Making Changes: A Quarterback Change Will Not Help us.

Nice post OTC. I agree

Originally posted by Sinsation:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

The overall intelligence level and inability to think things through by some here is utterly disturbing to say the least.

This board is incredibly frustrating.

thats why i rarely post, i just read. trying to talk to some of the posters on here is like talking to a wall...you're pissed cuz the wall is stupid, but then u realize you're the idiot talking to a wall...

gotta agree with you two.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by SJniner7:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I'm fine with Alex as starter for QB next season. Nate Davis is not starter material at this point and probably never will be. But he looks good against 4th stringers in Preseason. Shaun Hill has proven arm strength limitations. A rookie will have a huge and steep learning curve.

Face it. Like him or not. Alex WILL BE OUR STARTER in 2010.

While it is probably our best option, we are still entitled to not like it one bit. His mediocrity will eventually limit this team if all other areas improve. While I would never suggest that he is the sole source of the problem, his in abiliity to make plays when it really matters will probably cost us some games sometime in 2010. Here is to hoping that our defense improves and our special teams becomes decent in 2010!

1) Have you not seen improvement in his game this year?

2) If he has the same offensive coordinator for 2 years in a row and the same system for 2 years in a row for the first time in his career why would it not be reasonable to assume he can continue to improve more?

Yeah I mean he has shown an improvement from 2006 even, after not playing for 2 years. He didn't do much to convince me today, but he didn't do anything to really upset me either aside from missing a few throws. I think after 2 years of being in the same system, and we can throw in a few wrinkles to our vanilla plays, we'll be able to do better offensively. Once a QB knows a system that really helps them out. I mean he has 5 more TDs than picks, and he has a QB rating of 80, which isn't great, but with all the changes we've made and the improvisation it's not that bad either IMO. I mean I definitely think we can win with him. Maybe not because of him, but with him sure.

If you're saying that there isn't a better option out there at QB, that's one thing.

It's painfully clear to me that if our QB play this season was just A LITTLE better, we'd have won a few more games. Conservative playcalling definitely had something to do with it.

I will agree that the PR/KR game hurt us, but to say that was the reason we didn't make the playoffs is a stretch. It's an even further stretch to say that Smith has played well enough to get us into the playoffs when his biggest opportunity (last week @ Philly) to give us a true chance ended with his worst performance of the season.

Great post as usual. This reminds of the dummies complaining about Smith's batted balls. They blame Smith and not the oline, the line is collapsing before their eyes, OUR oline is not chop blocking, and they still blame everything on Smith. Cracks me up.

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
17 straight 3rd downs without a conversion...At what point, does this become the QB's fault as well? Especially, when he is supposed to be so intelligent, and can also make plays with his legs.

This team is a QB/RT/FS away from being a playoff team, and possibly even a contender.

Dude, how many times have you seen the receivers stop a yard short of the marker on 3rd downs. Come on man, converting third downs is an OC responsibility.

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

The overall intelligence level and inability to think things through by some here is utterly disturbing to say the least.

This board is incredibly frustrating.

I'm glad he's improved his hard count, and 15 yard seam route to VD.

His pocket presence is still not where it should be, his deep ball is worse than ever, he still lacks "touch" by throwing a bullet at his RB standing 3 yards away, and wide open.

Face it, VD has bailed him out on many TD throws, few TE's/WR's, can run that seam route the way he does, make the catch over the shoulder, while getting hit, and still hold on. The Crabtree TD, both of em were tough catches, and so was Gore's TD.

He doesn't make it easy for his receivers at all, complain about the drops, but then you also have to complain about the placement of some of those passes.

If we want to compare, let's do it with Rogers, same s**tty OL, if not worse, and still makes plays. The Packers have 41 dropped passes as a team, while the Niners only have 30 (13 w/Hill)...No to mention the huge difference when both QB's are under pressure, Alex sits at 48 percent, while Rodgers 58 percent passing completion - 7 TD's 1 INT, while still getting sacked 48 times, compared to Alex's 18.

We took the wrong QB, it's blatantly obvious how much better Rodgers is, and it's not even by a little, there is not debate at all, that's sad.

Rodgers
Smith

I hope that was "intelligent" enough.
That was from the other thread Smith thread...because we need like 8 of them.

I believe that with a RT/LG/Safety/Pass rusher, this team can be a good playoff team (even if only 3 of those would happen), no doubt about it. With a solid QB, this team can be SB contender.

Actually, that was totally stupid. How can ANYONE with half a brain attempt to compare the careers of Rodgers and Smith? Rodgers has had nothing but consistency at offense and coaches, Smith has had nothing but inconsistency at offense and coaches.

To not take that into account is to be something close to a liar. Didn't your momma teach you not to lie?

Man, truly the Zone runs rampant with disregard for reality. Nobody even takes into account the nuances of the game and the real factors for a teams struggles. They complain and make the stupidest suggestions, such as getting rid of the coaching staff after one year, replacing Raye when consistency at OC has been one of our biggest issues, replacing Smith when consistency at QB has been one of our biggest issues, etc.

Get over it and accept the reality of Smith as next years starter.

Originally posted by BobS:
Great idea, let's stick with a QB who averages 6.0 yards an attempt, which puts him in the bottom 5. Also we need to stick with a GM that no one else would want, and a HC that is nothing more than a motivational speaker who gets out coached badly every Sunday. Better keep the OC who has nothing but a mediocre resume at best, because sticking with Raye will give us continuity in our strive to be considered average. The limit for this current mess is 8-8 at best.

I guess you better pick a new favorite team than huh buddy.

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
17 straight 3rd downs without a conversion...At what point, does this become the QB's fault as well? Especially, when he is supposed to be so intelligent, and can also make plays with his legs.

This team is a QB/RT/FS away from being a playoff team, and possibly even a contender.

You have no idea what your talking about, do you? You just say what everyone else says on here. It's like follow the leader. My thoughts are we need a game changing, play making defender, whether that be an OLB or a DB. We also need to work on our interior offensive line, LG and RG. I've seen numerous times where pressure is coming right up the middle and our QB can't step up into the pocket. Yes right tackle maybe a need but it's not as glaring as the need for offensive gaurds. Maybe there is nothing really wrong with our OL personel, maybe it's coaching.

Originally posted by maxsmart:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by BobS:
Great idea, let's stick with . . . a GM that no one else would want, and . . . . better keep the OC who has nothing but a mediocre resume at best, because sticking with Raye will give us continuity in our strive to be considered average. The limit for this current mess is 8-8 at best.

Present a proposition that solves our problems for next year. Lay out a plan, then.

Plan (if available)
1. Get an excellent OC (Raye is bad, why wait until 2011 to get a good offense?)
2. Get an excellent GM (Keep McC as head of scouting, but add great football brain)
= problem solved

Wow, what a solution, Get An Excellent OC. Name us one that might be interested. You really want to get into yet another season with a new system. You don´t think its a better idea to keep Raye for 1 year and groom Mike Johnson into the role of OC in 2011?

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Changing the QB going into 2010 will absolutely not fix this team, nor will it whatsoever help this team reach the playoffs next year. We will continue to suck until we address much higher priorities that are contributing to this team's failure.

If we can pass for 300+ yards and 2 TDs or 250+ yards and 3 TDs and still lose, QB is not the problem.

Examples:
Carson Palmer vs. SD -- 27/40 for 314, 2 TDs, 1 INT -- 27-24 Loss to SD
Ben Roethlisberger vs. OAK -- 18/24 for 278, 2 TDs, 1 INT -- 27-24 Loss to OAK

People are whining and crying over a season that has been lost due to, really, simply a lack of a kick/punt returner than can protect the ball. Three losses can just about entirely be attributed to that. Smith's play has been plenty good enough to get us into the playoffs, but unfortunately other areas of the team have let us down.

I am not concerned about QB whatsoever, because we have a contingency plan already in place.

1. Smith plays out this year and next. With success, he is extended, we've got a QB.
2. If unsuccessful, Smith walks via Free Agency, Nate Davis replaces him and we draft insurance for Nate.

What am I more worried about? Getting some dang protection for ANY QB WE HAVE so they don't have to spend all day on their back. Smith is lucky he's been able to avoid as many sacks as he has lately. A less mobile QB would be getting plastered out there. I can't tell you how many times I've seen defensive linemen literally hanging on Smith's back as he's trying to drop back and pass.

This board is hilarious. They say they want to win now, yet in absolute tunnel-vision, they think replacing the QB will somehow immediately get us into the playoffs. Some individuals are calling for us to trade our first rounders for a quarterback -- awesome -- then we can use our 6 remaining picks (or less, depending on the trade) to get mediocre-to-garbage level players, almost certainly not enough to fill our needs, as we continue towards another season of suckage.

The overall intelligence level and inability to think things through by some here is utterly disturbing to say the least.

If guys like Dilfer, Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, and Jim McMahon can win Super Bowls, and if guys like Rex Grossman, Kerry Collins, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, and Chris Chandler can get their teams to the Super Bowl... I have zero doubts that Smith, if he can grow in his first off-season marked by continuity in his entire history of the league, could very well possibly do the same.

This board is incredibly frustrating. As fans, all we can hope for is for our team to be successful. I'd love it if Alex can wrap up this year with 20+ TDs (doing so in only 9 starts), giving us a 20+ TD passer for the first time since Jeff Garcia in 2002 (Rattay never had more than 10 in a season). If he can't do anything next year, especially with some continuity, he won't be back and those who hate him can gladly see him go. Then the "draft a QB" and "start Nate Davis" crowd can both be appeased... Win-win scenario for all 49er fans.

Until then, we can only let things play out. In the words of Singletary, "Just watch."

You are a brave man OTC for posting this in Niner Talk.

I liked this post. Alot of people are bashing smith here in response but I don't think it was the intent of this post to "praise" smith. On the Clock is essentially saying that smith is "good enough". Which isn't exactly calling him the franchise QB. I doubt that On The Clock would argue if Smith were replaced by a HOF calibur guy. I am in agreement about there being plenty of other areas to adress especially punt returning. This is just dreadful. It turns my stomach to watch the rotation of disasters fielding punts for this team since Rossum was let go. We can't even field half of the punts much less get a return. I have not looked at the stats and I don't know if anyone tracks "unfielded punts"; but I'd wager a bar tab that if you called every yard the ball travelled backwards after hitting the ground as negative punt return yardage due to the inability of the returner to catch the ball then we probably have negative punt return yards on the season. this is tremendous when you consider how close we were in most of our games and how much field position helps/hurts. I watched Mike Spurlock run one back against the Saints yesterday and I almost puked. I've supported Arnaz Battle for a long time. But it is mind boggling to me that we keep guys like him and MRob over guys like spurlock and rossum who could break a game in the return arena. P/R needs to be a priority in the offseason.

Originally posted by English:
Good, OTC. Everything starts with the lines

The OL is average, including Staley. He should be shifted to RT, LT should be our first draft pick. One of the guards must be replaced (probably Baas) in free agency or in the draft. A third starter may make it difficult to have cohesion next year, but should probably me management's goal anyway.

Alex Smith is still questionable. Pulling up at the goal line rather than running in was wacky. He threw one pass batted down that seemed aimed at the arm in the air. Keep him the starter in 2010. If he doesn't improve, have Nate groomed and ready (at least to compete for QB) for 2011.

But no quarterback is going to get us more than two TDs a game with that OL.

Originally posted by BobS:
Alex has next to no pocket presence, as soon has he feels heat he rolls to his right and usually throws the ball out of bounds. The pass blocking of the line is not as horrible as the likes of Smith and Hill make it seem, their run blocking is atrocious.
Alex is way too slow going through his reads, he threw way too many check downs today against the Lions. He is also inaccurate even his completed passes end up in places where receivers cannot catch the ball in stride. I saw 2 screen passes today that were caught, thrown behind the receivers. He makes bad throws and mental errors that a High School Qb should not make. I was happy he got his second chance as he is much better than Shaun Hill, but I have seen enough, time for the 49ers to try someone else.

You state the obvious but fail to look for the reason behind it.

49er opponents have learned how to defend against them: they send an extra pass rusher into the middle to keep Heitmann occupied and then overload the rest of the left side, which allows the rush to get through, forcing Smith to roll right. They then double the receivers on the right side, leaving no options open to throw to, hence, the throw aways.

It isn't rocket science but the combination of poor blocking technique and inexperienced receivers allows it to be very effective.

Originally posted by crzy:
The opening post completely ignores the current progression of the NFL toward high-powered passing offenses. The days of Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon winning ANYTHING in this league are over.

The only quarterback in playoff contention with a sub 90 QB rating on the year is Carson Palmer, and he's a guy who has had multiple years of throwing for more than 4000 yards, so his down year statistically is mostly an anomaly.

The only team with an elite quarterback who is NOT currently in playoff contention is the Texans with Matt Schaub, and they're basically a few choked games away from being a playoff team.

You're only as good as your quarterback in this league, and as long as Alex Smith is here, we're a team that's not good enough to make the playoffs.

Even with the 2000 Ravens defense, Alex Smith would not succeed.

The question is, "Which QB can the Niners get in 2010 that will be guaranteed to be better than Smith?" The second question, "Won't it be better for the team to use its resources on other positions like the OL?"