Originally posted by candlestick49er:
Before I start, let me restate what I said in my previous post.
"I provided stats to support my point, but as we all know, stats can be misleading. I do feel the pass attempt stats prove my point, however they aren't what I base 100% of my opinions on. I classify game manager QBs based on ALL (not some) of the characteristics I think make a game manager. Stats provide some support, but the qualities I listed are more telling than numbers."
The reason I don't base my opinions 100% on stats is because stats aren't always valid, for me and everybody else.
-I used Dan Marino, Manning, Moon, and Farve because they were pass happy QBs in different eras. You claim they are the extremes of their eras, however their pass attempts are similar to many other pass heavy QBs of their era. Like I said, the number of actual attempts haven't gone up...just the number of QBs throwing as much as them.
-You consider us pass happy at this point of the season?
-Seattle is a good example that supports your point.
You also have to look at the reason for taking sacks. Sometimes its because of bad o-line play, holding the ball too long, bad QB play, etc. Trent Dilfer, who we all consider a game manager, took many sacks. It was mainly due to his inability to read defenses fast enough.
I was unaware of GB controlling the clock that well. I considered them more of a quick strike team. The stat you provided proved me wrong here.
Ben Roethlisgerger? Yeah that rings a bell. He's the QB that played behind one of the worst o-lines. And yes, I've watched him play and seen him get hit on his dropbacks. The Steelers o-line was well known for breaking down and allowing easy pressure (like our current o-line). Big Ben had to rely on his tackle-breaking ability often because he was getting hit before he could set. Even when he was injured, his backups (including game manager Charlie Batch) were getting killed too.
Are you saying you can pass the ball alot and still be a game manager?
If so, why can't Joe Montana be a game manager? According to you, Joe threw the ball a lot in the 80s based on the standards of that era. So if Joe passed a lot AND managed games, is it so difficult to accept that others could consider him a game manager?
I made a general statement about most QBs in the 80s being game managers, which I realize was stupid to make a basic judgment. I didn't look into each and every QB and I didn't watch ALL of those QBs play, so I turned to stats as support. But like I said several times, my opinions are based on the QB's gameday approach/style...not stats alone.
I CLEARLY stated that I'm not comparing any players as far as abilities/production goes. I said game managers can be both poor & elite.
Do you realize that you failed to address points I did make, and are addressing points I never made?
1) I agreed with you that the standard of QB play is higher.
2) I already stated that I DO NOT expect our team to win with a Trent Dilfer-like game manager performance. So no, I DO NOT think we can beat explosive teams with 120 passing yards.
3) I NEVER said or implied that Alex Smith belongs in the same category as Joe Montana as far as ability/performance goes. I DID say that game managers can be poor, average, or elite. I consider both players game managers. Smith an average game manager, and Joe an elite game manager.
I don't even know why I'm wasting so much time arguing this, because here's the end game. My MAIN POINT is that being considered a game manager is not necessarily a bad thing, because some great QBs are/were game managers. You said it yourself, you considered the great Tom Brady a game manager at one point. If a great QB like Tom Brady was a game manager at one point (and won a Super Bowl at the point in time), why is it such a bad thing to be labeled as one?
Lets put all stats aside. This example proves my point perfectly without the use of stats or game manager definitions. You used a HOF QB as an example of a game manager. Thats my point, you can be a game manager and be great. People think of the Trent Dilfers when the idea of game manager is brought up...what about the 01 Tom Brady?
If there's any specific question you want me address feel free to bring it up. We're making alot of points at a time, and that's hard to go thru. I know I'm adding in points you didn't ask for but this thread is about Alex Smith the game manager. We're talking about Montana but I have to bring it back to the actual subject. I agree with you that you can win with game managers, but I also think that it's going to be tougher and tougher each year too. More protection on quarterbacks, and receivers, and everyone is passing it more. The standard of good quarterback play is rising by the year.
Alex Smith 2010. 3 games to me just isn't enough to work with. We threw the ball 55% of the time in 10 and that's in the upper half in regards to run pass ratio.
Green Bay's O line has been just as bad as Pittsburgh's, and both of those guys also have the tendency to hold onto the ball too long looking to make a big play.
In today's NFL without a doubt you can be a game manager and throw the rock. It's a pass happy league. Like I said only 4 teams ran the ball more than they passed it. You have to account for inflation. Personally I think quality matters when you're describing game manager too. If you're playing for field position more so than points and yardage that's asking your quarterback to be a game manager. If the trust isn't completely there. If you have a dominant O line like the Cowboys or Broncos did you'd be an idiot not to take advantage of that. Having a balanced attack to me doesn't necessarily equate to being game manager.
Your last point is a very good one and I don't disagree with that one at all. You can win with a game managers and there's been some very good quarterbacks who were game managers or at one point were asked to be game managers. I'm not arguing against that point one bit.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Sep 29, 2011 at 7:01 PM ]
