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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Have you read none of oldman9ers posts? He has always had the perspective of football as a team sport. If you have to distort his comments to win an argument is it worth the effort?

Many of the Smith supporters, including me, see Smith's ability as part and parcel of a team effort, which is why players like Willis, Gore and VD have always defended him...it's a team sport!

Come on now, I know that these back and forths can become heated but let's not resort to this kind of thing.

To be fair, neither of them actually implied that only one player was responsible for winning the game. Just because monster does not share your enthusiasm of Alex Smith doesn't mean he can't grasp a simple concept, in this case the concept that football is a team sport.

I think many of us who do criticize Alex recognize that he has a role as a part of this team and can play that role very effectively. That's not to say that we can't get more production out of the position. Just as we can clearly get more production from our WRs and RG.
Originally posted by kush:
To be fair, neither of them actually implied that only one player was responsible for winning the game. Just because monster does not share your enthusiasm of Alex Smith doesn't mean he can't grasp a simple concept, in this case the concept that football is a team sport.

I think many of us who do criticize Alex recognize that he has a role as a part of this team and can play that role very effectively. That's not to say that we can't get more production out of the position. Just as we can clearly get more production from our WRs and RG.

To be fair, I did not suggest Monster was not seeing the game as a team sport, or that he thought one player was responsible for winning a game. Many of you non-Smith enthusiasts want to blame losses on Smith and now that the team is 13-3 you are looking for ways that Smith didn't help enough or at all. Losses = Smith can't play, wins = D and ST. Sorry, that is the epitome of a myopic nonteam point of view.

Team sports depend on chemistry. The OLine had a weak link last year, which is why Harbaugh and Baalke did not go after Snyder or Rachal in FAcy. They had only an abbreviated TC with no mini camps. They were also learning a new offense. I was surprised they played as well as they did to start the year but they did not progress as much as I thought they should have by the end of the year. This off season I would expect the team to fix this and they are trying. Many of us were worried about this a year ago, and were called out for making Alexcuses by those who would put all the blame on Smith.

The team took a look at PM, a future hall of famer, and the anti Smith crowd came out in droves to say...see, they don't like Smith!

Now there are some very astute posters suggesting Smith could be cut with little or no impact on the team. I disagree but that's what makes reading these threads interesting. I rethink my point of view all the time and am not locked into any player...been a fan too long for that. But Smith is the best player at his position on the team. So like any other position I hope they keep the best players and win games.

Lastly, it is so funny that the anti-Smith folks do not want to believe that Harbaugh likes Smith as a QB. They go way out of their way to say he is just pumping Smith up, but he has worked closely with Smith and Smith is still listed as the starter. Which point of view is more wrong? The Smith has to go view, or Smith is the best QB on the team and should stay view?
[ Edited by dtg_9er on May 30, 2012 at 6:18 AM ]
^^^ Great stuff!
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Great stuff!


Thanks! I hope Harbaugh manages to stay in SF for years to come so that this team can regain its luster. Players will come and go, just as under Walsh and Seifert but building depth and maintaining a geat system will keep the ship afloat!

Is the season here yet? Aargh!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Thanks! I hope Harbaugh manages to stay in SF for years to come so that this team can regain its luster. Players will come and go, just as under Walsh and Seifert but building depth and maintaining a geat system will keep the ship afloat!

Is the season here yet? Aargh!

Well put!

Seriously...so ready. So are the players/coaches...think they are have been working out the day after the NFCCG!
Nicely put dtg. As for Harbaugh and Smith, Coach liked him as his qB the first day when they played catch together , talked football. He said as much. Anyone that thinks our coach doesn't like alex is fooling himself. And in a nearby thread, i laid out the why of the peyton thing, and maintain it was just a meeting to get information about what peyton wanted. Coach heard it, and that was that. I still maintain, he and Baalke were interested in whether peyton was interested in another ring or just wanted $$ and control. Well he got both at denver, and he would have gotten neither here. Had he wanted the ring, $$ would have been 3yrs $8mil/yr , or essentially alex's contract. And surprise, suprise, peyton wasn't interested in the ring, he wanted $$ and control. More power to him. That thing with peyton was over before the 9ers talked with him, in that they already knew he wanted $$, which if we gave him, then we sacrificed adding to our D, keeping the D we had, and adding to our OL and adding 4 WRs. Couldn't have done that with Peyton on payroll for 1/4 of our cap $$. In the end, Baalke wouldn't have let him bust our salary cap, and Coach wouldn;t have given him control. No match there.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Nicely put dtg. As for Harbaugh and Smith, Coach liked him as his qB the first day when they played catch together , talked football. He said as much. Anyone that thinks our coach doesn't like alex is fooling himself. And in a nearby thread, i laid out the why of the peyton thing, and maintain it was just a meeting to get information about what peyton wanted. Coach heard it, and that was that. I still maintain, he and Baalke were interested in whether peyton was interested in another ring or just wanted $$ and control. Well he got both at denver, and he would have gotten neither here. Had he wanted the ring, $$ would have been 3yrs $8mil/yr , or essentially alex's contract. And surprise, suprise, peyton wasn't interested in the ring, he wanted $$ and control. More power to him. That thing with peyton was over before the 9ers talked with him, in that they already knew he wanted $$, which if we gave him, then we sacrificed adding to our D, keeping the D we had, and adding to our OL and adding 4 WRs. Couldn't have done that with Peyton on payroll for 1/4 of our cap $$. In the end, Baalke wouldn't have let him bust our salary cap, and Coach wouldn;t have given him control. No match there.


I agree with this and particularly the part about control! Even if the team was willing to pay Manning what he wanted I don't see JH giving him control over the offense.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
To be fair, I did not suggest Monster was not seeing the game as a team sport, or that he thought one player was responsible for winning a game. Many of you non-Smith enthusiasts want to blame losses on Smith and now that the team is 13-3 you are looking for ways that Smith didn't help enough or at all. Losses = Smith can't play, wins = D and ST. Sorry, that is the epitome of a myopic nonteam point of view.

Team sports depend on chemistry. The OLine had a weak link last year, which is why Harbaugh and Baalke did not go after Snyder or Rachal in FAcy. They had only an abbreviated TC with no mini camps. They were also learning a new offense. I was surprised they played as well as they did to start the year but they did not progress as much as I thought they should have by the end of the year. This off season I would expect the team to fix this and they are trying. Many of us were worried about this a year ago, and were called out for making Alexcuses by those who would put all the blame on Smith.

The team took a look at PM, a future hall of famer, and the anti Smith crowd came out in droves to say...see, they don't like Smith!

Now there are some very astute posters suggesting Smith could be cut with little or no impact on the team. I disagree but that's what makes reading these threads interesting. I rethink my point of view all the time and am not locked into any player...been a fan too long for that. But Smith is the best player at his position on the team. So like any other position I hope they keep the best players and win games.

Lastly, it is so funny that the anti-Smith folks do not want to believe that Harbaugh likes Smith as a QB. They go way out of their way to say he is just pumping Smith up, but he has worked closely with Smith and Smith is still listed as the starter. Which point of view is more wrong? The Smith has to go view, or Smith is the best QB on the team and should stay view?

Agree 100%.
I used to classify Alex as a "serviceable" qb....meaning he was able to keep them in the game and not lose games for them. Towards the end of the year, he started to show some ability to bring them back when they were down. I do think JH likes him but he also tries to generate competition on his teams to force improvement.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Great stuff!


Thanks! I hope Harbaugh manages to stay in SF for years to come so that this team can regain its luster. Players will come and go, just as under Walsh and Seifert but building depth and maintaining a geat system will keep the ship afloat!

Is the season here yet? Aargh!

Jim Harbaugh: "I always knew I wanted to play as long as I could and then coach as long as I could … and then die."
Originally posted by five1oh:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Great stuff!


Thanks! I hope Harbaugh manages to stay in SF for years to come so that this team can regain its luster. Players will come and go, just as under Walsh and Seifert but building depth and maintaining a geat system will keep the ship afloat!

Is the season here yet? Aargh!

Jim Harbaugh: "I always knew I wanted to play as long as I could and then coach as long as I could … and then die."

Epic!
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Alex Smith.

Hater or not, if he went down, so would our chances. Anyone who says Kap could come in with no substantial dropoff is completely fooling themselves.

totally agree
Originally posted by 49erstrandedinclev:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Alex Smith.

Hater or not, if he went down, so would our chances. Anyone who says Kap could come in with no substantial dropoff is completely fooling themselves.

totally agree

I disagree with this, because we aren't a passing team, so if lost we would be fine with Kaep or JJ. We run mostly and play killer defense. And Alex has never been a passer. He doesn't throw for 300+ yards, and throw 25+ TDs a year. He is a 14 TD guy, face it, Alex, Kaep, JJ or anyone else we would be fine with.
Member Milestone: This is post number 1,800 for 80sbaby24.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by 49erstrandedinclev:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Alex Smith.

Hater or not, if he went down, so would our chances. Anyone who says Kap could come in with no substantial dropoff is completely fooling themselves.

totally agree

I disagree with this, because we aren't a passing team, so if lost we would be fine with Kaep or JJ. We run mostly and play killer defense. And Alex has never been a passer. He doesn't throw for 300+ yards, and throw 25+ TDs a year. He is a 14 TD guy, face it, Alex, Kaep, JJ or anyone else we would be fine with.

Completely agree. Good luck trying to convince WZ of this though.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by 49erstrandedinclev:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Alex Smith.

Hater or not, if he went down, so would our chances. Anyone who says Kap could come in with no substantial dropoff is completely fooling themselves.

totally agree

I disagree with this, because we aren't a passing team, so if lost we would be fine with Kaep or JJ. We run mostly and play killer defense. And Alex has never been a passer. He doesn't throw for 300+ yards, and throw 25+ TDs a year. He is a 14 TD guy, face it, Alex, Kaep, JJ or anyone else we would be fine with.

I think this year we pass more.

There will be a noticeable dropoff in the short term. That could very well cost us a couple games.

I gotta say AB, you were one of the last ones I would expect to undervalue the QB position.
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