Our Defensive Coordinator, Vic Fangio

Originally posted by arniegaliffa:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

Angry words from an angry fan....lacking perspective and a thorough understanding of the game. Let's just review some of the pertinent facts:
We are going into a crazed SAF at Mile High on a night when Peyton Manning is probably going to break Brett Favre's all-time passing touchdown record. We ar horribly undermanned: No Aldon Smith, no Navarro Bowman, no Patrick Willis, no Ken Dorsey, no Chris Culliver, no Jimmy Ward. Playing hurt: Tramaine Brock, Justin Smith, Ian Williams, Perrish Cox, Tony Jerod-Eddie and Chris Cook. WOW! That's a lot of talent. Surely you must realize that there is only so much you can do with second and third teamers. What was evident to me was the foot-speed disparity between the Bronco's starters and our make-shift defense, particularly in the secondary. Sure, it's easy to say they should have had a bigger pass rush but you have to have talented pass rushers to accomplish that. When it became clear to Fangio that he would not be able to generate a pass rush, ( after about 3 Manning TD tosses) he abandoned that strategy and tried other things some of which were effective and some not so much. At least he tried to find something that would work, To suggest that he did not prepare for this game and that was the reason we lost just does not jive with reality.

Players are always dinged up and the players you noted were the same players that had us ranked #2 coming in. The only differences in personnel was one that was going to be made anyway...Brock for Culliver. Ward? I'll give you that as that was unexpected but what did we do last week when Ward got hurt? We just slid Cox from LCB inside to the slot and brought in Johnson/Cook off the bench to play LCB. Done. So to me, personnel is a bit of a Fangioexcuse and still, has nothing to do with the scheme he chose to run last night. And as to the adjustments, you may want to highlight those facts from last night (the ones that worked and the ones that didn't after being down 21 early).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by arniegaliffa:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

Angry words from an angry fan....lacking perspective and a thorough understanding of the game. Let's just review some of the pertinent facts:
We are going into a crazed SAF at Mile High on a night when Peyton Manning is probably going to break Brett Favre's all-time passing touchdown record. We ar horribly undermanned: No Aldon Smith, no Navarro Bowman, no Patrick Willis, no Ken Dorsey, no Chris Culliver, no Jimmy Ward. Playing hurt: Tramaine Brock, Justin Smith, Ian Williams, Perrish Cox, Tony Jerod-Eddie and Chris Cook. WOW! That's a lot of talent. Surely you must realize that there is only so much you can do with second and third teamers. What was evident to me was the foot-speed disparity between the Bronco's starters and our make-shift defense, particularly in the secondary. Sure, it's easy to say they should have had a bigger pass rush but you have to have talented pass rushers to accomplish that. When it became clear to Fangio that he would not be able to generate a pass rush, ( after about 3 Manning TD tosses) he abandoned that strategy and tried other things some of which were effective and some not so much. At least he tried to find something that would work, To suggest that he did not prepare for this game and that was the reason we lost just does not jive with reality.

Players are always dinged up and the players you noted were the same players that had us ranked #2 coming in. The only differences in personnel was one that was going to be made anyway...Brock for Culliver. Ward? I'll give you that as that was unexpected but what did we do last week when Ward got hurt? We just slid Cox from LCB inside to the slot and brought in Johnson/Cook off the bench to play LCB. Done. So to me, personnel is a bit of a Fangioexcuse and still, has nothing to do with the scheme he chose to run last night. And as to the adjustments, you may want to highlight those facts from last night (the ones that worked and the ones that didn't after being down 21 early).

Agree on the Fangio excuses.

That said, we were over-matched.

We played one of the GREATEST QB's to ever play the game, in their house.

I saw bright spots in how Kap could move the ball on them BUT our OLine couldn't handle their D. So we lost our running game which killed play-action.

Our D was on the field too long and Manning picked us apart.

Still, I think we will beat them if we play them again.

Glad we have the bye week.

Originally posted by arniegaliffa:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

Angry words from an angry fan....lacking perspective and a thorough understanding of the game. Let's just review some of the pertinent facts:
We are going into a crazed SAF at Mile High on a night when Peyton Manning is probably going to break Brett Favre's all-time passing touchdown record. We ar horribly undermanned: No Aldon Smith, no Navarro Bowman, no Patrick Willis, no Ken Dorsey, no Chris Culliver, no Jimmy Ward. Playing hurt: Tramaine Brock, Justin Smith, Ian Williams, Perrish Cox, Tony Jerod-Eddie and Chris Cook. WOW! That's a lot of talent. Surely you must realize that there is only so much you can do with second and third teamers. What was evident to me was the foot-speed disparity between the Bronco's starters and our make-shift defense, particularly in the secondary. Sure, it's easy to say they should have had a bigger pass rush but you have to have talented pass rushers to accomplish that. When it became clear to Fangio that he would not be able to generate a pass rush, ( after about 3 Manning TD tosses) he abandoned that strategy and tried other things some of which were effective and some not so much. At least he tried to find something that would work, To suggest that he did not prepare for this game and that was the reason we lost just does not jive with reality.

This is where you just completely get disregarded. If you want to state your opinion then state it. Don't say I have a lack of understanding of the game when it's been demonstrated over and over that I do.

And then you follow it up by saying absolutely nothing lol.

He didn't put the players in a position to compete like he usually does. The book on manning has been the same for 16 years. Knock the timing out of sync and he gets happy feet.

The opposite is playing zone coverage. We played zone coverage with man to man press corner talent out there.

understand that.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
In this case it's not rocket science. He can't handle pressure PERIOD it's why they work on timing and getting the ball out rapidly. he's not holding it longer than 3 seconds no matter what the decision is. knock them off their routes and hit him and he begins to crumble it's simple. and our team more than others has the corners that should do this and yet we didn't even try to. and they weren't even in diamond formations or stacked formations all night

running deep crossing routes across the middle of a wide open field

and people want to defend what vic did? that wasn't a talent issue that was a scheme issue. the talent isn't there in places hell yea and it's a major reason why we lost hell yea

but he didn't put his players in a position to really compete. the corners have been learning to play zone all year long last night was the night to let them wear their hair down so to speak and go do what they know how to do.

I watched Johnson level a WR last game at the LOS and he just tossed the guy physically off his route and he didn't have to bother with him after that. It was the first time all year I said, "Now THAT is a jam!" Not only is it a skill set our guys possess, but it gets them involved in the game, gets them focused and creates an aggessive mindset w/o PED's! I'm not saying we need to run press with single high S all the time but to integrate it with the 100% of off coverage schemes we employ now and especially do this WHEN WE BLITZ (creates more TO's). It's like have a really good pass catching TE but only using him to block. Why? And last night to me, was the time to switch the scheme up b/c it was advantageous to what we needed to accomplish. If they beat us, they beat us...well earned. But the fact was we stuck with the off coverage all game long 21 at half and all the way through. I think that really shows his stubborness. BTW: With Ward hurt, I'm missing Morris more and more.

See I'm not even suggesting we do it going forward against a lot of teams. I'm just saying this is the team that you do it against. What we've been doing has been working excellently. This game was the worst time to play off coverage out of any game. any game on the schedule this one and the saints games are the 2 times you press and the qb gets flustered because the timing is off. no 2 qb's are more dependent on timing than manning and brees

and we didn't even do what we could to compete. lack of talent yes very much so but you can't tell me that we couldn't have made it more difficult than have them run through wide open zones like we had them do last night.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by arniegaliffa:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

Angry words from an angry fan....lacking perspective and a thorough understanding of the game. Let's just review some of the pertinent facts:
We are going into a crazed SAF at Mile High on a night when Peyton Manning is probably going to break Brett Favre's all-time passing touchdown record. We ar horribly undermanned: No Aldon Smith, no Navarro Bowman, no Patrick Willis, no Ken Dorsey, no Chris Culliver, no Jimmy Ward. Playing hurt: Tramaine Brock, Justin Smith, Ian Williams, Perrish Cox, Tony Jerod-Eddie and Chris Cook. WOW! That's a lot of talent. Surely you must realize that there is only so much you can do with second and third teamers. What was evident to me was the foot-speed disparity between the Bronco's starters and our make-shift defense, particularly in the secondary. Sure, it's easy to say they should have had a bigger pass rush but you have to have talented pass rushers to accomplish that. When it became clear to Fangio that he would not be able to generate a pass rush, ( after about 3 Manning TD tosses) he abandoned that strategy and tried other things some of which were effective and some not so much. At least he tried to find something that would work, To suggest that he did not prepare for this game and that was the reason we lost just does not jive with reality.

Players are always dinged up and the players you noted were the same players that had us ranked #2 coming in. The only differences in personnel was one that was going to be made anyway...Brock for Culliver. Ward? I'll give you that as that was unexpected but what did we do last week when Ward got hurt? We just slid Cox from LCB inside to the slot and brought in Johnson/Cook off the bench to play LCB. Done. So to me, personnel is a bit of a Fangioexcuse and still, has nothing to do with the scheme he chose to run last night. And as to the adjustments, you may want to highlight those facts from last night (the ones that worked and the ones that didn't after being down 21 early).

Agree on the Fangio excuses.

That said, we were over-matched.

We played one of the GREATEST QB's to ever play the game, in their house.

I saw bright spots in how Kap could move the ball on them BUT our OLine couldn't handle their D. So we lost our running game which killed play-action.

Our D was on the field too long and Manning picked us apart.

Still, I think we will beat them if we play them again.

Glad we have the bye week.

Because it was a 7 on 7 drill. the wr's faced no resistance they were free to run their routes like it was practice

like i said talent or no talent missing all pro's or not put them in a position to succeed. running zone and playing off all night did them a disservice and we got handled on national tv because of it.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
In this case it's not rocket science. He can't handle pressure PERIOD it's why they work on timing and getting the ball out rapidly. he's not holding it longer than 3 seconds no matter what the decision is. knock them off their routes and hit him and he begins to crumble it's simple. and our team more than others has the corners that should do this and yet we didn't even try to. and they weren't even in diamond formations or stacked formations all night

running deep crossing routes across the middle of a wide open field

and people want to defend what vic did? that wasn't a talent issue that was a scheme issue. the talent isn't there in places hell yea and it's a major reason why we lost hell yea

but he didn't put his players in a position to really compete. the corners have been learning to play zone all year long last night was the night to let them wear their hair down so to speak and go do what they know how to do.

I watched Johnson level a WR last game at the LOS and he just tossed the guy physically off his route and he didn't have to bother with him after that. It was the first time all year I said, "Now THAT is a jam!" Not only is it a skill set our guys possess, but it gets them involved in the game, gets them focused and creates an aggessive mindset w/o PED's! I'm not saying we need to run press with single high S all the time but to integrate it with the 100% of off coverage schemes we employ now and especially do this WHEN WE BLITZ (creates more TO's). It's like have a really good pass catching TE but only using him to block. Why? And last night to me, was the time to switch the scheme up b/c it was advantageous to what we needed to accomplish. If they beat us, they beat us...well earned. But the fact was we stuck with the off coverage all game long 21 at half and all the way through. I think that really shows his stubborness. BTW: With Ward hurt, I'm missing Morris more and more.

See I'm not even suggesting we do it going forward against a lot of teams. I'm just saying this is the team that you do it against. What we've been doing has been working excellently. This game was the worst time to play off coverage out of any game. any game on the schedule this one and the saints games are the 2 times you press and the qb gets flustered because the timing is off. no 2 qb's are more dependent on timing than manning and brees

and we didn't even do what we could to compete. lack of talent yes very much so but you can't tell me that we couldn't have made it more difficult than have them run through wide open zones like we had them do last night.

It just cracks me up people quickly are resorting to "personnel" excuses again when there wasn't any changes from the end of last week. Coming in we were #2. We lost Willis, that's huge but was Borland that bad? Did he give up a TD? The rest was all the secondary and the only change was our #1 CB in Brock replacing a sub-standard player in Culliver. Ward wasn't a loss until Fangio decided to use Cook there instead of sliding Cox inside and using Johnson/Cook/Culliver on the outside like usual (like how he finished out the game last week!). The only difference was the scheme Fangio chose to run this game and HE made some odd personnel changes that made no sense to me and all backfired (Cook got hurt even more and had to leave the game after starting in the slot), shifted Cox and Brock in the second half, etc. Just odd...but I need to remember these coaches are infallible...(insert justification here). Jesus Christ...we just had 42 points put on us. We failed. Coaches have bad games!

Still a great coordinator. One of the best in the league.

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Still a great coordinator. One of the best in the league.

No question...the need to defend he and HaRoman at times goes overboard. Just a bad game plan. Period.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
In this case it's not rocket science. He can't handle pressure PERIOD it's why they work on timing and getting the ball out rapidly. he's not holding it longer than 3 seconds no matter what the decision is. knock them off their routes and hit him and he begins to crumble it's simple. and our team more than others has the corners that should do this and yet we didn't even try to. and they weren't even in diamond formations or stacked formations all night

running deep crossing routes across the middle of a wide open field

and people want to defend what vic did? that wasn't a talent issue that was a scheme issue. the talent isn't there in places hell yea and it's a major reason why we lost hell yea

but he didn't put his players in a position to really compete. the corners have been learning to play zone all year long last night was the night to let them wear their hair down so to speak and go do what they know how to do.

I watched Johnson level a WR last game at the LOS and he just tossed the guy physically off his route and he didn't have to bother with him after that. It was the first time all year I said, "Now THAT is a jam!" Not only is it a skill set our guys possess, but it gets them involved in the game, gets them focused and creates an aggessive mindset w/o PED's! I'm not saying we need to run press with single high S all the time but to integrate it with the 100% of off coverage schemes we employ now and especially do this WHEN WE BLITZ (creates more TO's). It's like have a really good pass catching TE but only using him to block. Why? And last night to me, was the time to switch the scheme up b/c it was advantageous to what we needed to accomplish. If they beat us, they beat us...well earned. But the fact was we stuck with the off coverage all game long 21 at half and all the way through. I think that really shows his stubborness. BTW: With Ward hurt, I'm missing Morris more and more.

See I'm not even suggesting we do it going forward against a lot of teams. I'm just saying this is the team that you do it against. What we've been doing has been working excellently. This game was the worst time to play off coverage out of any game. any game on the schedule this one and the saints games are the 2 times you press and the qb gets flustered because the timing is off. no 2 qb's are more dependent on timing than manning and brees

and we didn't even do what we could to compete. lack of talent yes very much so but you can't tell me that we couldn't have made it more difficult than have them run through wide open zones like we had them do last night.

It just cracks me up people quickly are resorting to "personnel" excuses again when there wasn't any changes from the end of last week. Coming in we were #2. We lost Willis, that's huge but was Borland that bad? Did he give up a TD? The rest was all the secondary and the only change was our #1 CB in Brock replacing a sub-standard player in Culliver. Ward wasn't a loss until Fangio decided to use Cook there instead of sliding Cox inside and using Johnson/Cook/Culliver on the outside like usual (like how he finished out the game last week!). The only difference was the scheme Fangio chose to run this game and HE made some odd personnel changes that made no sense to me and all backfired (Cook got hurt even more and had to leave the game after starting in the slot), shifted Cox and Brock in the second half, etc. Just odd...but I need to remember these coaches are infallible...(insert justification here). Jesus Christ...we just had 42 points put on us. We failed. Coaches have bad games!

Yea, when they do good Im here when they do bad im here too. they're allowed to make some mistakes it's not going to go perfectly however some common sense things shouldn't be missed. those are the inexcusable things.

you looking at all these 6ft 4.4 40 db's we have and decide to play them 10 yards off the los and run completely across the field with wr's lol with no help

you didn't prepare or coach this team this week. you just decided to mail it in and it showed

and it's especially telling when you see him shut the philly offense out.

so if he can scheme it that well to philly with basically the same talent why wasn't he motivated to do the same against denver.. was he too busy making his vacation plans or something?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Still a great coordinator. One of the best in the league.

No question...the need to defend he and HaRoman at times goes overboard. Just a bad game plan. Period.

oh yea that's not up for debate but the great ones have bad nights and its not against the law to talk about those games too lol

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Still a great coordinator. One of the best in the league.

No question...the need to defend he and HaRoman at times goes overboard. Just a bad game plan. Period.

Game plan is kind of limited when you're missing 5 starters on defense......I only defend Roman because idiotic fans dont know what they're talking about when they want him fired.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Still a great coordinator. One of the best in the league.

No question...the need to defend he and HaRoman at times goes overboard. Just a bad game plan. Period.

oh yea that's not up for debate but the great ones have bad nights and its not against the law to talk about those games too lol

100% agree. We scored 10 points on offense. We gave up 42 on defense. Not everything is a personnel excuse or player execution issue. We talk about those too!

I mean, what would have to happen for some fans to admit we called a bad game on offense or defense? We still had five-1,000 yard receivers on the field, Gore, Hyde, Ellington, Miller, CK, etc. (most talent in the NFL) and on defense, can anyone remember the last time we had "all of our all-pro's" on the field at the same time and were ranked the #2 defense coming in? I can't and I'm not sure if we've ever been ranked that high 6 games into a season. Top 10, 5, yes, but #1 and #2 in just about every meaningful category?

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Still a great coordinator. One of the best in the league.

No question...the need to defend he and HaRoman at times goes overboard. Just a bad game plan. Period.

Game plan is kind of limited when you're missing 5 starters on defense......I only defend Roman because idiotic fans dont know what they're talking about when they want him fired.

Seriously? You mean the same 5 starters we've missed all year...and then got our #1 CB back to replace the departed Willis? Come on man...we had plenty of talent on that field to at least make this a manageable game. It was the same lineup we ended with last week. We sat back and gave Manning all he needed.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Still a great coordinator. One of the best in the league.

No question...the need to defend he and HaRoman at times goes overboard. Just a bad game plan. Period.

Game plan is kind of limited when you're missing 5 starters on defense......I only defend Roman because idiotic fans dont know what they're talking about when they want him fired.

Seriously? You mean the same 5 starters we've missed all year...and then got our #1 CB back to replace the departed Willis? Come on man...we had plenty of talent on that field to at least make this a manageable game. It was the same lineup we ended with last week. We sat back and gave Manning all he needed.

uh, no. Didn't start the game with Willis, didn't start the game with Ward, didn't start the game with Culliver. You have Brock coming back after missing a ton of action.

We had 3 f**king corners available last night. Couldn't generate ANY pass rush with 4 players. Went down early vs. St. Louis. can't do that with Denver. Manning plays a full game. these weren't the Rams. Off man is our scheme. It would actually be effective if we could generate decent pressure without blitzing. I don't blame Fangio for the loss. Period.

When Brock gave up that last touchdown, why the f**k was he playing so far off? When on previous downs the CB's lined up didn't play as far off.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Still a great coordinator. One of the best in the league.

No question...the need to defend he and HaRoman at times goes overboard. Just a bad game plan. Period.

oh yea that's not up for debate but the great ones have bad nights and its not against the law to talk about those games too lol

100% agree. We scored 10 points on offense. We gave up 42 on defense. Not everything is a personnel excuse or player execution issue. We talk about those too!

I mean, what would have to happen for some fans to admit we called a bad game on offense or defense? We still had five-1,000 yard receivers on the field, Gore, Hyde, Ellington, Miller, CK, etc. (most talent in the NFL) and on defense, can anyone remember the last time we had "all of our all-pro's" on the field at the same time and were ranked the #2 defense coming in? I can't and I'm not sure if we've ever been ranked that high 6 games into a season. Top 10, 5, yes, but #1 and #2 in just about every meaningful category?

key drops and a missed field goal killed us. should have been 21-17 at the half and anything could happen.