Manny Lawson skips OTAs in hopes of more money

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by 5280High:
People are assuming he is holding out for some monster contract...which isn't true. Him and his agent have to understand he is a two down linebacker but they probably also understand he is vastly underpaid at $650k this year. Just sign him to a two year extension for like $1-2m per year.

All this trade talk is retarded, he is a starter and should be paid accordingly. He is getting paid backup money right now, just pay him the same as a middle of the pack LB and be done with it.

Yeah, that's what I said.

He's only getting barely half a million.....at that?

He's been paid

7/28/2006: Signed a five-year, $13.9 million contract. The deal includes $4.9 million guaranteed and $5.1 million in incentives. 2009: $915,000, 2010: $625,000, 2011: Free Agent

Originally posted by 49erRider:

I think the coaches feel they don't have to address the OLB position because they have a few players waiting in the wings that they seem to be quite fond of, namely Brooks, AND they had other positions of need that were more pressing and deserved more focus. People love to take facts like this (not addressing the position) to mean the staff thinks so-and-so is a good player. We didn't really address the O-Line for several years, did that mean the staff thought the guys on the line were good? Obviously not.

A few? Who besides Brooks? The host of undrafted free agents who haven't played a snap in the NFL?

We have 5 OLBs with game experience... that's if you want to include Briggs who has 2 tackles to his name.

Breakdown of OLBs with game experience production per game. Career totals in parenthesis. Stats from NFL.com.

LaBoy has .35 sacks per game (23.5) and 2 tackles per game (136).

Haralson has .28 sacks per game (15.5) and 2.4 tackles per game (130).

Brooks has .3 sacks per game (8) and 2.1 tackles per game (58).

Lawson has .25 sacks per game (12) and 3.8 tackles per game (181).

As a comparison:

Ware has .81 sacks per game (64.5) and 4.4 tackles per game (354).

Merriman has .76 sacks per game (43.5) and 3.9 tackles per game (225).

Woodley has .66 sacks per game (29) and 3.1 tackles per game (136).

For fun:

Willis has .19 sacks per game (9) and 9.7 tackles per game (467).

So, while I realize that this proves absolutely nothing (anybody know where to find number of snaps played?), I think it's fun to compare the production of players and some of it is interesting. Obviously, none of our OLBs have proven to be anything but mediocre to poor rushing the passer when compared to players considered to be dominant pass rushers. I also think it's interesting that there appears to be little disparity among our OLBs when it comes to producing sacks.

Also, we did address the offensive line. In the five seasons before this draft we have drafted one tackle in the first round, two guards in the second round, a guard/tackle in the third round, a center in the fourth round, and we have signed one top free agent tackle and one hall of fame guard. Just because players don't always work out does not mean the team has not attempted to address a position. Your example is also ironic because the offensive line was obviously considered a position of need by the staff as reflected in our first round selections. Yet, not one OLB was drafted.

Lastly:

Originally posted by Barrows:
On Friday, I asked Mike Singletary about free-agent linebacker Adalius Thomas, someone the 49ers were very interested in during free agency three years ago. Singletary, who coached Thomas in Baltimore, acknowledged that past interest but said he was content with the OLBs the 49ers have on the roster right now.

link

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by crzy:
Why do fans always turn against players who are just doing what's best for them?

Same thing with all the "f**k you Crabtree" hater posts when he held out.

I guess because both players in question haven't proven anything.

Humm... Crabs made some plays last year with only a handful of games; whereas Lawson is almost in the A Smith class of under-performers, or nearly non-performers, for what they were drafted to do.

Oops.. certainly not a Smith bashing, fer freakin sure..

But, CrabT did more than Lawson did in his first two years.. no comparison in my book...

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by 5280High:
People are assuming he is holding out for some monster contract...which isn't true. Him and his agent have to understand he is a two down linebacker but they probably also understand he is vastly underpaid at $650k this year. Just sign him to a two year extension for like $1-2m per year.

All this trade talk is retarded, he is a starter and should be paid accordingly. He is getting paid backup money right now, just pay him the same as a middle of the pack LB and be done with it.

Yeah, that's what I said.

He's only getting barely half a million.....at that?

He's been paid

7/28/2006: Signed a five-year, $13.9 million contract. The deal includes $4.9 million guaranteed and $5.1 million in incentives. 2009: $915,000, 2010: $625,000, 2011: Free Agent

It's not what you were paid.. it's what you are paid. NFL careers are short, you gotta make what you can while you can. His FMV is higher than $650k so it's in his best interest to try and get a decent extension that pays him on par with a normal starter.

For example, when I joined my firm I got a nice signing bonus then subsequently a promotion bonus... but due to the economy the raises have been frozen for the past two years. I average 65-70 hours a week, do you think I care about the money the firm already gave me in bonuses? No, I wanna be paid what I feel I should be making in the open market and is why I'm leaving the firm. This happens all the time and the hate for Manny, who has been an amazing teammate and never been in any trouble, is immature and unfounded.

Originally posted by Ohio49er:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

Originally posted by Ohio49er:

Originally posted by BenQ:
so much promise

All "promise" means is you haven't done it yet.

If the 49ers can survive losing Chike Okefor, Julian Peterson and Andre Carter---ALL of whom were better players than Manny Lawson, they can survive losing him. 12 sacks in four seasons? For a starting linebacker in a 3-4 defense?

Are you freaking kidding me? Is this guy on dope or dog food?

At $600,000 the dude is already stealing money. Don't back up the Brink's truck for a guy who hasn't proven jack.

What exactly do you mean by survive? Cuz a couple 2-14, 4-12 seasons isn't "surviving" in my book. Manny does a lot of things no one really notices, and it doesnt show up on the stat sheet. His outside containment on running plays makes our run defense what it is. He plays with great lateral quickness, can cover TE's and Rb's, and is a great run stopper in general.

and its fkn OTA's chill out.

He does a lot of things no one really notices and it doesn't show up on the stat sheet? Really? Like what? Does he park cars, sell popcorn, make sure there's plenty of Charmin stocked in the restrooms and puts down the chalk lines too?

That's agent talk. How many Pro Bowls has he made? How many tackles, assists, knockdowns and sacks does he have. This guy was drafed to rush the passer. He got half his career sacks while playing a hybrid DE/OLB position.

Pardon me if I'm not as dazzled as you are by Manny Lawson. He's a solid player, but irreplaceable? Hardly.

Nothing wrong with wanting more money. We all like money, but Lawson is NOT the top priority for the Niners when it comes to resigning players. He's got a contract that was negotiated and signed. Has he outplayed it? I don't think so. Play now and get paid later.

He can play or he can sit. This isn't the way to get what he wants because he feels unloved.

Im not dazzled, but why cant you accept that not everything is based around how many sacks he has had?

And im not saying julius peppers money, but he is still a solid linebacker that we draftred 1st round, so instead of waiting in free agency for someone of equal value that we are gonna get at the same price, just re-sign him for something better than his rookie contract?

I dont know why people are making this bigger than what it is. If we lost him, we would have to go find someone to replace him, at most likely the exact same price, and he'll have to learn the system etc. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by 5280High:
People are assuming he is holding out for some monster contract...which isn't true. Him and his agent have to understand he is a two down linebacker but they probably also understand he is vastly underpaid at $650k this year. Just sign him to a two year extension for like $1-2m per year.

All this trade talk is retarded, he is a starter and should be paid accordingly. He is getting paid backup money right now, just pay him the same as a middle of the pack LB and be done with it.

Yeah, that's what I said.

He's only getting barely half a million.....at that?

He's been paid

7/28/2006: Signed a five-year, $13.9 million contract. The deal includes $4.9 million guaranteed and $5.1 million in incentives. 2009: $915,000, 2010: $625,000, 2011: Free Agent

It's not what you were paid.. it's what you are paid. NFL careers are short, you gotta make what you can while you can. His FMV is higher than $650k so it's in his best interest to try and get a decent extension that pays him on par with a normal starter.

For example, when I joined my firm I got a nice signing bonus then subsequently a promotion bonus... but due to the economy the raises have been frozen for the past two years. I average 65-70 hours a week, do you think I care about the money the firm already gave me in bonuses? No, I wanna be paid what I feel I should be making in the open market and is why I'm leaving the firm. This happens all the time and the hate for Manny, who has been an amazing teammate and never been in any trouble, is immature and unfounded.

Did you sign a contract saying you would make X amount of dollars over a 5 year span? We front loaded his contract like we just did with Willis. I didn't hear him complaining when he got the other 4.3 million the past 4 years.

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

I dont know why people are making this bigger than what it is. If we lost him, we would have to go find someone to replace him, at most likely the exact same price, and he'll have to learn the system etc. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Bingo.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by 5280High:
People are assuming he is holding out for some monster contract...which isn't true. Him and his agent have to understand he is a two down linebacker but they probably also understand he is vastly underpaid at $650k this year. Just sign him to a two year extension for like $1-2m per year.

All this trade talk is retarded, he is a starter and should be paid accordingly. He is getting paid backup money right now, just pay him the same as a middle of the pack LB and be done with it.

Yeah, that's what I said.

He's only getting barely half a million.....at that?

He's been paid

7/28/2006: Signed a five-year, $13.9 million contract. The deal includes $4.9 million guaranteed and $5.1 million in incentives. 2009: $915,000, 2010: $625,000, 2011: Free Agent

It's not what you were paid.. it's what you are paid. NFL careers are short, you gotta make what you can while you can. His FMV is higher than $650k so it's in his best interest to try and get a decent extension that pays him on par with a normal starter.

For example, when I joined my firm I got a nice signing bonus then subsequently a promotion bonus... but due to the economy the raises have been frozen for the past two years. I average 65-70 hours a week, do you think I care about the money the firm already gave me in bonuses? No, I wanna be paid what I feel I should be making in the open market and is why I'm leaving the firm. This happens all the time and the hate for Manny, who has been an amazing teammate and never been in any trouble, is immature and unfounded.

Did you sign a contract saying you would make X amount of dollars over a 5 year span? We front loaded his contract like we just did with Willis. I didn't hear him complaining when he got the other 4.3 million the past 4 years.

In the business world, signing bonuses and promotion bonuses is the same as front-loading your employment agreement/contract. That's not really the point, and besides I'm not in danger of career threatening injuries week in and week out.

The point is that once his current contract expires, some other team will pay him $2m+ a year. He's gotta weigh the risk of playing underpaid and suffering an injury with the benefit of sitting these voluntary camps out in hopes of getting an extension right now. I'm all for it... what did we pay Brandon Jones again? What has he done? The simple fact is Manny does actually produce so pay him accordingly and take the worry out of his mind. I dont sign his paycheck so I could care less if he wants more money, make him happy and lets keep our defense badass with quality depth.

Just give him a fair contract with incentives. More Sacks=$

Originally posted by jreff22:
I didn't hear him complaining.

Should have stopped the sentence here. He hasn't said anything yet.

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by 5280High:
People are assuming he is holding out for some monster contract...which isn't true. Him and his agent have to understand he is a two down linebacker but they probably also understand he is vastly underpaid at $650k this year. Just sign him to a two year extension for like $1-2m per year.

All this trade talk is retarded, he is a starter and should be paid accordingly. He is getting paid backup money right now, just pay him the same as a middle of the pack LB and be done with it.

Yeah, that's what I said.

He's only getting barely half a million.....at that?

He's been paid

7/28/2006: Signed a five-year, $13.9 million contract. The deal includes $4.9 million guaranteed and $5.1 million in incentives. 2009: $915,000, 2010: $625,000, 2011: Free Agent

It's not what you were paid.. it's what you are paid. NFL careers are short, you gotta make what you can while you can. His FMV is higher than $650k so it's in his best interest to try and get a decent extension that pays him on par with a normal starter.

For example, when I joined my firm I got a nice signing bonus then subsequently a promotion bonus... but due to the economy the raises have been frozen for the past two years. I average 65-70 hours a week, do you think I care about the money the firm already gave me in bonuses? No, I wanna be paid what I feel I should be making in the open market and is why I'm leaving the firm. This happens all the time and the hate for Manny, who has been an amazing teammate and never been in any trouble, is immature and unfounded.

Did you sign a contract saying you would make X amount of dollars over a 5 year span? We front loaded his contract like we just did with Willis. I didn't hear him complaining when he got the other 4.3 million the past 4 years.

In the business world, signing bonuses and promotion bonuses is the same as front-loading your employment agreement/contract. That's not really the point, and besides I'm not in danger of career threatening injuries week in and week out.

The point is that once his current contract expires, some other team will pay him $2m+ a year. He's gotta weigh the risk of playing underpaid and suffering an injury with the benefit of sitting these voluntary camps out in hopes of getting an extension right now. I'm all for it... what did we pay Brandon Jones again? What has he done? The simple fact is Manny does actually produce so pay him accordingly and take the worry out of his mind. I dont sign his paycheck so I could care less if he wants more money, make him happy and lets keep our defense badass with quality depth.

How is it not the point...its the contract he agreed to. If the first year of his contract was for $600,000 and this year he made 2 million what really is the difference? If history shows us anything it is that management will not cave for a contract demand. If he wants a new contract he needs to perform on the field, that's the business world of the NFL. Throwing money at a guy so he comes in and practices is retarded and it opens you up for future problems. Dashon is up for an extension and he makes less money then Manny does...I bet his ass shows up for practice.

Originally posted by Bali-Niner:

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by crzy:
Why do fans always turn against players who are just doing what's best for them?

Same thing with all the "f**k you Crabtree" hater posts when he held out.

I guess because both players in question haven't proven anything.

Humm... Crabs made some plays last year with only a handful of games; whereas Lawson is almost in the A Smith class of under-performers, or nearly non-performers, for what they were drafted to do.

Oops.. certainly not a Smith bashing, fer freakin sure..

But, CrabT did more than Lawson did in his first two years.. no comparison in my book...

Im sorry I dont think you understood what I meant. Crabs situation happened before he played. so he hadnt proven anything yet...

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by jreff22:
I didn't hear him complaining.

Should have stopped the sentence here. He hasn't said anything yet.

Actions speak louder then words and so far he's been MIA.

Originally posted by jreff22:


How is it not the point...its the contract he agreed to. If the first year of his contract was for $600,000 and this year he made 2 million what really is the difference? If history shows us anything it is that management will not cave for a contract demand. If he wants a new contract he needs to perform on the field, that's the business world of the NFL. Throwing money at a guy so he comes in and practices is retarded and it opens you up for future problems. Dashon is up for an extension and he makes less money then Manny does...I bet his ass shows up for practice.

Extend both for what they are worth, problem solved! Paying a guy what he is worth isnt "throwing money" at a player. If we gave him some absurd contract then I would agree with you, just extend him for the FMV of an average starting LB. Listen to any pro ball player talk about contracts and they all say the same line "gotta make what you can when you can." Until we find out the deal with him and his contract "demands" if there are any, this is pointless. If it turns out he wants some absurd contract then yeah Ill agree with you but if he just wants to be paid more than a backup, I support Manny hes a good guy and deserves it.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Actions speak louder then words and so far he's been MIA.

I understand your point, but you do not know why he has not been attending. So far all we have is rumor.

Why get bent out of shape over a rumor?