What is the real problem with this offensive offense?

INJURIES

Originally posted by sacninesixteen:

Originally posted by REALISTIC:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they may have been bad but they were actually passing game/offensive coordinators not run game professionals like roman. i dont hate roman that much but i do think hes a huge reason our passing game sucks, its just not his thing. kap misses some stuff but our oline and receivers arent really helping either

I guess that one's on Harbaugh. He brought him in and he's sticking with him.

He is the head coach and he's sitting back and letting it happen.

In the end this is where the offensive failures have to lie. You can blame Roman or Kaep or anyone else for so long but if adjustments haven't been made or aren't working the Head Coach is the man to look at. It's his job to get the best personel on the field. It's his job to get the players ready. It's his job to sign off on gameplans and playcalls. He is the only one on gameday to VETO any decision made by his staff.

That said I think Jim does a great job in accepting the criticism and above all else he wants to win. If he doesn't think the guys are doing their jobs he will take steps to rectify the problem IMO. Also, he never hangs his players or staff out to dry. He accepts full responsibility for what happens on gameday.

Originally posted by AUniner:

Originally posted by sacninesixteen:

Originally posted by REALISTIC:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they may have been bad but they were actually passing game/offensive coordinators not run game professionals like roman. i dont hate roman that much but i do think hes a huge reason our passing game sucks, its just not his thing. kap misses some stuff but our oline and receivers arent really helping either

I guess that one's on Harbaugh. He brought him in and he's sticking with him.

He is the head coach and he's sitting back and letting it happen.

In the end this is where the offensive failures have to lie. You can blame Roman or Kaep or anyone else for so long but if adjustments haven't been made or aren't working the Head Coach is the man to look at. It's his job to get the best personel on the field. It's his job to get the players ready. It's his job to sign off on gameplans and playcalls. He is the only one on gameday to VETO any decision made by his staff.

That said I think Jim does a great job in accepting the criticism and above all else he wants to win. If he doesn't think the guys are doing their jobs he will take steps to rectify the problem IMO. Also, he never hangs his players or staff out to dry. He accepts full responsibility for what happens on gameday.

That's fine but as HC you must also know how to fix it, and if that means changing the methodology then you change it. What we have seen from Harbaugh to this point is a strong power running attack but a college level (at best) passing attack. What we have also seen is that the better teams in the league have blunted the offense. As it stands now, this team may struggle to a 10-6, 11-5 season and a loss in the wild card game to Carolina at their place….or less.

We tried to prove we can just run the ball and don't really have to pass and have Kap game manage. I think we proved this isn't what we are.

We ran until we had to pass, then we telegraph'd by 3rd and long. Over and over.

Unleash Kap.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by AUniner:

Originally posted by sacninesixteen:

Originally posted by REALISTIC:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they may have been bad but they were actually passing game/offensive coordinators not run game professionals like roman. i dont hate roman that much but i do think hes a huge reason our passing game sucks, its just not his thing. kap misses some stuff but our oline and receivers arent really helping either

I guess that one's on Harbaugh. He brought him in and he's sticking with him.

He is the head coach and he's sitting back and letting it happen.

In the end this is where the offensive failures have to lie. You can blame Roman or Kaep or anyone else for so long but if adjustments haven't been made or aren't working the Head Coach is the man to look at. It's his job to get the best personel on the field. It's his job to get the players ready. It's his job to sign off on gameplans and playcalls. He is the only one on gameday to VETO any decision made by his staff.

That said I think Jim does a great job in accepting the criticism and above all else he wants to win. If he doesn't think the guys are doing their jobs he will take steps to rectify the problem IMO. Also, he never hangs his players or staff out to dry. He accepts full responsibility for what happens on gameday.

That's fine but as HC you must also know how to fix it, and if that means changing the methodology then you change it. What we have seen from Harbaugh to this point is a strong power running attack but a college level (at best) passing attack. What we have also seen is that the better teams in the league have blunted the offense. As it stands now, this team may struggle to a 10-6, 11-5 season and a loss in the wild card game to Carolina at their place….or less.

This is true. I mentioned that is has come to the obvioius point (yet, another struggle againts a good team) now, the patterns are very clear, and Jim needs to pull a John and bring in a real WCO OC. And it will be ugly for a while and there will be turnover in personnel b/c of it. But another poster brought up an excellent point...John is removed from any OC duties on game day so he's purely looking at results. His OC is either cutting it or he isn't. Done. Whereas Jim appears to be intimately involved, not only in the sign-off of the game plan but also the calls in-game. And like others have suggested, he himself may be fully grounded in the Bo Schembechler offensive philosophy and may seriously struggle pulling the rug out from under his own feet.

So here we are...all this wasted talent and we're here b/c of nothing more than a poor marriage to an offensive system that doesn't work in the NFL (when it matters most).

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
- the playcalling shouldn't get away from the run when it is working.. otherwise, it is fine and being scapegoated for poor player execution...

- I don't think it is at all as simple as to suggest that when Miller trots onto the field, we are showing our hand in running intent...

- RZ confidence and aggression is low, and the coaches need to go for it on 4th and goal in situations like the Carolina game...

- The weapons are fine... WRs/TEs can make up for lack of speed with sharp double moves, convincing play-action, and jump-ball situations that they are simply not getting chances to make.


- the biggest problem is that the 2012 Kaep is not showing himself. In 2012, he was having fun and relaxed. 2013 Kaep seems remarkably stressed and tense. He seems afraid to make a mistake... and his hesitations are causing him to not release the ball... not find open targets... and he is overly reliant on his athleticism to evade and escape the pocket to run. Well, defenses are being more disciplined, and those runs are not nearly as effective.

He CAN get this worked out. He HAS the ability to be a star. He just needs to relax... and better learn to trust his targets and what he sees from the D-coverage.

I believe in him... but while he is struggling through these issues, I refuse to blame everyone around him just because I am desperate to believe he is the Chosen One. And I do pray he is the Chosen One... because the only thing that would tick me off more than "my guy" being replaced by the Chosen One??? is that "my guy" was replaced by a fraud.

This.

I think you are labouring under a mis-understanding that I think Kap is an elite QB. He's not, he could be but he's not there yet. I am not an Alex hater, he had my full support while he played for us, and I have pointed out that the struggles on our offense actually are the same now as when Alex was QB. Our Oline was terrible against the blitz forcing Alex to eat a lot of sacks against the Ravens in 2011 and the Giants in 2012.

That is why I am pointing them out, because they are issues and concerns that have been seen before with a different QB and we had the same issues moving the ball. The porous O Line when pass blocking, the designated receiver - in 2011 Crabtree had 72 catches, Vernon 67 and next up was Williams with 20....

As I said in my post, trotting Miller on means it's almost always a run, but more than that because he doesn't have the pace Walker has we cannot use him with the same versatility, therefore the other team can still put 8 in the box and cover Miller if he leaks out as a check down.

They obviously are two very different QBs yet the offense still struggles. Does that suggest a coaching issue as much as a player issue?

When Smith did not "throw a receiver open" he was chastised for not throwing it away or taking a sack. Now Kaepernick is hesitant when he has a receiver open he is taking sacks and sometimes throwing it away. Same issue.

Everyone from Ray Ratto to Santa Claus (I can't think of any two more different) is blaming lack of quality receivers but Jonathan Baldwin caught 41 passes in two years in KC but can't even get on the field. He has been stuck behind Kyle Williams who is no longer on the team. If Matt Cassell can complete passes to Baldwin, what is wrong with Colin Kaepernick.

I believe a good part of the blame rests on The Great Quarterback Whisperer, Jim Harbaugh. I am no longer buying his resume. Josh Johnson was pretty good at San Diego but couldn't buy a seat on the bus in the NFL. Apparently what Harbaugh taught him had limitations. Andrew Luck was the best HS QB in the nation and he chose Stanford for academics as well as football (2 degrees IIRC). He had a great career there basically marshaling a college power running game with some nice passing. He had two years with Harbaugh and one with Dennis Shaw, during all of which he looked pretty much the same. Now he is with Indy and still doing great. I question how much of his success is credited to Harbaugh. Everyone talks about how Jim Harbaugh "saved" Alex Smith's career when all he did was recognize that Alex was the best option available, and he turned out to be a good one. However, any decent observer will record that Smith's career turned around when Mike Johnson replaced Jimmy Raye, not when Jim Harbaugh arrived. Alex was the same Alex before Harbaugh and is the same one now.

Now we come to Colin Kaepernick who is in his third year and is still having some of the same recognition problems he had in the first games we saw him play here. Yes, getting Crabtree back may help but he has had other receivers open yet failed to spot them and deliver the ball. So I am calling out Harbaugh to prove he is The Great Quarterback Whisperer. If Kaepernick was his handpicked guy (although rumor has it he would have preferred Andy Dalton) then it is time for him to make His Guy into the player we were led to believe he could be. Put a system on the field that includes multiple receivers that are in position to catch the ball, including short safety valves that take the pressure off the QB and allow him to develop.

Yes, the OL has allowed a lot of sacks but any system that spins around 5 and 7 step drops is going to put a lot of pressure in the OL. Go to quick drops with passing plays designed to beat pressure. This isn't rocket science. Just watch what Payton does in NO.

Yes, WR is a relative weakness but when Green Bay lost Finley and Cobb, Andrew Quarless and Jarrett Boykin step in and the machine rolls on. Kyle Williams may have been a false hope (although Alex Smith found him on occasion) but Baldwin shouldn't be. Time to look into the coaches lounge instead of just looking at players. We have become predictable and one-dimensional. Only one area to put that blame.

I'm starting to believe this because the evidence is starting to pile up and the results are irrefutable.

This week is going to be the ultimate test to see if they can get more creative in the passing attack. For as good as the defense has played, the offense is going to need to score, and Rob Ryan will be sending the house at Kaepernick until he and the coaches figure out a way to counter.

If they lose this week, I think the playoffs are going to be a dog fight to get into. Arizona seems to be getting on track, and playing in AZ is always tough, so the offense will need to be able to score there too. Now, all of a sudden, the rest of this schedule does not look so easy.

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
- the playcalling shouldn't get away from the run when it is working.. otherwise, it is fine and being scapegoated for poor player execution...

- I don't think it is at all as simple as to suggest that when Miller trots onto the field, we are showing our hand in running intent...

- RZ confidence and aggression is low, and the coaches need to go for it on 4th and goal in situations like the Carolina game...

- The weapons are fine... WRs/TEs can make up for lack of speed with sharp double moves, convincing play-action, and jump-ball situations that they are simply not getting chances to make.


- the biggest problem is that the 2012 Kaep is not showing himself. In 2012, he was having fun and relaxed. 2013 Kaep seems remarkably stressed and tense. He seems afraid to make a mistake... and his hesitations are causing him to not release the ball... not find open targets... and he is overly reliant on his athleticism to evade and escape the pocket to run. Well, defenses are being more disciplined, and those runs are not nearly as effective.

He CAN get this worked out. He HAS the ability to be a star. He just needs to relax... and better learn to trust his targets and what he sees from the D-coverage.

I believe in him... but while he is struggling through these issues, I refuse to blame everyone around him just because I am desperate to believe he is the Chosen One. And I do pray he is the Chosen One... because the only thing that would tick me off more than "my guy" being replaced by the Chosen One??? is that "my guy" was replaced by a fraud.

This.

I think you are labouring under a mis-understanding that I think Kap is an elite QB. He's not, he could be but he's not there yet. I am not an Alex hater, he had my full support while he played for us, and I have pointed out that the struggles on our offense actually are the same now as when Alex was QB. Our Oline was terrible against the blitz forcing Alex to eat a lot of sacks against the Ravens in 2011 and the Giants in 2012.

That is why I am pointing them out, because they are issues and concerns that have been seen before with a different QB and we had the same issues moving the ball. The porous O Line when pass blocking, the designated receiver - in 2011 Crabtree had 72 catches, Vernon 67 and next up was Williams with 20....

As I said in my post, trotting Miller on means it's almost always a run, but more than that because he doesn't have the pace Walker has we cannot use him with the same versatility, therefore the other team can still put 8 in the box and cover Miller if he leaks out as a check down.

They obviously are two very different QBs yet the offense still struggles. Does that suggest a coaching issue as much as a player issue?

When Smith did not "throw a receiver open" he was chastised for not throwing it away or taking a sack. Now Kaepernick is hesitant when he has a receiver open he is taking sacks and sometimes throwing it away. Same issue.

Everyone from Ray Ratto to Santa Claus (I can't think of any two more different) is blaming lack of quality receivers but Jonathan Baldwin caught 41 passes in two years in KC but can't even get on the field. He has been stuck behind Kyle Williams who is no longer on the team. If Matt Cassell can complete passes to Baldwin, what is wrong with Colin Kaepernick.

I believe a good part of the blame rests on The Great Quarterback Whisperer, Jim Harbaugh. I am no longer buying his resume. Josh Johnson was pretty good at San Diego but couldn't buy a seat on the bus in the NFL. Apparently what Harbaugh taught him had limitations. Andrew Luck was the best HS QB in the nation and he chose Stanford for academics as well as football (2 degrees IIRC). He had a great career there basically marshaling a college power running game with some nice passing. He had two years with Harbaugh and one with Dennis Shaw, during all of which he looked pretty much the same. Now he is with Indy and still doing great. I question how much of his success is credited to Harbaugh. Everyone talks about how Jim Harbaugh "saved" Alex Smith's career when all he did was recognize that Alex was the best option available, and he turned out to be a good one. However, any decent observer will record that Smith's career turned around when Mike Johnson replaced Jimmy Raye, not when Jim Harbaugh arrived. Alex was the same Alex before Harbaugh and is the same one now.

Now we come to Colin Kaepernick who is in his third year and is still having some of the same recognition problems he had in the first games we saw him play here. Yes, getting Crabtree back may help but he has had other receivers open yet failed to spot them and deliver the ball. So I am calling out Harbaugh to prove he is The Great Quarterback Whisperer. If Kaepernick was his handpicked guy (although rumor has it he would have preferred Andy Dalton) then it is time for him to make His Guy into the player we were led to believe he could be. Put a system on the field that includes multiple receivers that are in position to catch the ball, including short safety valves that take the pressure off the QB and allow him to develop.

Yes, the OL has allowed a lot of sacks but any system that spins around 5 and 7 step drops is going to put a lot of pressure in the OL. Go to quick drops with passing plays designed to beat pressure. This isn't rocket science. Just watch what Payton does in NO.

Yes, WR is a relative weakness but when Green Bay lost Finley and Cobb, Andrew Quarless and Jarrett Boykin step in and the machine rolls on. Kyle Williams may have been a false hope (although Alex Smith found him on occasion) but Baldwin shouldn't be. Time to look into the coaches lounge instead of just looking at players. We have become predictable and one-dimensional. Only one area to put that blame.

I'm starting to believe this because the evidence is starting to pile up and the results are irrefutable.

This week is going to be the ultimate test to see if they can get more creative in the passing attack. For as good as the defense has played, the offense is going to need to score, and Rob Ryan will be sending the house at Kaepernick until he and the coaches figure out a way to counter.

If they lose this week, I think the playoffs are going to be a dog fight to get into. Arizona seems to be getting on track, and playing in AZ is always tough, so the offense will need to be able to score there too. Now, all of a sudden, the rest of this schedule does not look so easy.

Actually, Ryan does not blitz all the much. What he does, and it will be problematic for Kaepernick based on the past, is that he disguises coverages very well. When he does blitz, that also is very well disguised. Ryan is a very good DC despite all the drama in Dallas.

For your reading enjoyment...



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000281316/article/colin-kaepernickled-san-francisco-49ers-struggling-on-offense

Steve Young was on KNBR tonight with comments that validated a lot of what we have been saying in this thread. (copy from the Kaepernick thread)

To summarize: In the Indianapolis game there were multiple missed reads by both receivers and Kaepernick, missed checkdowns, routes not run correctly, etc. Harbaugh recognized that the team had to get back to winning and do it right away. Hence he contracted (Young's word) the offense down to rely on strong defense, power running and very basic pass pattern with very simple reads. In short, Young said Harbaugh turned Kaepernick into a game manager as opposed to the dynamic force he was in games last season when the read option was new and no one knew how to defend it.

Now after 5 games of further contraction, the passing game is very basic. Very seldom is there more than one read to one primary receiver. Kaepernick realizes the offense is very simple and that plus the fact he is under pressure a lot and struggling to get the ball to a receiver has hurt his confidence to the point he is now playing scared and very tentative.

What Young said Harbaugh needs to do is to "expand" the offense, not "contract" it. Give Kaepernick multiple targets and let him learn how to go through progressions. If Harbaugh wants him to learn to read coverages and adjust routes and reads, he has to allow him to do it in games. He can't keep the training wheels on…or words to that effect.

Young also put a limit on how much blame can be put on the lack of receivers. He recognizes that losing Crabtree and Manningham hurt but does not accept that other receivers like Williams and Baldwin could not be used to at least give CK multiple reads. Other teams have injuries as well and backups step up and play. In the 49ers case, the contracted offense has become so totally dependent on Vernon Davis and Boldin that it is easy for teams to take them out of the game and then it is ALL up to the defense and power running. That approach will win a few more games this season but will not go far in the playoffs.

If the 49ers are to have a chance in the playoffs, Harbaugh must expand the offense. Put more dynamic, open plays and sequences into the offense. CK will never have the explosive impact on the offense he had last season with the read option (teams have learned to defend it) but he must be allowed to have other passing options besides Bolding and learn to go through the progressions quickly to get the ball to them.

That is the gist of Young's comments as closely as I can recall them. If others heard him feel free to jump in with your recollection. It was pretty clear Young without directly saying so, feels Harbaugh is restricting Kaepernick's development by the style of offense he has been running since Indy. While that worked for some of the weaker teams, it didn't work against Carolina and will not work in the playoffs. Harbaugh needs to open it up and let CK and the rest of the offense become more dynamic rather than just power running with a game manager QB that ultimately relies on a mean ugly defense to win.

He also predicted that the 49ers, given the current offense, will have to hold NO under 21 if they are to win. He does not feel Harbaugh and Kaepernick can turn this offense around in just one week but they must get started now.

Here's an old, but good article about what a dynamic passing attack needs. This is as advanced as an NFL passing attack gets, but nothing can stop it except high QB pressure. No way Kap can handle this yet, it would be the final stage in his development.

Option Routes

"Accuracy is all about technique and decisiveness," says Brady, who this year leads the NFL with 159 passes between 1-10 yards, according to Football Outsiders. "You have to use proper technique, and then have confidence that you and the receiver are seeing it the same way."

Option routes and 49ers

Maybe the Eric Mangini needs to end, and who the hell is John Morton, and what are his qualifications!

Wide receivers/tight ends: The most overrated storyline in the woes of the passing game is the perceived inability of the pass targets to get open. In watching the all-22 game video, this does not seem like much of a problem at all. The receivers are getting open – but that, obviously, has not translated into much production.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/whos-blame-breakdowns-49ers-passing-game

Originally posted by valrod33:
Wide receivers/tight ends: The most overrated storyline in the woes of the passing game is the perceived inability of the pass targets to get open. In watching the all-22 game video, this does not seem like much of a problem at all. The receivers are getting open – but that, obviously, has not translated into much production.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/whos-blame-breakdowns-49ers-passing-game

Some already knew this. Most are in denial. Every QB has WR's that are open. It depends on the situation of whether or not they throw it to them: don't see them, angle of the pass rush, incorrect presnap read, or just flustered.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/11/13/5099328/49ers-panthers-all-22-images-offense-kaepernick

So then.

Trent Dilfer was right. And Young agrees with him entirely.

That argument is hereby over.

And it is clear what needs to be done.