2014 Team Needs - Updates

dtg, are any of these guys press CBs and truly potential #1 or #2s? I ask because my impression (imo)is they are all quality backups. Then again, so was Brock...right up until he got a chance to start. So if one of these 5 guys can play press coverage and truly could be a starter, then sure, ONE CB we move up for and then nail our WR. I guess this points to a JH flaw: inability to get guys sitting on the bench into games we are up by 30 pts, and not using guys on the bench who are WRs, CBs, Centers, OGs, Ss, and so on. Without seeing your guys in the games, how do you really know how they play? I have noted this before, but not many had an opinion on it. So, if you happen to know that we have another Brock on the bench, please let me know. One way to beat SEA is with 3 press CBs, but they better all be starters.

Paso--Cook is suppose to be good at press, but I really don't know. The way Donatell gets these guys to play I really think they must have an idea of what they have. One thing that may say a lot is what they do in the first round of the draft...will they trade up for a top CB? Or Pryor? But if they go WR in the first then I think the coaches are fairly happy with the depth at CB.

One thing I always try to remind myself (in my pre-draft frenzy) is they don't generally use rookies in key positions. So they may have their starters and key players already on the squad...that's what I'm trying to watch in the list of CBs. If Brock and Culliver can start, and Wright/Cox/Cook are all good backups then Morris and a draft pick this year can be groomed for a year. Not sure what to think of Swanson...

That makes sense, dtg, watching what we do with #1. And if we go WR, then you are correct, they are happy with their #3-6 and will settle for a CB with 2nd pick. One thing...cully. I sure hope you are right and he shows up come gametime. Of the three guys making headlines, he could be the surprise and end up missing some time...but I sure hope not. Hard to figure a draft when you don't know who will be available and who not. So we hope for the best. If they do go CB, they almost have to move up for the one trent wants, and you know he WILL want one guy in particular, probably the guy I wouldn't pick. That has been my luck with him at GM and I sure like what he picks. As far as do the 9ers already have their starters already on the squad? That is THE $64 question. We all have opinions, but only trent and jim H know. On this score, I have no idea, not having seen most of these guys(on the bench) play. But you don't extend someone like Kilgore, who has played infrequently if you don't really like him to start. And same goes for half a dozen or more others.

I hate the obsessive thing about a cb over 6th, gets old.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Paso--Cook is suppose to be good at press, but I really don't know. The way Donatell gets these guys to play I really think they must have an idea of what they have. One thing that may say a lot is what they do in the first round of the draft...will they trade up for a top CB? Or Pryor? But if they go WR in the first then I think the coaches are fairly happy with the depth at CB.

One thing I always try to remind myself (in my pre-draft frenzy) is they don't generally use rookies in key positions. So they may have their starters and key players already on the squad...that's what I'm trying to watch in the list of CBs. If Brock and Culliver can start, and Wright/Cox/Cook are all good backups then Morris and a draft pick this year can be groomed for a year. Not sure what to think of Swanson...

dtg_9er and Pas got me wanting to repost/update my previous post of what I call our Leap Year players. Who do you see on this list that will surprise everyone and become the next Brock, Boone, Williams, Whiloite, Skuta, Dorsey, etc.?

And just to reiterate, of the 43 AB already ID'd as locks to make the 53, we have monster competition already...even before the 6 picks in the top 100 and 11 picks overall. Now THIS is a deep roster. Before we even consider how many 2014 draftees will make the 53, 46, etc. take a look at all these players who are expected to make huge jumps this year and compete for starting positions (by positions). Here is our internal "farm system" or pipeline of players for this Leap Year:

DB's:
Cox, Perrish - Will Cox be this year's version of Brock? The guy absolutely balled out during the playoffs and s/h started over Rogers who cost us another shot at a Superbowl.
Cook, Chris - Will be competing for an outside CB position to back up Culliver/Brock/Wright and will also be a "press" CB which is a shift in philosophy for us. With S help and us playing to his strengths (press), he could be another one of those "camp fodder" players that ends up surprising.
Morris, Darryl - Will be competing with a slot CB in this year's draft for a starting role; already the best gunner on ST and don't be surprised, with his speed, that we try him out as a returner on ST.
Wright, Eric - Already the #3 and will have a full off season to hit the ground running and compete for the #2 with Culliver and Cook. He has the most NFL experience and is now familiar with the defensive playbook/coverages/calls. This off season could be his season to steal a #2 CB spot over a blue-chip rookie and Culliver while he gets back into NFL shape.
Swanson, Dax – 5'10" 186 4.44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mdwiZjEQtC4. One NT poster has eyes for this CB so I'll be keeping my eye on him as well.
Campbell, D.J. – 6'0" 201 4.54 Scouting Report from DeUh: "I would definitely add S DJ Campbell to that list. He was a 7th round pick by the Panthers in 2012. He started their last 4 games of the season at strong safety (4-game winning streak). The issues scouts had with him were his raw instincts, his ability to make pre-snap adjustments and his ability to play the ball in the air though none of those issues were visible in those 4 games, especially against the Falcons. What scouts liked about him was his speed and tackling ability. He was also a highly touted recruit coming out of high school (had an offer from LSU). He also plays ST. In 2013 he lost his starting job to Mike Mitchell. He was then put on I.R. due to a leg injury and later waived. Signed onto Dolphins practice squad on October 18, 2013 and then signed a one year contract with us on January 7, 2014. It may be a long shot to say that he makes the team but I will definitely keep an close eye on him during Training Camp/Pre Season. Measurables include: 40 Yrd Dash 4.54 (would have been 2nd among safeties); 10 Yrd Dash 1.63; Bench 22 (would have been tied for 1st among safeties); Vertical 38 (would have been 2nd among safeties); Broad 10´07" (would have been 2nd among safeties); 20 Yrd Shuttle 4.22; and 3-Cone Drill 7.08.
Spillman, C.J. - An excellent ST but also may fit the "FS" role well which is important in today's game (vs. the SS role); Although the SS and FS positions are interchangeable in our 3-4 as well. I've always had a good feeling about this guy on the field. He just rarely gets a shot.

DL:
Williams, Ian - Welcome back kid! Now you get to face a starting competition with Dorsey and split time with him at NT. Your injury will now force Seattle to play a different kind of blocking scheme. He should be even stronger since the injury was so long ago and he is a slasher who can get into the backfield and distrupt things.
Dial, Quinton - Already got some field-time last year, will know the defense and can continue to grow under Tomsula this year. Let's watch the growth of this one closely.
Okoye, Lawrence - Speaking of growth, who is going to be more fun to watch grow in this Leap Year? I expect him to make a big jump this off season!
Carradine, Tank - High expectations for this man and he's hungry as hell esp. after getting that scar tissue removed.
Jerod-Eddie, Tony - Played very well last year and may even push Dobbs off the roster
Dobbs, Demarcus - Tendered but may not even make the team with our depth! I believe this is his 3rd year but he seems to get better each year.

LB:
Fleming, Darius - May be looked at to make the move inside but came out of college as a pass rush specialist. And we haven't given up on him yet which says something, right?
Lemonier, Corey - Already a great start last year and will be expected to step up even more this year esp. with a possible suspension of Aldon Smith
Moody, Nick - The FO liked this kid a lot and with Bowman out, he'll be leaned on heavily to step up this off season. In fact, he trained with CK all off season so perhaps with more single-high FS looks, he will play a hybrid S/LB role on passing downs while Wilhoite plays running downs until Bowman gets back.
Skuta, Dan - What a find. He is already our #3 OLB and a very good ST and will only get better; can also play inside if needed which is even more important now.
Wilhoite, Michael - Played very well for Willis and now, we expect him to play great for Bowman esp. with a full off season to develop "knowing" he'll be the starter.

QB:
Gabbert, Blaine - While he was recently signed, he is still going to have big expectations put on him given his former first round status. Reports are he is an excellent practice player as well. He will be expected to become a viable backup this year (and trade-bait in the future?)

OL:
Martin, Jonathan - Game on Snyder! There is even talks of him learning the LG position as well which cross-training, we do alot of with our OL.
Kilgore, Daniel - (2nd year/1st-year starter). Already slated to be our starting C and compete with Looney this off season.
Looney, Joe - Played well at RG in spot-duty last year and is expected to make big strides. Iupati, look out! He even has an outside chance of starting at C over Kilgore.
Seymour, Ryan - Heard good things about this G at the end of last year so keep an eye on him.
Marquardt, Luke - Already heard great things about his progress late last year; prototypical H/W/S-guy.

RB:
Hampton, Jewel - Love this guy; could surprise everyone while Lattimore gets his playing-game/legs back; will get lots of carries this off season again
Hunter, Kendall - Underused, in so many ways, unfortunately. But with talks of an expanded offense, could this bode well for Hunter finally?
James, LaMichael - Similar story to Hunter here.
Lattimore, Marcus - We all have big hopes for Marcus as a player and as a person! Gore will push him hard, train him well but won't give up a starting position that easy!

TE's/H-Back/FB:
Carrier, Derek - Watch out Celek as he may take your roster spot! We could have our next H-back formally held by Delanie Walker. Heard good things about him late last year. He too will now have a full off season to hit the ground running.
Celek, Garrett - Is going to have a heck of a time making the team this year, no doubt.
McDonald, Vance - Coaches already said they plan to incorporate him now into the passing game now that he has the entire system down and has excelled in the blocking game (run and pass)!

WR's:
Baldwin, Jon - Is expected to make big strides like Wright with a full off season and some experience in our system. This is his last shot but will have huge competition thanks to the draft/depth. But don't count this former first round draft pick. He could end up surprising some fans esp. if we do look to expand the offense.
Patton, Quinton - Man, is this guy hungry or what? Currently the #3 and may be worked into the slot more. If not, he'll have to work hard against a blue-chip X/Z WR or a more dynamic Y/Slot WR.
Sampson, DeMarco - 6'2" 204 4.41. New addition. Anyone have a scouting report and how he'd fit in with us?
Reed, David - 6'0" 191 4.46. New addition. Anyone have a scouting report and how he'd fit in with us?

ST:
Schmidt, Colton - Andy had a poor year last year by his standards and Colton will push Andy this year again.
Wylie, Devon – 5'9" 187 4.30. Could Devon be that slot WR/Dynamic Returner we've been missing? http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/0ap2000000230928/Wylie-big-punt-return
Ventrone, Raymond, Dahl, Craig, Osgood, Kassim & Morris, Darryl - That coverage unit should be even better together in this Leap Year!

For anyone who has additional information, other players to add, scouting reports, system-role players (i.e. how'd they fit into our 53/46), etc. please add.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread. It's safe to say we all have a very comprehensive perspective on our team needs and this FO has done a tremendous job signing our core players and securing our present and long-term future of being a Championship-caliber team!

Good article by Kevin and something to keep in mind when making up your Mock Drafts:

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/04/29/on-highly-drafted-wrs-and-pro-bowl-percentage/

Since 1990, the 49ers have selected 10 wide receivers in the first, second or third round. Of those 10, only three – Terrell Owens, Michael Crabtree and J.J. Stokes — have had more than 78 career receptions.

The other seven include two first rounders – A.J. Jenkins (2012) and Rashaun Woods (2004) – who combined for 17 games and seven catches with the Niners. The other five were third-round picks: Jason Hill (2007), Brandon Williams (2006), Derek Hamilton (2004), Cory Fleming (1994) and Ron Lewis (1990).

(Do you need a moment?)

The 49ers, of course, figure to try again in next week's draft. They are expected to select a wide receiver with their first round (No. 30) or one of their two second-round picks (Nos. 56 and 61).

Sammy Watkins. Mike Evans. Odell Beckham. Brandin Cooks. Marqise Lee. Kelvin Benjamin. Davante Adams.

Recent history suggests the majority of those wideouts won't achieve the stardom that appears quite possible before their first career snap.

Of the 183 wideouts drafted in the first or second round since 1990, 20 percent (36) have earned at least one Pro Bowl berth at their position, the lowest percentage among any offensive spot.

Granted, Pro Bowl berths are an imperfect measurement. The lack of one on a resume doesn't necessarily mean the draft pick was a flop. For example, Joey Galloway, Amani Toomer, Johnnie Morton, Plaxico Burress and Curtis Conway each had more than 8,000 career yards, but no Pro Bowl berths.

Still, the numbers below hint at the difficulty of evaluating college wide receivers (click on links and sort by "PB"):

Percentage of Pro Bowl berths among first- or second-round picks since 1990 (Source: ProFootballReference.com):
OL - 33 percent (65 of 199)
RB - 32 percent (44 of 139) Note: Glyn Milburn made his two Pro Bowls are a returner.
QB - 30 percent (25 of 83)
TE - 26 percent (17 of 66)
WR - 20 percent (36 of 184) Notes: Cordarrelle Patterson, Dexter McCluster, Percy Harvin and Desmond Howard made Pro Bowls as returners; Dexter Jackson is listed as a WR, but played defensive back in the NFL.

When they traded up for JJ Stokes I thought that move was great. Man was he disappointing or what.

Originally posted by lamontb:
When they traded up for JJ Stokes I thought that move was great. Man was he disappointing or what.

I will never forget his quote, paraphrased, I'm 6'5" I'm ALWAYS open. I sort of agreed with him...Young didn't do th best job of using that huge catching radius. Man, we have the worst luck drafting WR's in the 1st round (and even worse developing them).

Originally posted by NCommand:
Still, the numbers below hint at the difficulty of evaluating college wide receivers (click on links and sort by "PB"):

Percentage of Pro Bowl berths among first- or second-round picks since 1990 (Source: ProFootballReference.com):
OL - 33 percent (65 of 199)
RB - 32 percent (44 of 139) Note: Glyn Milburn made his two Pro Bowls are a returner.
QB - 30 percent (25 of 83)
TE -26 percent (17 of 66)
WR - 20 percent (36 of 184) Notes: Cordarrelle Patterson, Dexter McCluster, Percy Harvin and Desmond Howard made Pro Bowls as returners; Dexter Jackson is listed as a WR, but played defensive back in the NFL.

Very interesting. I wonder why the receiver position is so much harder. It might have something to do with the fact that when they get into the NFL every single corner they play against is probably better than the best corner on every team they've played up to that point. It might be related to the mindset of receivers. I think they are more likely to be divas at the college level - the big school starters have been catered to and pampered since they were in early high school. They get into the NFL and they immediately start getting beat up.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Brock (5'10"--197) and Culliver (6'--199) are the likely starters going into training camp and they are 25 years old. Behind them will be:

Wright--28--5'10"--200
Cox--27--6' 0"--198
Cook--27--6'2"--212
Morris--23--5'10"--188
Swanson--23--5'11"--191

Add in a top rookie and there should be plenty of competion and depth. Fangio and Donatell are really great at making the most of their DBs, so I am not that worried about this position. Much more worried about Center and WR...will they all be ready and healthy?

Agreed.
Brock = #1 backed up by Cox & Cook
Culliver = #2 (if not, already plays the #3 slot position) backed up by Wright & Cox
Wright = #3 (same as last year)
Cox = #4
Morris = #5/Slot backed up by Swanson

With Reid & Bethea out there, we also have options in utilizing Moody as a hybrid S/LB in coverage or even Spillman.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Still, the numbers below hint at the difficulty of evaluating college wide receivers (click on links and sort by "PB"):

Percentage of Pro Bowl berths among first- or second-round picks since 1990 (Source: ProFootballReference.com):
OL - 33 percent (65 of 199)
RB - 32 percent (44 of 139) Note: Glyn Milburn made his two Pro Bowls are a returner.
QB - 30 percent (25 of 83)
TE -26 percent (17 of 66)
WR - 20 percent (36 of 184) Notes: Cordarrelle Patterson, Dexter McCluster, Percy Harvin and Desmond Howard made Pro Bowls as returners; Dexter Jackson is listed as a WR, but played defensive back in the NFL.

Very interesting. I wonder why the receiver position is so much harder. It might have something to do with the fact that when they get into the NFL every single corner they play against is probably better than the best corner on every team they've played up to that point. It might be related to the mindset of receivers. I think they are more likely to be divas at the college level - the big school starters have been catered to and pampered since they were in early high school. They get into the NFL and they immediately start getting beat up.

Pretty remarkable how poor that rate is too compared to OL. OL, you need FIVE players whereas with WR, you need TWO. Yet WR is the 2nd most drafted to the OL in the first round and only at a 20% success rate.

Maybe we shouldn't be so hard on Trent/KC for Jenkins/Baldwin.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Pretty remarkable how poor that rate is too compared to OL. OL, you need FIVE players whereas with WR, you need TWO. Yet WR is the 2nd most drafted to the OL in the first round and only at a 20% success rate.

Maybe we shouldn't be so hard on Trent/KC for Jenkins/Baldwin.

I always remember something I heard Steve Young say one time: " In college everyone is open. In the pros, nobody is open." He went on to say something about how the level of play in pro secondaries is so far beyond college that it's always shocking at first for both QB's and receivers.

Good Lord, NC. I recall reading this (but forgot), and am stunned by just how good we could be going into the draft. If we can field a 3 CB press, whether the 3rd presser is CB, S or LB, then I would say we are in great shape. I guess watching practices, not just games, JH and Trent just know so much more about what we have out there that while some guys(like me)worry, the F.O. just goes about its business, making the team better where THEY KNOW they need to. Maybe my choice of 2 CBs as our first two picks was a tad foolish. It could happen, but after reading this list again, ok, we get 1 starting CB, then the WR... The CB trent wants tho, may not be there after #15 so like last yr with Reid he goes up 15 slots...if he does that, then we know that CB is a starter out of the gate. He doesn't jump unless he really likes a guy to start.

Again it points to your really nice piece on the farm system that trent has built. One wonders just what kind of talent we do have sitting, just waiting for their chance to start. Obviously jH and Trent aren't infallible , as they would have started Brock over the guy he replaced earlier on. Still Brock ultimately got out there. But it could have been a lot sooner. The SEA game in the NFCC really impressed upon me the need for 3 press CBs or 2 CBs with a press S or LB, because it seemed they played press all game long...and there were 3 of them, not two. On the fateful pass to crabs, there were two all pros there to defend...and that ended the game. Not sure if SEA used 3 CBs or 2 with a S but whatever, it was impressive. Our guys were covered well.

The sad thing is roman forgot anquan and the jump ball on the OOB marker at the 1st down or Goal line pass. That sucker is indefensible, even by SEA. Yet unbelievably, we never used it after Anquan beat us with that play time and again to win the SB. Sure would like to see that on 3rd down or in the RZ this yr.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Pretty remarkable how poor that rate is too compared to OL. OL, you need FIVE players whereas with WR, you need TWO. Yet WR is the 2nd most drafted to the OL in the first round and only at a 20% success rate.

Maybe we shouldn't be so hard on Trent/KC for Jenkins/Baldwin.

I always remember something I heard Steve Young say one time: " In college everyone is open. In the pros, nobody is open." He went on to say something about how the level of play in pro secondaries is so far beyond college that it's always shocking at first for both QB's and receivers.

So true!

how do you get to hall of fame status ?