we must have a Plan B in place should he continue to tank.

But they ran him on third down so its Harbaughs fault. LOL. I still wouldn't put this game totally on Kap. There was a couple BAD penalties, the D did give in and ya, Kap screwed up on a few key plays that really hurt.

I don't see why it matters. The actual games that mattered were the Bears, Rams, Hawks and Raiders losses. Those are the games that ejected us from the playoffs. Kap had 11 turnovers and 3 TD's with an average QBR of 60 in those 4 losses. OUCH!!

Kap could have come out to ought and thrown for 500 yards and 5 passing TD's and there would still be a question of consistency. He can run though. Great runner. But at what cost?

Originally posted by Phil:
In the losses early in the season and early in 2013 people were LIVID because we went away from Gore in the second half. Because the run was working and we abandon it.

Now we stuck with it and that's the problem. And in 2011-2012 Gore was run into a stacked box more than most of the RB's in the NFL.

I think tonight's game is a bad example of s**tty play calling. Nothing like last season against the Colts when the run was working and we went away from it. I probably would have spat at Romans feet if I saw him after that game.

Tonight's loss was more so on penalties, turnovers and a decimated defense. Some mistakes by Kap, O line, recievers and defense.

Pretty much a colossal meltdown in the 2nd half.

Each game is it's own story. You have to be able to adapt to the circumstances of that particular game. I don't think there is any one approach you go to every time.

It's just been a consistent failure this year in the 2nd half of ball games, regardless of the approach. We throw the ball, it doesn't work. We run the ball, it doesn't work. We try to be balanced, it doesn't work.

I understand the hurdles we face with all the injuries, uncertainty regarding the coaching staff, and a struggling QB. But the disparity we've seen between 1st half and 2nd half scoring this year has really been one of the oddest things I've ever seen. How can a team be a top 10 scoring offense in the 1st half, and then become the worst in the league by a mile in the 2nd half? It's beyond belief.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

So many here are asking why Kap hasn't progressed. He's still the same QB that helped take us to the SB. The only difference is that defenses have found his weakness and taken away his strength. The Redskins, Seahawks, Rams and every team we've played play the exact same defense, stuff the box and make him a pocket passer. Every game is like a carbon copy with Kap trying to avoid the rush and being sacked.

He is a thrower not a passer. Watch how Rivers led his receivers and threw the ball before the break. These skills can't be taught, and I have to agree with one of the comments made on the Zone that Kap is similar Vince Young.

I can't fully buy into that when I look at the difference between our 1st half scoring and 2nd half scoring. I'll post it again:

1st quarter -- 5.7 (t-5th)
2nd quarter --7.7 (9th)
3rd quarter -- 3.3 (26th)
4th quarter -- 2.2 (32nd)

We go from a top 10 scoring offense in the 1st half, to league worst in the 2nd half.

So am I supposed to believe that each and every week teams forget how to defend Kap in the 1st half, and then they magically re-discover his weaknesses and shutdown the offense in the 2nd? I find that hard to believe. Kap is on film, they know exactly who he is before the game starts.

What's more likely is this coaching staff does a decent job during the week coming up with the gameplan to start the game, but have woefully been outcoached during games, and fail to make adjustments to stay a step ahead of the opponent. There is no other explanation for this disparity between 1st half and 2nd half scoring.

In the losses early in the season and early in 2013 people were LIVID because we went away from Gore in the second half. Because the run was working and we abandon it.

Now we stuck with it and that's the problem. And in 2011-2012 Gore was run into a stacked box more than most of the RB's in the NFL.

I think tonight's game is a bad example of s**tty play calling. Nothing like last season against the Colts when the run was working and we went away from it. I probably would have spat at Romans feet if I saw him after that game.

Tonight's loss was more so on penalties, turnovers and a decimated defense. Some mistakes by Kap, O line, recievers and defense.

What scares me is that we're getting into the area of creative losses.

Lol. It's almost over. Kinda. For this season.

Ill be happy if we draft a QB early and bring in a vet. Then the new coaches can please build the most complex offense possible and have a viable competition to see who can run it best.

If Kap wins out so be it, and that may be the case since finding good QB's is hard but you simply never know until you get some viable competition going on in camp- with a coach who's not subjectively looking to start a QB because if his contract status. And usually new coaches want QB's who can run their system. Kap was Harbaughs guy.

2016 will be a better year to draft but if Kap keeps struggling through 2015 I don't want to wait till 2016. We need a major contingency plan. And Gabbert ain't it.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Its hard for me to put all the blame on Kaepernick when he keeps getting f**ked over by this offensive system. Chargers loaded up the box, they kept running Gore into it.....and boom, now you're at 2nd and long and then 3rd and long and you put the QB in a terrible position. Combined with the potato playcalling(predictable QB sweep on 3rd down that wasn't going anywhere), some bad turnovers and its not a shock that they lost.

I am a reasonable man, OK I won't say it was 100% on Kap, but really without putting a number on it, you got to say he had to take the majority of the blame and I will explain why.

We started this game great. Why ? Cos FINALLY we were running the ball and we ran the ball well with Frank which opened up some great play-action passing opportunities for Kap. It already took a lot of weight off Kap's shoulders and we were almost moving the chains at will. But, when the Chargers D adjusted to stack the box, Kap was supposed to pull his weight to throw the running game open again. Sure, our D couldn't make a stop, but don't forget they had already scored a pick 6 for you plus they have carried Kap all season long, have they not ? So, when the D and Frank were struggling, as the franchise QB you just have to step up to make things happen cos what other alternatives were there ?

I know I am probably stating the obvious here, but I will say it anyway, we, the San Francisco 49ers are only as good as what our franchise QB can do. If he can't make plays when a franchise QB is supposed to, then our offense and the team as a whole will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

Bottom line, we need to draft a legit QB high. Even if Kap were to start next season, we must have a Plan B in place should he continue to tank.

Kap still needs to develope. That is obvious. I can't believe the way he fumbled. The ball was a foot and a half away from his body. There was no way not to fumble. He was being grabbed by multiple players and didn't secure the ball as he tried to get away. Big mistake.

That being said he didn't lose this game. Not even close. Our defense has been held together by chicken wire all season and for the most part did far better than we could have hoped but against the chargers it was too much. On top of everything else losing Borland and Raymac and then Reid and Cox during the game. Come on. I chalk this loss up to a snakebit year. We lost 4 players last week to injury, another during the week (RayMac) and a couple more in this game. Are you kidding me?

Then we have 2 TD passes called back on penalty. There were what , 4 fumbles in the game and they recovered all of them. We didn't have a legit shot at any of them. The ball just bounced their way every time. Everything considered Kap had a pretty good game. What would Rivers have looked like if his teammates fumbled away a couple of possessions and he had 2 td passes called back including a 60 plus yarder? He would have lost by double digits and never even made it to overtime. In spite of everything Kap had us moving towards the game winner in OT when we fumbled again. And that is after he drove us down in regulation to give Dawson a chance to win it with a 60 yard FG attempt. Something Dawson is capable of doing but he just didn't get all of it when he kicked it.

Kap has been dissapointing at times this season but this game wasn't one of them. He outplayed Rivers.

This just is not our season and if it weren't for bad luck we wouldn't have any luck at all this year.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Phil:

In the losses early in the season and early in 2013 people were LIVID because we went away from Gore in the second half. Because the run was working and we abandon it.

Now we stuck with it and that's the problem. And in 2011-2012 Gore was run into a stacked box more than most of the RB's in the NFL.

I think tonight's game is a bad example of s**tty play calling. Nothing like last season against the Colts when the run was working and we went away from it. I probably would have spat at Romans feet if I saw him after that game.

Tonight's loss was more so on penalties, turnovers and a decimated defense. Some mistakes by Kap, O line, recievers and defense.

Pretty much a colossal meltdown in the 2nd half.

Each game is it's own story. You have to be able to adapt to the circumstances of that particular game. I don't think there is any one approach you go to every time.

It's just been a consistent failure this year in the 2nd half of ball games, regardless of the approach. We throw the ball, it doesn't work. We run the ball, it doesn't work. We try to be balanced, it doesn't work.

I understand the hurdles we face with all the injuries, uncertainty regarding the coaching staff, and a struggling QB. But the disparity we've seen between 1st half and 2nd half scoring this year has really been one of the oddest things I've ever seen. How can a team be a top 10 scoring offense in the 1st half, and then become the worst in the league by a mile in the 2nd half? It's beyond belief.

What happened in the Bears, Rams, Hawks and Raiders losses? 11 turnovers by one guy.