Our Defensive Coordinator, Vic Fangio

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

The issue here is the talent. We are not Seattle and just don't have the talent to press wr's at the line. They would have simply beat the press and been even more wide open. And who are they gonna blitz with? Whilhoite or Borland? You gonna try a CB blitz on Manning with a depleted secondary? Niners just didn't have the horses and never got any production outta of the d line man.

Typically I agree with you 100% but just not on this first line. Culliver, Cook, Brock, Cox and Johnson are all "press guys" and many honed in on those skills in the off season. Cook even went so far as saying the team wanted him to continue to focus on that skill set as his main responsibility. Reid is ideal in single-high S b/c of his speed and range and play recognition. Bethea is epic in and around the LOS and playing down hill. Sounds like a Superbowl design to me!

Yet, in a game where we needed to play press and physically alter the WR routes to blow up the timing (and allow our pass rush to get there just after 3 seconds), we played off coverage and just let Manning pick apart our defense all the way down the field and target Brock (injured) with their best player. That's called scheming to win. I don't even think Manning broke a sweat last night. What, he threw maybe 1 or 2 passes over 10 yards? Simple, 2-7 yard passes all under 3 seconds. That's not "Manning being Manining" that's Manning taking what the defense is giving you (a huge cushion) and methodically marching down the field, controlling the TOP and then attacking with your best receiver on our injured sacrificial lamb.

Last night was a very poor game plan IMHO and it showed a lot of stubborness (which we all know about Fangio at times). His personnel choices were odd too...taking Cox who was rolling at LCB and moving him to RCB. Brock plays both CB positions. And instead of sliding Cox inside to the slot like last week, he uses Cook (who's been hurt all week and is best on the outside). He could have simply left Cox at LCB, slid him inside to the slot like last game and bring in Cully/Johnson/Cook at LCB when he slides inside. Insert Brock at RCB where he was before he got injured? At the end, he switched Cox and Brock anyhow (too late) and then had Bethea (not Reid who has the raange) try to help out Cox deep and both got beat immediately after the TO. THAT is poor personnel usage and (non) coaching. Everyone knew Manning would go for the throat right after a gift like that!

Thank you

he's been excellent as a coordinator
but this week he was absolutely horrible. back to doing the exact opposite of what we needed to do.
and i still refuse to believe tank can't get in the games.
head scratching coaching decisions after good plans. it's like he wanted manning to get the record with no resistance.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

The issue here is the talent. We are not Seattle and just don't have the talent to press wr's at the line. They would have simply beat the press and been even more wide open. And who are they gonna blitz with? Whilhoite or Borland? You gonna try a CB blitz on Manning with a depleted secondary? Niners just didn't have the horses and never got any production outta of the d line man.

Typically I agree with you 100% but just not on this first line. Culliver, Cook, Brock, Cox and Johnson are all "press guys" and many honed in on those skills in the off season. Cook even went so far as saying the team wanted him to continue to focus on that skill set as his main responsibility. Reid is ideal in single-high S b/c of his speed and range and play recognition. Bethea is epic in and around the LOS and playing down hill. Sounds like a Superbowl design to me!

Yet, in a game where we needed to play press and physically alter the WR routes to blow up the timing (and allow our pass rush to get there just after 3 seconds), we played off coverage and just let Manning pick apart our defense all the way down the field and target Brock (injured) with their best player. That's called scheming to win. I don't even think Manning broke a sweat last night. What, he threw maybe 1 or 2 passes over 10 yards? Simple, 2-7 yard passes all under 3 seconds. That's not "Manning being Manining" that's Manning taking what the defense is giving you (a huge cushion) and methodically marching down the field, controlling the TOP and then attacking with your best receiver on our injured sacrificial lamb.

Last night was a very poor game plan IMHO and it showed a lot of stubborness (which we all know about Fangio at times). His personnel choices were odd too...taking Cox who was rolling at LCB and moving him to RCB. Brock plays both CB positions. And instead of sliding Cox inside to the slot like last week, he uses Cook (who's been hurt all week and is best on the outside). He could have simply left Cox at LCB, slid him inside to the slot like last game and bring in Cully/Johnson/Cook at LCB when he slides inside. Insert Brock at RCB where he was before he got injured? At the end, he switched Cox and Brock anyhow (too late) and then had Bethea (not Reid who has the raange) try to help out Cox deep and both got beat immediately after the TO. THAT is poor personnel usage and (non) coaching. Everyone knew Manning would go for the throat right after a gift like that!

Thank you

he's been excellent as a coordinator
but this week he was absolutely horrible. back to doing the exact opposite of what we needed to do.
and i still refuse to believe tank can't get in the games.
head scratching coaching decisions after good plans. it's like he wanted manning to get the record with no resistance.

Well he got him that easily in the first half alone. LOL. Maybe...that's why CK was caught smiling and laughing on the sidelines after the INT. Maybe this was our agreement with Goodell to get Aldon back early. j/k.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

The issue here is the talent. We are not Seattle and just don't have the talent to press wr's at the line. They would have simply beat the press and been even more wide open. And who are they gonna blitz with? Whilhoite or Borland? You gonna try a CB blitz on Manning with a depleted secondary? Niners just didn't have the horses and never got any production outta of the d line man.

That's a lie. every corner he have on the roster is a better press corner than a zone corner. Every corner on the roster is learning how to play the zone they already know how to play press.

I didn't say they needed to blitz I said if they're not going to blitz they need to mess up the timing. Lynch was close to multiple sacks but the wr's are running free because our corners are 10 yards off every snap.

Blitzing Peyton would be the biggest mistake any team makes especially if your playing backups. Vic did what he could do with what he had against an elite offense. Denver right now is ELITE, SF is NOT. The outcome of this game clearly stated that. Even if we had Aldon, Willis, etc. in the game its possible Peyton would have did what he did to. Thats just how good he is. This isn't the playoffs, this is the regular season. Remember the greatest regular season QB of all time.

Originally posted by sanjo49er:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

ur tripping

Sooo trippin! Your gameplan is out the door if you don't get a pass rush on Manning. You need to hit Manning a handful of times to get him rattled and the niners COULDN"T do that. You can press or you can play zone all you want, giving Peyton time is like practice with him. Guys are ALL-PRO for a reason and they did not have all those guys in there. Your talking about probably the best LB corps in the league in Aldon, Navarro, Patrick, and Ahmad and only 1 played.

Refuse to bame Vic for this. Manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time. We had a depleted defense. He did what he could. Offense had to step up and, predictably, pissed themselves on the field.

Fangio schemed a shutout vs the Eagles - a top ranked offense. When is the last time Roman schemed an offense to blow out a top ranked defense?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

The issue here is the talent. We are not Seattle and just don't have the talent to press wr's at the line. They would have simply beat the press and been even more wide open. And who are they gonna blitz with? Whilhoite or Borland? You gonna try a CB blitz on Manning with a depleted secondary? Niners just didn't have the horses and never got any production outta of the d line man.

Typically I agree with you 100% but just not on this first line. Culliver, Cook, Brock, Cox and Johnson are all "press guys" and many honed in on those skills in the off season. Cook even went so far as saying the team wanted him to continue to focus on that skill set as his main responsibility. Reid is ideal in single-high S b/c of his speed and range and play recognition. Bethea is epic in and around the LOS and playing down hill. Sounds like a Superbowl design to me!

Yet, in a game where we needed to play press and physically alter the WR routes to blow up the timing (and allow our pass rush to get there just after 3 seconds), we played off coverage and just let Manning pick apart our defense all the way down the field and target Brock (injured) with their best player. That's called scheming to win. I don't even think Manning broke a sweat last night. What, he threw maybe 1 or 2 passes over 10 yards? Simple, 2-7 yard passes all under 3 seconds. That's not "Manning being Manining" that's Manning taking what the defense is giving you (a huge cushion) and methodically marching down the field, controlling the TOP and then attacking with your best receiver on our injured sacrificial lamb.

Last night was a very poor game plan IMHO and it showed a lot of stubborness (which we all know about Fangio at times). His personnel choices were odd too...taking Cox who was rolling at LCB and moving him to RCB. Brock plays both CB positions. And instead of sliding Cox inside to the slot like last week, he uses Cook (who's been hurt all week and is best on the outside). He could have simply left Cox at LCB, slid him inside to the slot like last game and bring in Cully/Johnson/Cook at LCB when he slides inside. Insert Brock at RCB where he was before he got injured? At the end, he switched Cox and Brock anyhow (too late) and then had Bethea (not Reid who has the raange) try to help out Cox deep and both got beat immediately after the TO. THAT is poor personnel usage and (non) coaching. Everyone knew Manning would go for the throat right after a gift like that!

Thank you

he's been excellent as a coordinator
but this week he was absolutely horrible. back to doing the exact opposite of what we needed to do.
and i still refuse to believe tank can't get in the games.
head scratching coaching decisions after good plans. it's like he wanted manning to get the record with no resistance.

Well he got him that easily in the first half alone. LOL. Maybe...that's why CK was caught smiling and laughing on the sidelines after the INT. Maybe this was our agreement with Goodell to get Aldon back early. j/k.

If it is I'll take it. It just didn't make any sense. i was watching the game and watching the type of defense we were running and i said the coaches quit on the team this week.

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

The issue here is the talent. We are not Seattle and just don't have the talent to press wr's at the line. They would have simply beat the press and been even more wide open. And who are they gonna blitz with? Whilhoite or Borland? You gonna try a CB blitz on Manning with a depleted secondary? Niners just didn't have the horses and never got any production outta of the d line man.

That's a lie. every corner he have on the roster is a better press corner than a zone corner. Every corner on the roster is learning how to play the zone they already know how to play press.

I didn't say they needed to blitz I said if they're not going to blitz they need to mess up the timing. Lynch was close to multiple sacks but the wr's are running free because our corners are 10 yards off every snap.

Blitzing Peyton would be the biggest mistake any team makes especially if your playing backups. Vic did what he could do with what he had against an elite offense. Denver right now is ELITE, SF is NOT. The outcome of this game clearly stated that. Even if we had Aldon, Willis, etc. in the game its possible Peyton would have did what he did to. Thats just how good he is. This isn't the playoffs, this is the regular season. Remember the greatest regular season QB of all time.

No he did not. that's the point. he did not do what he could. Lynch was a hair away from having multiple sacks last night.. you know why he didn't get those sacks? free releases

knock those dudes off of their routes within the first 5 yards and they fold like tissue paper. the one thing we could do as a defense was press all of their wr's that's the 1 thing that we could have done to change the defense drastically.

and we did not do it. he did not do what he could have done against the offense. he did the opposite. and put up no resistance.

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by sanjo49er:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

ur tripping

Sooo trippin! Your gameplan is out the door if you don't get a pass rush on Manning. You need to hit Manning a handful of times to get him rattled and the niners COULDN"T do that. You can press or you can play zone all you want, giving Peyton time is like practice with him. Guys are ALL-PRO for a reason and they did not have all those guys in there. Your talking about probably the best LB corps in the league in Aldon, Navarro, Patrick, and Ahmad and only 1 played.

yea you can't do that if the wr's are running free like it's a passing drill you're 100% correct.
if you allow him to get the ball out in 3seconds every snap you are absolutely right
NOW
if you press the wr's and knock them off their routes the pass rushers get time to fluster him and make him get happy feet.
you can't hit manning if you're letting the wr's run their routes

it wasn't on the linebackers last night.

it was on the plan to not press the wideouts of denver who are proven to be afraid of contact
we weren't physical at all.

is it me or did Brock looked like he got fat from not playing the last month??

He looked like he's had many many HEINEKEN while he was hurt..

Originally posted by Antix:
Refuse to bame Vic for this. Manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time. We had a depleted defense. He did what he could. Offense had to step up and, predictably, pissed themselves on the field.

Fangio schemed a shutout vs the Eagles - a top ranked offense. When is the last time Roman schemed an offense to blow out a top ranked defense?

he can have a bad game. and he did. the simple fix is to press the wr's so that maybe our rush can get there and fluster him.

playing 10 yards off of wr's running pick routes and underneath routes and long deep crossing routes across a wide open zone just doesn't make sense on a fundamental level.

Fangio did what he could with what he had wait until the big boys come back in week 10

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

The issue here is the talent. We are not Seattle and just don't have the talent to press wr's at the line. They would have simply beat the press and been even more wide open. And who are they gonna blitz with? Whilhoite or Borland? You gonna try a CB blitz on Manning with a depleted secondary? Niners just didn't have the horses and never got any production outta of the d line man.

That's a lie. every corner he have on the roster is a better press corner than a zone corner. Every corner on the roster is learning how to play the zone they already know how to play press.

I didn't say they needed to blitz I said if they're not going to blitz they need to mess up the timing. Lynch was close to multiple sacks but the wr's are running free because our corners are 10 yards off every snap.

Blitzing Peyton would be the biggest mistake any team makes especially if your playing backups. Vic did what he could do with what he had against an elite offense. Denver right now is ELITE, SF is NOT. The outcome of this game clearly stated that. Even if we had Aldon, Willis, etc. in the game its possible Peyton would have did what he did to. Thats just how good he is. This isn't the playoffs, this is the regular season. Remember the greatest regular season QB of all time.

No he did not. that's the point. he did not do what he could. Lynch was a hair away from having multiple sacks last night.. you know why he didn't get those sacks? free releases

knock those dudes off of their routes within the first 5 yards and they fold like tissue paper. the one thing we could do as a defense was press all of their wr's that's the 1 thing that we could have done to change the defense drastically.

and we did not do it. he did not do what he could have done against the offense. he did the opposite. and put up no resistance.

Via JTsBiggestFan:

Rodney Harrison said it in the pregame show: "You don't beat Peyton Manning with scheme. You beat him by getting to him and jamming his receivers."

This isn't exactly a secret people!

He reversed the quote though...it should be, "You beat him (Manning) by jamming the receivers which allow your pass rushers to get to him."

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

The issue here is the talent. We are not Seattle and just don't have the talent to press wr's at the line. They would have simply beat the press and been even more wide open. And who are they gonna blitz with? Whilhoite or Borland? You gonna try a CB blitz on Manning with a depleted secondary? Niners just didn't have the horses and never got any production outta of the d line man.

That's a lie. every corner he have on the roster is a better press corner than a zone corner. Every corner on the roster is learning how to play the zone they already know how to play press.

I didn't say they needed to blitz I said if they're not going to blitz they need to mess up the timing. Lynch was close to multiple sacks but the wr's are running free because our corners are 10 yards off every snap.

Blitzing Peyton would be the biggest mistake any team makes especially if your playing backups. Vic did what he could do with what he had against an elite offense. Denver right now is ELITE, SF is NOT. The outcome of this game clearly stated that. Even if we had Aldon, Willis, etc. in the game its possible Peyton would have did what he did to. Thats just how good he is. This isn't the playoffs, this is the regular season. Remember the greatest regular season QB of all time.

No he did not. that's the point. he did not do what he could. Lynch was a hair away from having multiple sacks last night.. you know why he didn't get those sacks? free releases

knock those dudes off of their routes within the first 5 yards and they fold like tissue paper. the one thing we could do as a defense was press all of their wr's that's the 1 thing that we could have done to change the defense drastically.

and we did not do it. he did not do what he could have done against the offense. he did the opposite. and put up no resistance.

Via JTsBiggestFan

Rodney Harrison said it in the pregame show: "You don't beat Peyton Manning with scheme. You beat him by getting to him and jamming his receivers."
This isn't exactly a secret people! He reversed the quote though...it should be, "You beat him (Manning) by jamming the receivers which allow your pass rushers to get to him."

In this case it's not rocket science. He can't handle pressure PERIOD it's why they work on timing and getting the ball out rapidly. he's not holding it longer than 3 seconds no matter what the decision is. knock them off their routes and hit him and he begins to crumble it's simple. and our team more than others has the corners that should do this and yet we didn't even try to. and they weren't even in diamond formations or stacked formations all night

running deep crossing routes across the middle of a wide open field

and people want to defend what vic did? that wasn't a talent issue that was a scheme issue. the talent isn't there in places hell yea and it's a major reason why we lost hell yea

but he didn't put his players in a position to really compete. the corners have been learning to play zone all year long last night was the night to let them wear their hair down so to speak and go do what they know how to do.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
In this case it's not rocket science. He can't handle pressure PERIOD it's why they work on timing and getting the ball out rapidly. he's not holding it longer than 3 seconds no matter what the decision is. knock them off their routes and hit him and he begins to crumble it's simple. and our team more than others has the corners that should do this and yet we didn't even try to. and they weren't even in diamond formations or stacked formations all night

running deep crossing routes across the middle of a wide open field

and people want to defend what vic did? that wasn't a talent issue that was a scheme issue. the talent isn't there in places hell yea and it's a major reason why we lost hell yea

but he didn't put his players in a position to really compete. the corners have been learning to play zone all year long last night was the night to let them wear their hair down so to speak and go do what they know how to do.

I watched Johnson level a WR last game at the LOS and he just tossed the guy physically off his route and he didn't have to bother with him after that. It was the first time all year I said, "Now THAT is a jam!" Not only is it a skill set our guys possess, but it gets them involved in the game, gets them focused and creates an aggessive mindset w/o PED's! I'm not saying we need to run press with single high S all the time but to integrate it with the 100% of off coverage schemes we employ now and especially do this WHEN WE BLITZ (creates more TO's). It's like have a really good pass catching TE but only using him to block. Why? And last night to me, was the time to switch the scheme up b/c it was advantageous to what we needed to accomplish. If they beat us, they beat us...well earned. But the fact was we stuck with the off coverage all game long 21 at half and all the way through. I think that really shows his stubborness. BTW: With Ward hurt, I'm missing Morris more and more.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
He did not prepare for this game period.
He let manning sit in the pocket did not press the wr's and let them run their routes like it was a 7 on 7 drill.
no excuse for the crap he pulled tonight. he should not earn a game check.

Angry words from an angry fan....lacking perspective and a thorough understanding of the game. Let's just review some of the pertinent facts:
We are going into a crazed SAF at Mile High on a night when Peyton Manning is probably going to break Brett Favre's all-time passing touchdown record. We ar horribly undermanned: No Aldon Smith, no Navarro Bowman, no Patrick Willis, no Ken Dorsey, no Chris Culliver, no Jimmy Ward. Playing hurt: Tramaine Brock, Justin Smith, Ian Williams, Perrish Cox, Tony Jerod-Eddie and Chris Cook. WOW! That's a lot of talent. Surely you must realize that there is only so much you can do with second and third teamers. What was evident to me was the foot-speed disparity between the Bronco's starters and our make-shift defense, particularly in the secondary. Sure, it's easy to say they should have had a bigger pass rush but you have to have talented pass rushers to accomplish that. When it became clear to Fangio that he would not be able to generate a pass rush, ( after about 3 Manning TD tosses) he abandoned that strategy and tried other things some of which were effective and some not so much. At least he tried to find something that would work, To suggest that he did not prepare for this game and that was the reason we lost just does not jive with reality.