Making Changes: A Quarterback Change Will Not Help us.

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by calinig4life:
better qb play wouldn't solve all the problems but your wrong it will & would've help. with all the close games they had this season you mean to tell me better qb play wouldn't have helped. in some of the games we lost, we were winning most of the game or going back & forth(colts, titians vikings). while a smith did bring us back, he wasn't clutch enough to get us the win(packers & texans). a better qb most likely wouldn't have let us loose to the seachickens WITH the PLAYOFFS on the line. h3!! like i said before even in the philly game, they weren't playin their best & the D was playing pretty good. better qb play could have snuck it out. look at colts(before they lost), saints(before they lost too) & good teams they play the way we have this year BUT THEIR qbs' got it done when it matters most. so i disagree with you, i think it will help. HOPEFULLY time & experience will help with a. smith next year in the clutch & being a leader when the offense needs him most. GO NINERS!!!! in 2010.

Last year the Packers lost seven of their games by four points or less. What did that say about Aaron Rodgers?

it says that better qb play would have got them w's that instead got them l's. that's my point with this years team. wheather smith or hill or the team problems, the team kept it close but without a clutch qb we couldn't get the w.

Originally posted by Sinsation:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

The overall intelligence level and inability to think things through by some here is utterly disturbing to say the least.

This board is incredibly frustrating.

thats why i rarely post, i just read. trying to talk to some of the posters on here is like talking to a wall...you're pissed cuz the wall is stupid, but then u realize you're the idiot talking to a wall...

Yes Grasshopper. You have observed well.

OTC, the logic you always present on this otherwise muddled board never ceases to impress me.

O-Line, O-Line, O-Line!! I watched the game live today and was SHOCKED at how quickly the Detroit Lions D-Line was getting through to pressure Alex. The 4th and 1 conversion attempt was pitiful. Hell, the first play of the game was a microcosm of our season: an untouched edge rusher sack. 1st pick - OT; 2nd pick - OT/OG; then we can go out and get skill players in subsequent rounds. Sure, it's not sexy, but damnit we need a line to allow plays to develop and Gore to run better to set up those passing plays!

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
17 straight 3rd downs without a conversion...At what point, does this become the QB's fault as well? Especially, when he is supposed to be so intelligent, and can also make plays with his legs.

This team is a QB/RT/FS away from being a playoff team, and possibly even a contender.

I'd analyze each and every 3rd down to answer that. Were they run or pass plays? Was Smith being sacked? Did players drop passes?

Look at those things to evaluate how much Alex has had to do with that.

Another major issue is the role of the receivers:

Are the running the routes correctly?

Did they run it deep enough?

Did the receivers read the defense in the same way as the QB?

I could list another four or five variables that are all related to receivers that MUST be fulfilled before the QB even comes into play.

The biggest problem with the board is that many posters only watch the ball - they never see what is happening off the TV screen.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by calinig4life:
better qb play wouldn't solve all the problems but your wrong it will & would've help. with all the close games they had this season you mean to tell me better qb play wouldn't have helped. in some of the games we lost, we were winning most of the game or going back & forth(colts, titians vikings). while a smith did bring us back, he wasn't clutch enough to get us the win(packers & texans). a better qb most likely wouldn't have let us loose to the seachickens WITH the PLAYOFFS on the line. h3!! like i said before even in the philly game, they weren't playin their best & the D was playing pretty good. better qb play could have snuck it out. look at colts(before they lost), saints(before they lost too) & good teams they play the way we have this year BUT THEIR qbs' got it done when it matters most. so i disagree with you, i think it will help. HOPEFULLY time & experience will help with a. smith next year in the clutch & being a leader when the offense needs him most. GO NINERS!!!! in 2010.

Simply switching our QB (especially considering there are no viable options out there) will neither improve next year's playoff hopes, nor help our most glaring offensive issues along the line, our defensive issue in pass defense/rush, and our return game.

i didn't say swithching qbs' would solve the problem, i said it would help. having a qb that can handle the heat & show up in big games could have gotten us more w's which would have gotten us in the playoffs this year. we don't have all around problems just certain areas & the team has had opportunity but not having a clutch qb has hurt them the most. IMO

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Changing the QB going into 2010 will absolutely not fix this team, nor will it whatsoever help this team reach the playoffs next year. We will continue to suck until we address much higher priorities that are contributing to this team's failure.

If we can pass for 300+ yards and 2 TDs or 250+ yards and 3 TDs and still lose, QB is not the problem.

Examples:
Carson Palmer vs. SD -- 27/40 for 314, 2 TDs, 1 INT -- 27-24 Loss to SD
Ben Roethlisberger vs. OAK -- 18/24 for 278, 2 TDs, 1 INT -- 27-24 Loss to OAK

People are whining and crying over a season that has been lost due to, really, simply a lack of a kick/punt returner than can protect the ball. Three losses can just about entirely be attributed to that. Smith's play has been plenty good enough to get us into the playoffs, but unfortunately other areas of the team have let us down.

I am not concerned about QB whatsoever, because we have a contingency plan already in place.

1. Smith plays out this year and next. With success, he is extended, we've got a QB.
2. If unsuccessful, Smith walks via Free Agency, Nate Davis replaces him and we draft insurance for Nate.

What am I more worried about? Getting some dang protection for ANY QB WE HAVE so they don't have to spend all day on their back. Smith is lucky he's been able to avoid as many sacks as he has lately. A less mobile QB would be getting plastered out there. I can't tell you how many times I've seen defensive linemen literally hanging on Smith's back as he's trying to drop back and pass.

This board is hilarious. They say they want to win now, yet in absolute tunnel-vision, they think replacing the QB will somehow immediately get us into the playoffs. Some individuals are calling for us to trade our first rounders for a quarterback -- awesome -- then we can use our 6 remaining picks (or less, depending on the trade) to get mediocre-to-garbage level players, almost certainly not enough to fill our needs, as we continue towards another season of suckage.

The overall intelligence level and inability to think things through by some here is utterly disturbing to say the least.

If guys like Dilfer, Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, and Jim McMahon can win Super Bowls, and if guys like Rex Grossman, Kerry Collins, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, and Chris Chandler can get their teams to the Super Bowl... I have zero doubts that Smith, if he can grow in his first off-season marked by continuity in his entire history of the league, could very well possibly do the same.

This board is incredibly frustrating. As fans, all we can hope for is for our team to be successful. I'd love it if Alex can wrap up this year with 20+ TDs (doing so in only 9 starts), giving us a 20+ TD passer for the first time since Jeff Garcia in 2002 (Rattay never had more than 10 in a season). If he can't do anything next year, especially with some continuity, he won't be back and those who hate him can gladly see him go. Then the "draft a QB" and "start Nate Davis" crowd can both be appeased... Win-win scenario for all 49er fans.

Until then, we can only let things play out. In the words of Singletary, "Just watch."

very well put. i couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
OTC, the logic you always present on this otherwise muddled board never ceases to impress me.

O-Line, O-Line, O-Line!! I watched the game live today and was SHOCKED at how quickly the Detroit Lions D-Line was getting through to pressure Alex. The 4th and 1 conversion attempt was pitiful. Hell, the first play of the game was a microcosm of our season: an untouched edge rusher sack. 1st pick - OT; 2nd pick - OT/OG; then we can go out and get skill players in subsequent rounds. Sure, it's not sexy, but damnit we need a line to allow plays to develop and Gore to run better to set up those passing plays!

OTC is right on this issue. Even if all our problems could be fixed by obtaining an upgrade at QB (which they won't), there is no suitable upgrade to be had. So the arguments against him are moot.

Now, given that there is no savior (if we needed one) QB to be had, it is best to not squander the opportunity to fix the glaring weakness's which are certainly not disputable weaknesses:

OL
Pass defense.
Kick/punt return.

Simply put...we will get much much more long term bang for the buck investing in upgrading those weaknesses this year than we would on investing in any QB that is available in the draft this year. Those area's, if shored up this year, will produce larger returns, over a longer term, for a cheaper price....than any QB option in the draft this year.

Agreed.

No QB can play with this Oline

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
OTC, the logic you always present on this otherwise muddled board never ceases to impress me.

O-Line, O-Line, O-Line!! I watched the game live today and was SHOCKED at how quickly the Detroit Lions D-Line was getting through to pressure Alex. The 4th and 1 conversion attempt was pitiful. Hell, the first play of the game was a microcosm of our season: an untouched edge rusher sack. 1st pick - OT; 2nd pick - OT/OG; then we can go out and get skill players in subsequent rounds. Sure, it's not sexy, but damnit we need a line to allow plays to develop and Gore to run better to set up those passing plays!

OTC is right on this issue. Even if all our problems could be fixed by obtaining an upgrade at QB (which they won't), there is no suitable upgrade to be had. So the arguments against him are moot.

Now, given that there is no savior (if we needed one) QB to be had, it is best to not squander the opportunity to fix the glaring weakness's which are certainly not disputable weaknesses:

OL
Pass defense.
Kick/punt return.

Simply put...we will get much much more long term bang for the buck investing in upgrading those weaknesses this year than we would on investing in any QB that is available in the draft this year. Those area's, if shored up this year, will produce larger returns, over a longer term, for a cheaper price....than any QB option in the draft this year.

Exactly. If Smith does fail next year, at least we can *hopefully* be assured that there's a stable line in front of the QB in 2011 and there are several pieces in place for him to succeed.

-9fA

Originally posted by calinig4life:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by calinig4life:
better qb play wouldn't solve all the problems but your wrong it will & would've help. with all the close games they had this season you mean to tell me better qb play wouldn't have helped. in some of the games we lost, we were winning most of the game or going back & forth(colts, titians vikings). while a smith did bring us back, he wasn't clutch enough to get us the win(packers & texans). a better qb most likely wouldn't have let us loose to the seachickens WITH the PLAYOFFS on the line. h3!! like i said before even in the philly game, they weren't playin their best & the D was playing pretty good. better qb play could have snuck it out. look at colts(before they lost), saints(before they lost too) & good teams they play the way we have this year BUT THEIR qbs' got it done when it matters most. so i disagree with you, i think it will help. HOPEFULLY time & experience will help with a. smith next year in the clutch & being a leader when the offense needs him most. GO NINERS!!!! in 2010.

Simply switching our QB (especially considering there are no viable options out there) will neither improve next year's playoff hopes, nor help our most glaring offensive issues along the line, our defensive issue in pass defense/rush, and our return game.

i didn't say swithching qbs' would solve the problem, i said it would help. having a qb that can handle the heat & show up in big games could have gotten us more w's which would have gotten us in the playoffs this year. we don't have all around problems just certain areas & the team has had opportunity but not having a clutch qb has hurt them the most. IMO

20 teams in the league, including the 49ers, are looking for that QB you describe. Do you have a plan to outfox all of the others to get the guy we want?

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
OTC, the logic you always present on this otherwise muddled board never ceases to impress me.

O-Line, O-Line, O-Line!! I watched the game live today and was SHOCKED at how quickly the Detroit Lions D-Line was getting through to pressure Alex. The 4th and 1 conversion attempt was pitiful. Hell, the first play of the game was a microcosm of our season: an untouched edge rusher sack. 1st pick - OT; 2nd pick - OT/OG; then we can go out and get skill players in subsequent rounds. Sure, it's not sexy, but damnit we need a line to allow plays to develop and Gore to run better to set up those passing plays!

OTC is right on this issue. Even if all our problems could be fixed by obtaining an upgrade at QB (which they won't), there is no suitable upgrade to be had. So the arguments against him are moot.

Now, given that there is no savior (if we needed one) QB to be had, it is best to not squander the opportunity to fix the glaring weakness's which are certainly not disputable weaknesses:

OL
Pass defense.
Kick/punt return.

Simply put...we will get much much more long term bang for the buck investing in upgrading those weaknesses this year than we would on investing in any QB that is available in the draft this year. Those area's, if shored up this year, will produce larger returns, over a longer term, for a cheaper price....than any QB option in the draft this year.

Exactly. If Smith does fail next year, at least we can *hopefully* be assured that there's a stable line in front of the QB in 2011 and there are several pieces in place for him to succeed.

-9fA

Scot... you better make the most of our offseason...

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
OTC, the logic you always present on this otherwise muddled board never ceases to impress me.

O-Line, O-Line, O-Line!! I watched the game live today and was SHOCKED at how quickly the Detroit Lions D-Line was getting through to pressure Alex. The 4th and 1 conversion attempt was pitiful. Hell, the first play of the game was a microcosm of our season: an untouched edge rusher sack. 1st pick - OT; 2nd pick - OT/OG; then we can go out and get skill players in subsequent rounds. Sure, it's not sexy, but damnit we need a line to allow plays to develop and Gore to run better to set up those passing plays!

OTC is right on this issue. Even if all our problems could be fixed by obtaining an upgrade at QB (which they won't), there is no suitable upgrade to be had. So the arguments against him are moot.

Now, given that there is no savior (if we needed one) QB to be had, it is best to not squander the opportunity to fix the glaring weakness's which are certainly not disputable weaknesses:

OL
Pass defense.
Kick/punt return.

Simply put...we will get much much more long term bang for the buck investing in upgrading those weaknesses this year than we would on investing in any QB that is available in the draft this year. Those area's, if shored up this year, will produce larger returns, over a longer term, for a cheaper price....than any QB option in the draft this year.

Exactly. If Smith does fail next year, at least we can *hopefully* be assured that there's a stable line in front of the QB in 2011 and there are several pieces in place for him to succeed.

-9fA

Yes. And, cutting all the board BS QB blah blah blah out....the pass defense has been horrendous...and you aren't going to go anywhere in this league...even with a star QB, kick ass offense...without a good pass defense. You could flip a coin about which one needs fixing more on our team...the OL or pass defense....they are both equally important for success.

Nowm throiw in the horrid field position, the zero help from ST..and yiou have a perfect recipe for losing: Poor o-line play, poor pass defense, only two out of three facets of the game working for you. (Lack of ST).

It really is amazing when you think about it that we have done as well as we have this year considering how f**ked up those three things have been.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
OTC, the logic you always present on this otherwise muddled board never ceases to impress me.

O-Line, O-Line, O-Line!! I watched the game live today and was SHOCKED at how quickly the Detroit Lions D-Line was getting through to pressure Alex. The 4th and 1 conversion attempt was pitiful. Hell, the first play of the game was a microcosm of our season: an untouched edge rusher sack. 1st pick - OT; 2nd pick - OT/OG; then we can go out and get skill players in subsequent rounds. Sure, it's not sexy, but damnit we need a line to allow plays to develop and Gore to run better to set up those passing plays!

OTC is right on this issue. Even if all our problems could be fixed by obtaining an upgrade at QB (which they won't), there is no suitable upgrade to be had. So the arguments against him are moot.

Now, given that there is no savior (if we needed one) QB to be had, it is best to not squander the opportunity to fix the glaring weakness's which are certainly not disputable weaknesses:

OL
Pass defense.
Kick/punt return.

Simply put...we will get much much more long term bang for the buck investing in upgrading those weaknesses this year than we would on investing in any QB that is available in the draft this year. Those area's, if shored up this year, will produce larger returns, over a longer term, for a cheaper price....than any QB option in the draft this year.

Exactly. If Smith does fail next year, at least we can *hopefully* be assured that there's a stable line in front of the QB in 2011 and there are several pieces in place for him to succeed.

-9fA

Yes. And, cutting all the board BS QB blah blah blah out....the pass defense has been horrendous...and you aren't going to go anywhere in this league...even with a star QB, kick ass offense...without a good pass defense. You could flip a coin about which one needs fixing more on our team...the OL or pass defense....they are both equally important for success.

Agreed. A Haden/Davis 1st round would be a dream for us. It would above and beyond fill our two largest needs. Then we can work an OG in the 2nd and KR in the 3rd -- if we haven't signed Mankins/Leon Washington/Reggie Bush. I'm hoping we are aggressive this offseason.

I think QB is the biggest single problem. It takes Smith too long to make a decision about how he should respond to the situation. By then, he is running and it is the Olines fault. The Oline isn't perfect, but isn't as bad as everyone thinks. The team is staying with Smith, so we just need wait and see what an offseason as the started will do. He is much better than he was a couple of years ago. Maybe a little time will give him the experience he needs. Also, there isn't someone else on the team to step in at this time. While I really like Hill, he is just where he should be, the backup. He can help the team better from that position, by just being ready if called. We see flashes from Smith, but we need him to be more consistant.

EVERY game is won and lost in the trenchs.

Anybody who says other wise only proves that they don't know sh-t about football.

How about we get a coaching staff that knows how to create a game plan before half time???

You can't give the elite teams in this league a 20-0 half time lead and expext to win...