Baas=Heitmann=Snyder=Rags...and then there's Wallace

Since his moved from guard to center, I've never thought that Heitmann is a bad center . He's good. But some how I always thought we could do better with someone more physical.

I said when Singletary signed Solari and Brown it would prove to be his best coaching hires...only time will tell, but everything seems to be pointing toward that. They should make incumbents Staley, Heitmann and Rachal better...throw in the two new big dudes and we have the makings of an impact OL for the first time in too many years. I like that they have both Baas and Wragge getting their reps at C...given they can both play OG, too. Wallace is a goner, pure & simple. That Boone's getting reps at LT could bode well for him, too. Snyder has versatility...making him valuable, even though he's not good at OT. Sims proved his value last year when Staley went down. In total, this is by far the best OL we've had in years, coached by the best OL coaches we've had in a long time. The results could be striking...maybe not early on, but as this group jells, the sky may be the limit.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Heitmann is such a big loser that the Niners.....don't address this issue in the draft....and the players vote him team captain every year...and the sportswriters state he is the best OL on this team...and Mike Martz says he was the best center he ever worked with...and, you fill in the blank with the other 100 things that state how bad he is....

At what point do you concede that your bias is slightly in the way?

P.S. Nick Mangold grades out at 100% every game and Jerermy Newberry never was beat. Never.

What bias would that be? Just because I disagree with you, have a different point of view, I must be biased? As Ochocinco would say: "Child, please."

You didn't like Taylor Mays as a safety--that make you biased against him?

Who sez I don't like Heitmann, or that I'm not rooting for him? Have I called him a "big loser?" No.

He's the most experienced Center on the team, and I have, in the past, defended him for his play, specifically against Seattle at their place two years ago when it was so loud the team used a silent count--i.e., snap the ball when he lifted his head--and Heitmann took a terrible beating, but kept on playing.

But I'm not blind, either.

Nor do I have some kind of manlove for Heitmann that makes me excuse every failure to execute properly that he may make. When will you concede that YOUR bias is getting in the way, and causing you to look for excuses for a glaring weakness in his game?

Just because the Niners had bigger needs (RT and LG) that they didn't take a center in the draft, doesn't mean they may not have looked at one, or might not have taken Pouncey if he'd fallen to them. We don't know. Likewise, just because he's popular with his teammates doesn't make him an All Pro.

And, again, your credibility suffers when you rely on anything Martz said. JTO in the HOF yet?

PS: Your hyperbole is misplaced and irrelevant.

Everyone makes mistakes. The question is, whether Heitmann performs at a high level when its important to do so. Given his struggles in short yardage situations, I'd have to say "No."

The first step in correcting a weakness is recognizing that its there. All I'm saying is that I hope he recognizes the problem and does something to address and correct it.

The coaches may already be doing something about it, hence the tryouts at center during the recent OTAs.

And just who is Jerermy Newberry?

When you can identify one person who sees the same weakness as you, from beat writers, Sando, the OC, the line coach, scouts, then let me know. Until that point, the "weakness" you see does not exist. Hence, the bias against Heitmann.

I am simply following the comments from everyone associated with the Niners and Heitmann. In other words, you are the fish swimming upstream, not me.

There are no tryouts for the starting position at center. To believe so would be idiotic. The tryout is for the backup role, and nothing more.

Mad Dog, i conceded that if heitmann has better players alongside him, he may step up his game a notch....which we would all welcome, and which he needs to do. OND has seen the same things I have, and as you say, heitmann is not an all pro. But when you repeat that he is the consensus best OL on our team, that is not a compliment. Our OL has been pathetic, and to crown heitmann as our best OL player is faint praise indeed. Also i don't agree that heitmann is our best OL...imo staley is. I repeat, heitmann MAY play better if he has better guys beside him. His penchant for getting pushed back into our qBs, however, (forget about rocky bernard for the time being) is not what you want to see in your center...particularly when the game is on the line.

IF heitmann is as good as you believe, then he should thrive under some good OL coaching for the first time since he has been here. Truly i want the guy to succeed because we have to have a decent C for the team to succeed. He has to play a lot better for that to happen imo. i'm hoping he can do it. You seem to think he is fine, but some of us just flat out don't see it your way. We would all love to be pleasantly surprised this yr by heitmann, because that means the team will do well.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by wrongway9erfan:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
McKittrick spoiled us. After him, there was no one with enough balls or talent on the coaching side to put emphasis or direction of how we want our O-line to be for the next ten years. You may not like Singletary's philosophy but he has put emphasis on the O-line. It's evident on the last draft. That's more than the last two previous coaches that was here combined.

If I recall correctly it was McNolan that traded up in 2007 to get Joe Staley in the first round. So far,IMO, Staley is a starter on any NFL team. They also made some decent pickups in FA that were good short term decisions but again, and I agree with you, not good for the long term. But, when the OC is changed EVERY YEAR starting back with Ted Tollner in 2004, it's not just a problem for a young QB--it also happens to be a problem establishing chemistry and continuity on an offensive line. It wasn't Nolan's fault that McCarthy and Turner left for head coaching gigs when they did--do you honestly think Nolan was happy with putting Hostler in charge? And we all know what went wrong with the Martz experiment.

It has been a comedy (no tragedy) of errors on the entire organization but with a renewed interest in the OL, sound coaching by Solari who brings McKittrick's style and philosophy back to the OL, a good draft and a little luck, this OL like Mooch recently said after the draft, could become one of the very best in the NFL. Only time will tell.

Side note: didn't it start with Knapp for the OC cycle? Knapp left with Mora to Atlanta, and then Tollner came into the picture?

03: Knapp (WCO)
04: Tollner (WCO)
05: McCarthy (WCO)
06: Turner (Digit System)
07: Hostler (w/ Tollner) (Digit/WCO)
08: Martz (Spread System)
09-Present: Raye (Digit System)

Right you are--7 yrs/7 different OC. Recipe for disaster.

With regards to Heitmann's play last year I'll have to agreee with OND on that one. When we need 6" and a first down in a game that we can and should win, Heitmann has to step up and play smash mouth football. I don't care if he has to move King Kong. That play represents all that the niners were and were not last year. They consistently came up short on big plays that meant the difference between a W and a L. With better guard play from Rachal and hopefully soon "the mauler" Iupati,
I believe Heitmann will raise his level of play.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
First off, I have made this statement many times in summing up the incredibly poor play of our OL...and never been challenged on it? Why? Is it true, or is that just confabulation? Let's look:

In ONE word, what is the difference between college football and the pros? It is...
"bigger-faster-meaner-quicker-smarter". Okay, let's look at the last decade at 49ersville. Any OL or parts thereof that stood out? Yup, and one yr only, LA(nearing end of career) and JJ Glass(managing to stay on the field most of yr) were a dependable 3rd and 3, must get, 1st down, and more often than not, they did. Worked during most of season, (Frank went for 1700), but would have not worked in playoffs, where that play would have been doubled, tripled or whatever, but it wouldn't have worked. Aside from that exception, our OL has been awful for nearly 10 yrs now. Why, what went wrong?

Of the 5 guys currently on roster, were any of them feared, or even keyed on by anybody? Except for a few games against Lams or AZ, (or couple other perennial losers) did our OL ever come out of a season and someone say, "Man, those guys just dominated?" NO, it never happened. So why?

Talent first:

Bigger---well, our guys weren't huge, but they were pretty much big enough. Yes, they did get shellacked by guys who were 30-35 lbs heavier, but overall, we weren't small, we were probabaly middle of the pack, but we were noticeably ineffective. In effect, we had 4 guys starting who played like 2nd stringers.

Faster---i don't recall any of our OL in last 10 yrs mentioned as being faster than any other OL. In fact, we weren't. If anything, we were slow.

Meaner---again, i don't ever recall that appellation being given to anyone on our OL in last 10 yrs, nor did they deserve it. Frequently, our OL just flat out got "handled".

Quicker---this we definitely were not. Yeah, maybe we had an OL or two who could lumber thru the 40 in 4.65 or thereabouts. But quicker? No way. We got outquicked by Ds so many times that it was embarrassing, and that was basically for the last decade. Last yr was no exception.

Smarter---by definition, any rook who comes into the league gets schooled. Okay, we all understand that. But to continue on that course, game after game, yr after yr? Well, there is something wrong, bad wrong, with that.

So, what happened? Here's a look at the culprits:

Ownership: reluctant at best, green at the worst, and incredible knack for doing the wrong thing, ususally in GM, Coaching, management hires. Hands down, worst ownership in league early on, but a bit better now. Long way to go tho.

HC: Between the Er-wreckson/donashole duo continuing thru "noln EMPIRE" we were league's worst, almost 7 consecutive yrs. And i don't mean bad, i mean worst in league. BigMike? Well, he's got this yr to get up off the mat. Another non winning season and he's gone, esp with 2 first round OLs.

GM: Er-wreckson/ mcCLown? How about worst ever? That's an opinion, but if not worst, real close to it, say #30 or 31 from top every yr. Worse, none of those jokers had any idea how to build a team from scratch. Well, here's a quote from Vince Lombardi. "Lines first. Build your lines first". With the #1 pick in the draft we take a QB...with nobody to protect him, and that continued thru alex's(and shaun's ) first 5 yrs. Finally with Clown gone, Baalke drafts two OLs...in first half of rd 1.

OC: No need to explain this one. New OC every yr for what, 7 yrs. JimmyRae, no household name, is first OC to make it into 2nd yr. That is a prescription for disaster...and it was(a disaster). Some simple things were continuously overlooked, easy things. If your OL can't block, then you snap the ball and sling it in the same motion. Our OCs had QB taking 3 step, 5 step and gasp, even 7 step drops. I mean, how much more stupid can a coach be? Invariably this gets your QBs beaten up and later operated on...which as we all know happened.

OL coach: Foerster? What can i add to the volumes of bad written about this guy? He was horrid, and the only thing worse than him being OL coach was that bigMike reportedly wanted him to stay on. For player development alone, this guy rated at bottom of league, consistently. He oversaw a losing OL based on speed, quickness, strength, smarts, and content. Content? That is playing to strengths of what we had...which wasn't much.

QB coach: Well, until our current one, they stunk. I have high hopes for MJ, who for a change has excellent credentials.

So, does Baas=heitmann=snyder= Rags ? I think based on performance of all, one would have a good argument for yes. How many were taken in the first rd? Umm...make that none. Did we get our moneys' worth? NO. Did we get what we should expect of an OL taken in 2nd to 4th rd? Yup. You want a starter, wait for a good OL class, and then take 'em in the first. Taking two in the 1st? Not done since 1970, and that bodes well for baalke. Basically my point re: the above OLs is that whereas none of them is bad, neither is anyone of them outstanding. They are all capable, decent backups. But a starter? I don't see one there.

And that brings up a last point. How on earth could we possibly have drafted 4, 5, OLs, and none of them, yrs later still not be true starters? Most of responsibility falls on drafting philosophy, of being able to get a starting OG in lower rounds, which is failed thinking. Except in unusual cases, that is flat false. Sure there are some sprinkled around the league, but they are exceptions, not the rule. Then, once we had these 5 guys, did they get coached up? Heck, no, and in Rachal's case, he actually got coached down. Way to go, Foerster. Hopefully solari and bigRay can turn this ugly eyesore around, and get Rachal back to his pancake blocs, which he was famous for at USC.

Forecast: I can't see anything but good coming from Foerster, noln, and Clown being gone. This yr we see if baalke has an eye for starting talent and if our OL coaching staff can teach basic fundamentals of OL, plus other things such as quickness, smartness, maybe more strength...used properly. Maybe jimmyrae will help the OL by calling plays they are actually capable of completing, as opposed to last yr. If not, he's gone along with bigMike by yrs end.(imo).

It is no secret i have made a case of drafting OLs in first rd for over two yrs now. Well, we did it...finally...and now we see if we have the other elements in place: coaching technique, coaching philosophy, and talent evaluation. My guess is that amongst baas, heitmann, snyder, rags, wallace, we have one guy who is a legitimate starter in the pros...but has just not showed it yet. It is possible all are backups, and that we drafted all 5 poorly, but i sure as hell hope not. The addition of AD and Iupati is a franchise changer. Now we have to get a starting Center out of one of the 5 guys mentioned above, plus rayBrown/ solari need to get rachal back on track.

We do that and this team is bound for glory. Failure to do this will make this team "bound up"... as in constipated...or if you wish, static, going nowhere.

Apologies for length of this, but as noted, it is a multifaceted, complicated, yet absolutely critical problem that has to be resolved...this yr.

Very true but get in Line cause I been screamin for Big Uglies every year. You know what? It's sad when a guy with no NFL Experience can diagnose the issues and what to draft for and the team management up to this past draft couldn't be bothered to draft Linemen. Don't get me wrong I like the guys we got Smith, Davis, Staley(*ahem* 1st rounder btw) Manny, Bam Bam and Alex. Pardon me if I missed anyone it's long past bedtime. But we've been in serious need of Linemen since Garcia and half the offense left en masse. Donahue was a moron for that. I'm glad that @$$ is gone.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Heitmann is such a big loser that the Niners.....don't address this issue in the draft....and the players vote him team captain every year...and the sportswriters state he is the best OL on this team...and Mike Martz says he was the best center he ever worked with...and, you fill in the blank with the other 100 things that state how bad he is....

At what point do you concede that your bias is slightly in the way?

P.S. Nick Mangold grades out at 100% every game and Jerermy Newberry never was beat. Never.

What bias would that be? Just because I disagree with you, have a different point of view, I must be biased? As Ochocinco would say: "Child, please."

You didn't like Taylor Mays as a safety--that make you biased against him?

Who sez I don't like Heitmann, or that I'm not rooting for him? Have I called him a "big loser?" No.

He's the most experienced Center on the team, and I have, in the past, defended him for his play, specifically against Seattle at their place two years ago when it was so loud the team used a silent count--i.e., snap the ball when he lifted his head--and Heitmann took a terrible beating, but kept on playing.

But I'm not blind, either.

Nor do I have some kind of manlove for Heitmann that makes me excuse every failure to execute properly that he may make. When will you concede that YOUR bias is getting in the way, and causing you to look for excuses for a glaring weakness in his game?

Just because the Niners had bigger needs (RT and LG) that they didn't take a center in the draft, doesn't mean they may not have looked at one, or might not have taken Pouncey if he'd fallen to them. We don't know. Likewise, just because he's popular with his teammates doesn't make him an All Pro.

And, again, your credibility suffers when you rely on anything Martz said. JTO in the HOF yet?

PS: Your hyperbole is misplaced and irrelevant.

Everyone makes mistakes. The question is, whether Heitmann performs at a high level when its important to do so. Given his struggles in short yardage situations, I'd have to say "No."

The first step in correcting a weakness is recognizing that its there. All I'm saying is that I hope he recognizes the problem and does something to address and correct it.

The coaches may already be doing something about it, hence the tryouts at center during the recent OTAs.

And just who is Jerermy Newberry?

When you can identify one person who sees the same weakness as you, from beat writers, Sando, the OC, the line coach, scouts, then let me know. Until that point, the "weakness" you see does not exist. Hence, the bias against Heitmann.

I am simply following the comments from everyone associated with the Niners and Heitmann. In other words, you are the fish swimming upstream, not me.

There are no tryouts for the starting position at center. To believe so would be idiotic. The tryout is for the backup role, and nothing more.

LOL. Gettin under your skin a little, am I?

Well, that's not my intention, and I apologize, really, cause I know this is a topic of special interest to you.

There were tryouts for center at the last OTAs, as you acknowledge in one of your posts, above. Whether those tryouts were for backup or for starter, frankly, we don't know, and it was not announced.

Baas took Heitmann's place with the first team, at one point--a factor that could be argued either way, though it seems more likely that the coaches might be looking at Baas as a backup center, rather than as a starter.

Or maybe they're trying to light a fire under Heitmann, to motivate him. We're not privy to everything the coaches think or say.

You can go on believing that Heitmann has no weaknesses in his game if you wish.

Or just wait for Martz or Sando or MM or MB or Skinny Post to tell you what to think.

Obviously, what those guys see and report is of interest, but as I've said before, they may not be experts on OL play, or may not be focused on the play of Heitmann, or may simply be pressing their own agenda.

So I recommend that we go back to watching the games and practices and deciding for ourselves. There are any number of other posters on this board who agree with me about Heitmann's problem, starting with the op of this thread, pasodoc. Salmon swim in schools, even upstream, to use your analogy.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who sees Heitmann as potentially the weakest link on a line of Staley, Iupati, Heitmann, Rachal, Davis.

Heitmann's gonna have to take steps to correct his technique, and hit the weight room with more dedication to address an apparent lack of strength. Or he'll stick out, again, only not as the "best" OL.

That's my unbiased view of it.

- I instantly presumed that the OC tryouts were nothing more than giving the OL a chance to show their versatility. This will help coaches determine who makes the 53 man roster and who hits the bricks. I seriously doubt that Heitmann is in danger of losing his starting gig.

- I actually do agree with you, pasodoc9er, in that far too often I have observed Heitmann losing his battle at the LOS. For all of the praise he receives, he sure does lose enough battles to make me less than pleased with him year in and out.

- Still, he is gotta be regarded as a top 15 center. He would appear even better had the Niners been fortunate enough to maintain the same offensive playbook year to year. Perhaps we could say that about all or most of our offensive personnel. I have been very hard on our OL, but much like the QB, it can't be helpful when there is as much change as SF has endured year after year.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
- I instantly presumed that the OC tryouts were nothing more than giving the OL a chance to show their versatility. This will help coaches determine who makes the 53 man roster and who hits the bricks. I seriously doubt that Heitmann is in danger of losing his starting gig.

- I actually do agree with you, pasodoc9er, in that far too often I have observed Heitmann losing his battle at the LOS. For all of the praise he receives, he sure does lose enough battles to make me less than pleased with him year in and out.

- Still, he is gotta be regarded as a top 15 center. He would appear even better had the Niners been fortunate enough to maintain the same offensive playbook year to year. Perhaps we could say that about all or most of our offensive personnel. I have been very hard on our OL, but much like the QB, it can't be helpful when there is as much change as SF has endured year after year.

OM9er I don't want a top 15 Center if he constantly loses at the PoA and barks out the wrong blocking scheme leaving everyone scratching their heads as their guy goes untouched right to Alex.

I'm tired of Jailbreak blitzes. It's frustrating to even hear Heitmann's name called in a game cause the announcers in the booth are applauding him for "being one of the bestest Centers in the NFL", you can definitely tell these guys don't watch our games much.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
- I instantly presumed that the OC tryouts were nothing more than giving the OL a chance to show their versatility. This will help coaches determine who makes the 53 man roster and who hits the bricks. I seriously doubt that Heitmann is in danger of losing his starting gig.

- I actually do agree with you, pasodoc9er, in that far too often I have observed Heitmann losing his battle at the LOS. For all of the praise he receives, he sure does lose enough battles to make me less than pleased with him year in and out.

- Still, he is gotta be regarded as a top 15 center. He would appear even better had the Niners been fortunate enough to maintain the same offensive playbook year to year. Perhaps we could say that about all or most of our offensive personnel. I have been very hard on our OL, but much like the QB, it can't be helpful when there is as much change as SF has endured year after year.

OM9er I don't want a top 15 Center if he constantly loses at the PoA and barks out the wrong blocking scheme leaving everyone scratching their heads as their guy goes untouched right to Alex.

I'm tired of Jailbreak blitzes. It's frustrating to even hear Heitmann's name called in a game cause the announcers in the booth are applauding him for "being one of the bestest Centers in the NFL", you can definitely tell these guys don't watch our games much.

~Ceadder

No, no, no. You two are not getting the message.

Heitmann is the greatest, evar.

He has NO weaknesses.

He could play every position on the OL, all at once, by hisself.

What you see of him getting pushed back at the LOS, or what you thought you saw?

Optical illusion, pure and simple. Didn't really happen, cause MM, MB, Sando, et al. have never mentioned it.

Losing at the point of attack? Heresy.

That Rocky Bernard thing, three years ago? Pure mythology, created by those evil, biased persons on these interwebs who are plotting insurrection and revolt.

The Minnesota game, last offensive play, where he appears to get pushed back? Totally Raye's fault for (a) calling the play in the first place, (b) not giving Heitmann enough time to catch his bref an tie his shoe before he snapped the ball, and (c) didn't really happen cause nobody ever wrote about it.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody's around, does it make any noise? If Heitmann fails to execute on a play, and nobody writes about it, did it really occur? These are complicated philosophical questions we confront, and only Heitmann really knows the answer.

Cause he's the smartestest, bestest, greatesst Center evar. Martz said so.

You two guys are going down in the "biased" book, for sure.

An don't lets ever catch you trying to be reasonable, or writing your own opinions about things, AGAIN!

PS: Don't make me sic the dog on ya.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
MadDog, unquestionably you have been and remain Heitmann's strongest supporter...and you know your football. Here is my hope: with better , true starters, up and down the line, maybe we will get to see the real Heitmann, who now doesn't have to block not just for himself but also for the OGs on either side of him. I once wondered if that might be his problem, and the question remains. Archie manning was a great player who never "succeeded" because he was surrounded by ineptitude...everywhere. Hopefully that is Heitmann's situation, and this yr with staley, poti, AD, Sims, hopefully baas,and hopefully rachal, heitmann's play will be notably better. In any event, like alex, heitmann should truly show us this yr what he has...or doesn't .

Thanks to baalke, heitmann should now be in a position to show us all what kind of player you think he his...believe it or not, i AM pulling for him, because we have to have a true, professional Center on this team. My hope is that out of heit/bas/sny/wal/rag we get not just one, but two quality OLs, which has not happened previously because everyone out there was playing with starting guys who had no business on the field. 2010 could be a memorable yr for us, but we have to have our OL play become one of the best league-wide. With the amazing warhop and foerster gone, we are a better team. With solari/ray, we have the potential to excel far beyond anyone's wildest expectations. I just hope staley/AD/Poti/sims rub off on rachal, heitmann, baas. The other guys may not make the trip, which is as it should be.

If we go nuts this yr and play balls to the walls, we will have baalke to thank, with a huge assist from solari/bigRay.

The only reason I respond to Heitmann threads is because the criticism leveled against him has been largely unfair over the past few years. I am not really a supporter, nor detractor. I simply analyze his play. If someone dogged one of our better players, like Andy Lee, I'd respond the same.

I began the "Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player" years ago because I couldn't believe how ridiculous the comments were toward his play on the board. So, I began to track his play, down by down, just to see if I was wrong. What I saw was someone who was pretty damn good, and yet, people continued to criticize his play...until the coaches, players, scouts, and writers began to write favorable things. The criticism died. Then, after a few months pass, the same crowd began to re-emerge with the same ridiculous arguments that were debunked a few months ago by these same writers. It is like amnesia revisited, over and over again.

The bottom line is that people have a bias against him. I guess it will take a Pro-Bowl invitation to exercise these demons.

It's gonna take a personal trainer from hell

Heitmann once called his own audible...just to hear his own voice.

He once called a prevent defense from the sideline just to see if it would work against the Vikings.

If Jimmy Raye called a dive play up the middle, he'd get blown up and trip up Baas just to point and laugh at him.

One time, he saw his own shadow and declared it GroundRaye Day.

He IS, the most interesting center in the game.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Heitmann once called his own audible...just to hear his own voice.

He once called a prevent defense from the sideline just to see if it would work against the Vikings.

If Jimmy Raye called a dive play up the middle, he'd get blown up and trip up Baas just to point and laugh at him.

One time, he saw his own shadow and declared it GroundRaye Day.

He IS, the most interesting center in the game.

NOW we're talkin!

Cept that "get blown up and trip up Baas" part.

Clearly that didn't happen, cause Sando, MM, MB, Skinny Post, etc. never wrote about it--so it didn't occur.

Originally posted by Godsleftsock:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
MadDog, unquestionably you have been and remain Heitmann's strongest supporter...and you know your football. Here is my hope: with better , true starters, up and down the line, maybe we will get to see the real Heitmann, who now doesn't have to block not just for himself but also for the OGs on either side of him. I once wondered if that might be his problem, and the question remains. Archie manning was a great player who never "succeeded" because he was surrounded by ineptitude...everywhere. Hopefully that is Heitmann's situation, and this yr with staley, poti, AD, Sims, hopefully baas,and hopefully rachal, heitmann's play will be notably better. In any event, like alex, heitmann should truly show us this yr what he has...or doesn't .

Thanks to baalke, heitmann should now be in a position to show us all what kind of player you think he his...believe it or not, i AM pulling for him, because we have to have a true, professional Center on this team. My hope is that out of heit/bas/sny/wal/rag we get not just one, but two quality OLs, which has not happened previously because everyone out there was playing with starting guys who had no business on the field. 2010 could be a memorable yr for us, but we have to have our OL play become one of the best league-wide. With the amazing warhop and foerster gone, we are a better team. With solari/ray, we have the potential to excel far beyond anyone's wildest expectations. I just hope staley/AD/Poti/sims rub off on rachal, heitmann, baas. The other guys may not make the trip, which is as it should be.

If we go nuts this yr and play balls to the walls, we will have baalke to thank, with a huge assist from solari/bigRay.

The only reason I respond to Heitmann threads is because the criticism leveled against him has been largely unfair over the past few years. I am not really a supporter, nor detractor. I simply analyze his play. If someone dogged one of our better players, like Andy Lee, I'd respond the same.

I began the "Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player" years ago because I couldn't believe how ridiculous the comments were toward his play on the board. So, I began to track his play, down by down, just to see if I was wrong. What I saw was someone who was pretty damn good, and yet, people continued to criticize his play...until the coaches, players, scouts, and writers began to write favorable things. The criticism died. Then, after a few months pass, the same crowd began to re-emerge with the same ridiculous arguments that were debunked a few months ago by these same writers. It is like amnesia revisited, over and over again.

The bottom line is that people have a bias against him. I guess it will take a Pro-Bowl invitation to exercise these demons.

It's gonna take a personal trainer from hell

LOL. I missed that the first time around.

I guess if you want to have big, strong demons, you have to make sure they get their exercise.

I wonder if they have to study their demon playbooks, too.

Irregardless of whose side you come down on re: Heitmann, be it maddog or most of the rest of us, i think the bottom line is this. Heitmann has to get better...a lot better to play decent center. If he wants to concentrate on one thing, it would be not ending up in the backfield, tripping up his qB. Not letting his QB become a grease spot would also be high on his list. But that said, i do not believe one of us wants heitmann to do anything else but play great football this yr. Top 15 amongst centers? Well, he has to play a lot better this yr to convince many of us. Here is the thing tho: not one of us wishes heitmann ill. EVeryone wants him to play the kind of center that would make him be considered for all pro status. I doubt he will, but that doesn't make me not wish for him to do so. Why?

Because if all our other guys, staley, AD, poti, hopefully chilo, sims all play lites out, and heitmann plays center in the backfield, well that means another yr of beating all sub .500 teams,(okay, some of them) and then losing to all over .500 teams. In other words, 7-9, 8-8...again. NObody wants that, but even with the talent we now have, if heitmann goes out and lays eggs for us, our qb gets creamed. And we lose. Couldn't be any simpler than that. Heitmanm should have excellent to decent play on both sides of him at OG. I just hope he gets meaner, faster, quicker, stronger, smarter...and i also hope he makes me think of him as a top 5 Center. Because if he does, this team is going places. If we see a redux of last yr, and previous yrs, we are DITW...dead in the water.

A corollary to this is heitmann has to crank it up for the coaches, also. If he can't defend his qb, nor can he move the guy in front of him 6" on 3rd and 6", then he will share in the responsibility of not only a new OC, but also a HC. With the talent now assembled, bigMike HAS to come thru, or a 6-10 or 7-9 season will be his last here. I don't think any 9er fan wants to see us redo everything all over again. So, what we all don't want to hear this yr is heitmann's name being mentioned after ANY play. If you are an OL and you hear your name called all game, chances are you are hearing the sound of a guy about to be benched... or worse.