Baas=Heitmann=Snyder=Rags...and then there's Wallace

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by GEEK:
Let's settle the Heitmann debate once and for all by using facts and common knowledge.

Heitmann become a regular starter in 2004, playing at LG. He started in every single regular season game. Ted Tollner was the offensive coordinator.

Heitmann shifted to a RG/C role in 2005, again starting all 16 games that season. This was Nolan's first year as HC and Mike McCarthy as offensive coordinator.

From 2006-2008, Heitmann played only at C and remained healthy as he missed two games due to injury during the three year stretch. During this time period, Turner, Hostler, and Martz occupied the offensive coordinator position. This period also saw two offensive line coaches in Warhop and Foerster.

This past year, Heitmann played under Raye (another new offensive coordinator) and remained under Foerster's coaching. Now, he has a new OL coach in Solari, and he's basically a lock to start the 2010 season at center.

If you look from 2006 until present day, Heitmann has been the only one who hasn't been replaced by another player.

LT: Jennings (w/Snyder) -> Staley
LG: Allen -> Baas -> Iupati
OC: Heitmann
RG: Smiley -> Snyder -> Wragge -> Rachal
RT: Harris -> Staley (converted to LT) -> Snyder -> Davis

The 49ers brought in 3 main guys to compete for the center position: Baas, Wragge, and Wallace. Wragge and Wallace aren't even locks to make the final 53, and Baas is being groomed as a LG/OC backup. Heitmann won that battle.

I guess my main point is this: Out of 5 offensive coordinators (2005+), 3 offensive line coaches, 2 head coaches, and 2 GM types (McCloughan and Baalke), Heitmann is the only constant remaining along the offensive line.

I just don't understand how anyone can conclude that center is a pressing concern with the facts stated above.

I'm not sure anyone is trying to say that center is a PRESSING concern. I'm certainly not.

I am saying that there are aspects of Heitmann's play that are of some concern, and that although he has been the best of a poor OL these past several years, he's going to have to step it up if he doesn't want to be the worst of an improved OL.

pasodoc started out the thread (I think) by saying he thought Baas, Snyder, Wragge, and Heitmann are second level talents who've been thrown into starting positions, and that Heitmann is the best of the lot.

Maddog chimed in, and essentially conceded that Heitmann is not a top tier, pro bowl or all pro center, then he took issue with any criticism of Heitman's play. Apparently it infuriates him when someone points out that Heitmann, all too often, loses the battle at the LOS and gets pushed backwards--even though anyone who pays attention to the OL play has seen exactly that happen.

We're essentially arguing about nothing, but its been amusing.

I think you'll see Heitmann dominate now that Solari is the coach, upgraded player at LG, and another year of experience for Rachal.

My main point is that Heitmann has been heavily liked and favored by multiple head coaches, offensive coordinators, and offensive line coaches. If they felt they could get a better player, I am sure one of them would have got it done.

I think Heitmann's glaring weaknesses pointed out in this thread are due more for the talent around him than his actual talent.

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by GEEK:
Let's settle the Heitmann debate once and for all by using facts and common knowledge.

Heitmann become a regular starter in 2004, playing at LG. He started in every single regular season game. Ted Tollner was the offensive coordinator.

Heitmann shifted to a RG/C role in 2005, again starting all 16 games that season. This was Nolan's first year as HC and Mike McCarthy as offensive coordinator.

From 2006-2008, Heitmann played only at C and remained healthy as he missed two games due to injury during the three year stretch. During this time period, Turner, Hostler, and Martz occupied the offensive coordinator position. This period also saw two offensive line coaches in Warhop and Foerster.

This past year, Heitmann played under Raye (another new offensive coordinator) and remained under Foerster's coaching. Now, he has a new OL coach in Solari, and he's basically a lock to start the 2010 season at center.

If you look from 2006 until present day, Heitmann has been the only one who hasn't been replaced by another player.

LT: Jennings (w/Snyder) -> Staley
LG: Allen -> Baas -> Iupati
OC: Heitmann
RG: Smiley -> Snyder -> Wragge -> Rachal
RT: Harris -> Staley (converted to LT) -> Snyder -> Davis

The 49ers brought in 3 main guys to compete for the center position: Baas, Wragge, and Wallace. Wragge and Wallace aren't even locks to make the final 53, and Baas is being groomed as a LG/OC backup. Heitmann won that battle.

I guess my main point is this: Out of 5 offensive coordinators (2005+), 3 offensive line coaches, 2 head coaches, and 2 GM types (McCloughan and Baalke), Heitmann is the only constant remaining along the offensive line.

I just don't understand how anyone can conclude that center is a pressing concern with the facts stated above.

I'm not sure anyone is trying to say that center is a PRESSING concern. I'm certainly not.

I am saying that there are aspects of Heitmann's play that are of some concern, and that although he has been the best of a poor OL these past several years, he's going to have to step it up if he doesn't want to be the worst of an improved OL.

pasodoc started out the thread (I think) by saying he thought Baas, Snyder, Wragge, and Heitmann are second level talents who've been thrown into starting positions, and that Heitmann is the best of the lot.

Maddog chimed in, and essentially conceded that Heitmann is not a top tier, pro bowl or all pro center, then he took issue with any criticism of Heitman's play. Apparently it infuriates him when someone points out that Heitmann, all too often, loses the battle at the LOS and gets pushed backwards--even though anyone who pays attention to the OL play has seen exactly that happen.

We're essentially arguing about nothing, but its been amusing.

I think you'll see Heitmann dominate now that Solari is the coach, upgraded player at LG, and another year of experience for Rachal.

My main point is that Heitmann has been heavily liked and favored by multiple head coaches, offensive coordinators, and offensive line coaches. If they felt they could get a better player, I am sure one of them would have got it done.

I think Heitmann's glaring weaknesses pointed out in this thread are due more for the talent around him than his actual talent.

I certainly hope you're right.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

Ditto.

But now, I know why you got on me about my writing.

In any case I know it's only one play, but when he let Rocky Bernard go right by him and Smith was injured, it summed up Heitmann's performance.

Of course when the guys you call protection assignments out to, all look lost at the snap, I have a hard time believing that you're the guy that the announcers make Heitmann out to be. As you said OM9er he could be a great guy but there is a problem @ Center. Has been for a long time. So bad that it made arguably average Linemen look like they had no clue how to protect the QB.

Yes I'm speaking specifically about Harris. Oh yes the guy had his issues but nobody can say for sure why he wasn't as strong a Pass blocker as he was a Run Blocker. I surmise that a good part of it was confusion over assignment.

And Jennings as much as he had glass ankles was ready to punch Nolan in the mouth that one game. If Larry Allen didn't stop him I'm sure he would have. And it probably stemmed from bad blocking assignments leading to missed blocks which would have gotten Nolan on the guy that was missing the blocks(in this case pretty much everyone) one of whom was JJ who probably was correct for having a fit about being called out for something that wasn't his fault.

I like EH, but the dude has to slide back over to Guard. He's NOT a good Center and he never was. He was a STOP GAP and people need to keep that in mind. He did okay in that regard. Nobody can expect more from him. I don't because I don't believe he possesses that Killer gene that a guy like Bob St. Clair or Derrick Deese or Harris Barton or even Larry Allen had. I can list off all kinds of names in regard to Nasty. EH is not it and you can't coach Nasty to a player. It will NEVER happen. Either they have it or they get sick and tired of being beaten that they don't care what happens, cause they'll come back at you twice as hard as you came at them. I know that latter guy. That latter guy was me when I played. If you knocked me down my Irish took over. IMHO Heitmann doesn't have the Irish. That's why I feel he should move over to RG where that's not mandatory. He can also help his replacement with the call between series if need be.

One thing I've missed is guys on our sidelines going through play scans in between series. I hope Sing gets them back involved with that basic tool. Our Dynasty teams all used printouts to study between series and they all used to talk to each other. Our team needs to get back to that.

~Ceadder

Maybe Heitmann has the German in him instead.

Solari may put the Italian in him.

And I agree, why doesn't the OL go through photos, or play scans, between series? Absolutely need to get back to that.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Well, surprise, surprise.

I guess you perceive "so unassuming" to be somewhat insulting, after all.

Go figure.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Well, surprise, surprise.

I guess you perceive "so unassuming" to be somewhat insulting, after all.

Go figure.

What happened to you old? I used to enjoy reading your posts because they were well thought out arguments. I dont think before this ive read you flaunting your accomplishments to strengthen ur argument. Usually you let your argument be its own strength. And now trying to put people down? Come on man. Youre starting to sound like a lotta the trolls out here. You're hella better than this brother.

BTW i dont care about a side either way. I trust in Solari.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Well, surprise, surprise.

I guess you perceive "so unassuming" to be somewhat insulting, after all.

Go figure.

really dude? after you just told us what you think it means and then you use it against me im not gonna know what your talking about? i guess you didnt take any logic classes while you were getting your super genius of the universe degree

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Well, surprise, surprise.

I guess you perceive "so unassuming" to be somewhat insulting, after all.

Go figure.

really dude? after you just told us what you think it means and then you use it against me im not gonna know what your talking about? i guess you didnt take any logic classes while you were getting your super genius of the universe degree

~Ceadder

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Well, surprise, surprise.

I guess you perceive "so unassuming" to be somewhat insulting, after all.

Go figure.

really dude? after you just told us what you think it means and then you use it against me im not gonna know what your talking about? i guess you didnt take any logic classes while you were getting your super genius of the universe degree

Why so thin skinned about education? I only mentioned two degrees I earned studying English to let you know that I may have some idea about the nuances of what MB had written. That I'm not just making stuff up.

Same reason I mentioned that I once worked as a HS English teacher. You think I'm flaunting that, throwing it in your face for some reason? Like teaching English is some really important position? If you are a football coach, or a journalist, it might lend some credibility and interest to the discussion. But I can't mention my background or experience cause it hurts your feelings?

You totally missed the point, again.

As to my last post to you, I was just trying to illustrate for you my point. You don't think MB's description of Heitmann could be interpreted as meaning "Heitman's a p***y, or weak, or a milktoast." Yet when I used MB's words to describe you, you get all upset--hence my point. The words CAN mean what I said.

"You're so unassuming" can mean, you're too passive, too unaggressive, too weak, a wuss, etc. If not, they why would you get upset? (BTW, I don't know you at all, so I have no idea if you're "unassuming" in any way. Don't take it so personal--I was just trying to show you what was meant.)

Bottom line: you jumped in on an ongoing argument, took a side. And now you're surprised, and angry, that you get challenged as well? An old saying seems appropriate: If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Originally posted by ruthless49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Well, surprise, surprise.

I guess you perceive "so unassuming" to be somewhat insulting, after all.

Go figure.

What happened to you old? I used to enjoy reading your posts because they were well thought out arguments. I dont think before this ive read you flaunting your accomplishments to strengthen ur argument. Usually you let your argument be its own strength. And now trying to put people down? Come on man. Youre starting to sound like a lotta the trolls out here. You're hella better than this brother.

BTW i dont care about a side either way. I trust in Solari.

Actually, in this thread, all I've done is try to adopt the stylistic methods of my worthy opponent, to wit: Gross exaggeration of the opposing viewpoint, then a sarcastic putdown of that exaggerated position, along with a certain amount of self importance.

Its difficult to do that in writing because not everyone recognizes that its sarcasm; some think its meant to be true. It's not.

So, sorry if I offended you. And thank you for the warning.

BTW, I had no idea anyone ever enjoyed reading anything I've ever posted, or that anyone thought I had any well thought out arguments.

Apparently the only way to get any positive feedback on these boards is to act like an ass?

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Well, surprise, surprise.

I guess you perceive "so unassuming" to be somewhat insulting, after all.

Go figure.

really dude? after you just told us what you think it means and then you use it against me im not gonna know what your talking about? i guess you didnt take any logic classes while you were getting your super genius of the universe degree

Why so thin skinned about education? I only mentioned two degrees I earned studying English to let you know that I may have some idea about the nuances of what MB had written. That I'm not just making stuff up.

Same reason I mentioned that I once worked as a HS English teacher. You think I'm flaunting that, throwing it in your face for some reason? Like teaching English is some really important position? If you are a football coach, or a journalist, it might lend some credibility and interest to the discussion. But I can't mention my background or experience cause it hurts your feelings?

You totally missed the point, again.

As to my last post to you, I was just trying to illustrate for you my point. You don't think MB's description of Heitmann could be interpreted as meaning "Heitman's a p***y, or weak, or a milktoast." Yet when I used MB's words to describe you, you get all upset--hence my point. The words CAN mean what I said.

"You're so unassuming" can mean, you're too passive, too unaggressive, too weak, a wuss, etc. If not, they why would you get upset? (BTW, I don't know you at all, so I have no idea if you're "unassuming" in any way. Don't take it so personal--I was just trying to show you what was meant.)

Bottom line: you jumped in on an ongoing argument, took a side. And now you're surprised, and angry, that you get challenged as well? An old saying seems appropriate: If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

nothin against your education man, you just tried to throw that in everyones face because you took barrows statements one way and everyone who says otherwise is wrong. you told us what you think it means and then you directed it towards me, thats all im saying. if you just defined something the way you see it and then use it againt me it doesnt take an idiot to realise what you mean.

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
You guys can stick your head in the sand all you want. However, when week after week, writer after writer, and sportscaster after sportscasters make flattering statements about his play, at some point you have to abandon "the earth is square" philosophy.

Just admit you cannot fairly analyze his play, admit you have a bias against him, and move on. For myself, I'm just joining the rest of the civilized world in my assessment.

By the way, I'm sure MB has zero access to those in the organization who feel that Heitmann is a pretty damn good player....MD said with dripping sarcasm.

Cheers.

Listen, I'm not the one who called Heitmann a p***y.

Beerows did.

And, by your admittedly blind adherence to anything anyone writes about Heitmann (except us independents on the webzone), you did too.

Let's see, who is likely be less biased in their assessment of a player,

(a) those who consider what they've seen of his play and base their assessment on that, or

(b) those who apparently start off with some odd manlove for the guy, those who ignore his actual play over several years, those who rely on anything they can find that might be even a little flattering about the guy (while ignoring any criticism), and, those who angrily chastise anyone who might question, even in the slightest, Heitmann's play by making huge exaggerations about what they are actually saying?

Answer: a. (I'll give you the teacher's version of the test, with the answer included.)

So, "week after week," huh. Who wrote anything flattering about Heitmann's play last week? The week before? And the week before? The week before? Answer: No one. This is just more gross exaggeration and hyperbole. Aside from the most recent few lines from MB yesterday, where he called Heitmann a p***y (not exactly flattery), you're relying on stuff that's at least two years old.

MB might have access to the coaching staff and the other players, but you don't know if he's specifically talked to any of them about Heitmann and his play. You're just assuming that they'd say good stuff. Blindly making a huge leap of faith, and ignoring reality.

And you think we have our heads in the sand?

MB's recent few lines, quoted by you above, indicate that Heitmann is not assertive and lacks in aggression. "He's so unassuming." That's exactly what we've been saying--that he needs to step up, play with more of an attitude, be more aggressive, especially on important, short yardage downs.

If you'd pull your own head out of wherever it may be buried, actually pay attention to what we've been saying, and stop with the hysterical overstatements, maybe you'd recognize that we're not condemning Heitmann, we're simply pointing out that he may no longer be the best player on a very poor OL.

Cause the OL's not gonna be as bad as it was, hopefully, due to the infusion of new talent and new coaching. Capice? What part of that is "the earth is square" unreasonable? Answer: None of it.

You are a pretty bright guy, but this response was one of the stupidest responses I have ever heard. I hope you can get your emotions in check and backtrack.

You end your response with "we're not condemning Heitmann", but you start your response implying that he is a "p*ssy". How do you rectify these two comments. But, I digress......

Let's revisit MB's chat to see how your bias has blinded you so far that the English language is becoming incomprehensible to you. Here is the question and answer, once again:

Q:
Is there any chance David Baas could challenge Eric Heitmann for his job as the starting Center? Given Baas' record at Michigan and recognition he received as a Center there.

Friday May 28, 2010 12:42 Six-Ace-Deuce
12:43 MattB_49: Heitmann is one of the most underrated centers in the league. He's so unassuming. My joke is that if he starts a locker-room fistfight and the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk, he'll go to his first Pro Bowl. if the 49ers reach the playoffs, in fact, I definitely can see Heitmann going to Hawaii

How in God's green earth did you translate "unassuming" to being a "p*ssy"? You did read..... "the news gets picked up by ESPN and Pro Football Talk", which obviously does not question his toughness, but exposure on a national level. He is saying that Heitmann goes about his job quietly, and therefore....wait for the bell...is "one of the most underrated centers in the league". And, that if the Niners go to the playoff, he will get.....exposure. Any other interpretation is moronic, especially one that tries to imply that he is soft.

Please defend how you somehow came to the conclusion that MB was questioning his toughness, or pull back and admit that your comment was stupid. I'll give you a mulligan, and we can move on.

Boy, Maddog, you're usually not as obtuse as this post makes you seem.

Look at EVERYTHING MB says. He mentions that Heitmann is more than just "unassuming," he says he's "SO" unassuming--meaning even more than usually unassuming or quiet. He's saying that Heitmann is quieter than the usual quiet guy, less assertive than a regular wallflower, nonaggressive even more than a normally passive guy. (In other words, he's a wuss.)

Come on. Your reading comprehension is better than that. You can see that MB has "damned Heitmann with faint praise."

He says that "IF he starts a locker room fight, and it gets picked up on ESPN, etc., THEN he'll go to the pro bowl." In other words, if the most passive, least aggressive, most unassuming guy in the locker room ever starts a fight, and it's picked up by the media, then and only then he might go to the pro bowl.

That does not sound like MB is willing to wager heavily on Heitmann going to the pro bowl anytime soon, or starting a fistfight either, for that matter.

MB is saying that, although he likes Heitmann, he finds Heitmann to be extremely passive, very nonaggressive. He's essentially called Heitmann a p***y. Frankly, that's NOT a good thing in a professional football player, no matter how you try to spin it.

I didn't call Heitmann a p***y. I said that MB had politely called him that. (And he did.) Try not to put words that I didn't write into my posts and you'll have less trouble understanding them.

BTW, I hope all is well with you. You said that my post was "one of the stupidest you've ever heard." I sincerely hope that doesn't mean your vision is suffering in any way, that someone had to read my post aloud to you.

And you give me way too much credit. I've read, and written, many much stupider posts.

i dunno man, when i read that barrows quote i took it as meaning that heitman is so low key that a fist fight would get him noticed for his strong play and get him into the probowl. like hes an unknown and a noise maker like that fist fight would get him noticed. thats how i perceived it anyway.

Then you're reading far more into it that is there.

I could be wrong. I mean, I only have a MA in English from UCLA, a BA in English from Cal (Go Bears!), taught High School English for a number of years, and spend my time now writing briefs and arguments. So maybe I'm misreading it. But I don't think so.

And you're missing the point. MB's articles are interesting, but he's hardly an expert on OL play. I don't know that I've ever read an article by him that focuses, solely, on Heitmann or Heitmann's play. Are we to assume, therefore, that he doesn't think Heitmann is important enough, good enough, to merit such an article?

And why can't we depend on our own eyes? I can think of a number of plays in the past three years where Heitmann got pushed back into the backfield on an important, short yardage play. And how many fourth an one's have the Niners succeeded at in the past several years--when they try to run it or sneak it up the middle. None.

I don't give a fig about whether MB or MM think Heitmann's a swell guy or not. I'm sure he is. But there's a problem there, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not. It could be just an attitude problem, or a lack of attitude--but whatever it is, Solari and Brown have to address it. IMHO.

no need to be a dick and throw your degrees in my face man. you perceive it your way and ill perceive it mine. im with maddogg on this one. he wouldnt be a starting NFL lineman let alone one of our captains every year if he was a p***y.

Sorry to have offended.

I agree with you, but I am not the one who called him a p***y, or words to that effect, in the first place. MB was, in his article--even if you don't choose to see it.

Its called "damning with faint praise," and its a way to say one thing, and mean something else. MB did so in his post, outwardly praising Heitmann, but also calling him, politely, a very meek, mild, modest, unassertive guy.

Sounds like he called him a p***y to me, but feel free to believe/perceive it any way you want.

Again, sorry to have offended. Didn't realize you were so unassuming.

so your basically doing that to me now is that it? people who need to throw their possessions, and yes an education is a possession in other peoples faces and try to belittle them when they know nothing about them are very petty. i hope you enjoy your own company here because no one else does. perceive that anyway way you want sir. good day to you

Well, surprise, surprise.

I guess you perceive "so unassuming" to be somewhat insulting, after all.

Go figure.

really dude? after you just told us what you think it means and then you use it against me im not gonna know what your talking about? i guess you didnt take any logic classes while you were getting your super genius of the universe degree

Why so thin skinned about education? I only mentioned two degrees I earned studying English to let you know that I may have some idea about the nuances of what MB had written. That I'm not just making stuff up.

Same reason I mentioned that I once worked as a HS English teacher. You think I'm flaunting that, throwing it in your face for some reason? Like teaching English is some really important position? If you are a football coach, or a journalist, it might lend some credibility and interest to the discussion. But I can't mention my background or experience cause it hurts your feelings?

You totally missed the point, again.

As to my last post to you, I was just trying to illustrate for you my point. You don't think MB's description of Heitmann could be interpreted as meaning "Heitman's a p***y, or weak, or a milktoast." Yet when I used MB's words to describe you, you get all upset--hence my point. The words CAN mean what I said.

"You're so unassuming" can mean, you're too passive, too unaggressive, too weak, a wuss, etc. If not, they why would you get upset? (BTW, I don't know you at all, so I have no idea if you're "unassuming" in any way. Don't take it so personal--I was just trying to show you what was meant.)

Bottom line: you jumped in on an ongoing argument, took a side. And now you're surprised, and angry, that you get challenged as well? An old saying seems appropriate: If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

nothin against your education man, you just tried to throw that in everyones face because you took barrows statements one way and everyone who says otherwise is wrong. you told us what you think it means and then you directed it towards me, thats all im saying. if you just defined something the way you see it and then use it againt me it doesnt take an idiot to realise what you mean.

Your post presents some opportunities for sarcastic, smart ass replies, but it is not, and never was, my intention to offend you--or to throw anything into anyone's face.

I never called Heitmann a p***y. I just pointed out that what MB had written could be interpreted that way. You argued that Heitmann is not a p***y, and that MB's words couldn't mean that. So I tried to illustrate the point for you, directly.

Your reaction shows that the words "so unassuming" can be interpreted as meaning "weak, timid, a wuss, etc." That's all I was trying to show you.

But you go right ahead and believe everything Maddog is posting:

"Heitmann is the greatest center, ever. He has no weaknesses in his game, or his teammates would not elect him captain.

"Heitmann never loses at the LOS, or he wouldn't have been the starter all these years.

"Heitmann has never been pushed back into the backfield, and anyone who thinks they might have seen an instance of that in a game is hallucinating, drunk, or crazy. Or so biased against Heitmann for no reason that they are making stuff up.

"Heitmann didn't miss that block on Rocky Bernard, cause if he had, someone would have written a column about it.

"Every member of the media, across the entire country, thinks Heitmann is the best offensive lineman in the NFL. All he has to do is start a fistfight, and they'd all come out and say so.

"Now that we have replacements for Baas and Snyder, Heitmann will completely dominate every NT and DT in the league, cause it was those two guys holding him back all this time.

"Anyone who questions Heitmann's abilities, even slightly, actually hates him, personally, and is trying to murder his wife, kill his dog, and kidnap his children."

All this, plus Maddog has some very nice beachfront property on the Gulf Coast that he'd gladly sell you for a very reasonable price.

How dare I, a mere former English teacher, question any of that, or disagree with it in any way? (I'd caution you about the real estate deal, though.)

Since we are throwing degrees around here, I'll toss in my two master's and say that any interpretation of MB's chat as a criticism in Heitmann manhood is bunk...and you know it. Just concede it was a stupid statement and move on. The more you hold onto it, the more foolish you appear to all people on this board.

If you think you are so right in your interpretation, run a poll. You are going to lose the poll on your interpretation 90%-10%, and get laughed off the board.

Finally, I find funny the quotes around my "statements". If you were intellectually honest (I think that boat has long sailed away), you would find that I have never made any of the statements you have typed. I will state for the 1000th time, just to refresh your memory, that Eric Heitmann is a very good football player. I have never stated he is a great football player, never stated he is a Pro-Bowler, never stated that he grades out perfectly, never stated that he is unblemished.

What I have stated is the obvious: When everyone surrounding the organization comes to the same consensus: That Heitmann has been a very good player the past two years (which I have chronicled from their own words in this thread, in the "Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player" thread, and many others threads that have been started by the same cast of characters (know anyone?) who either belittle his play, or character (the "motivation" angle as stated in this thread is another of the classic boneheaded statements...as if the team captain is a slacker), or manlihood ("I'm not the one calling him a p*ssy"...actually you are, because any two-bit moron could interpret MB's statement as one describing Heitmann's low key nature...not his weak play).

In recap:
1) Please ask UCLA for a refund because you obviously are struggling to interpret something a 1st grader could comprehend.
2) Own up to your own bias against Heitmann
3) Play fairly with comments from others (by making up false statements, you only weaken your argument)

Just concede defeat, and move on.