Alex Smith vs. Drew Brees...

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:


I have said plenty positives about Alex Smith. I just don't think there's any path comparisons with Drew Brees. If you really want to look at Alex as a whole, then that would not be good.

You should read other posts I have written about how well Alex played against SEA. But the fact is, you don't want to see his flaws. I'm posting both, things he does well and things he doesn't do well.

Just take a look at a post from another person above. He said we didn't go to a shotgun offense, we went to a pass offense, which is why Alex succeeded but he leaves out Alex's major failure in a pass first offense against TEN.

See, you only want to see the SEA Alex but I include both, the SEA Alex and the TEN Alex.

Either way, this thread isn't about how good or bad Alex is. It's about his path with Brees and I don't see one. They were required to do different things for different reasons. One was considered almost a flat out bust. One was given different OC's every year.

There paths are completely different.


The one QB you could closely compare Alex to would be Vince Young. Those guys have had multiple OCs, have been benched, came back, and have had success.

Well...as the original poster, I disagree with you that the career paths are different...but I won't really address that.

As for your Vince Young comment....disagree.

For one, Alex has never been benched. He got hurt and never got his job back after the injury. ;-)

Neither was Drew Brees.

That would seem to support my argument.

Originally posted by Overkill:
Ahh... back with another "devastating" argument, I see. Your position is, apparently, that the only difference between Alex today and Drew Brees in San Diego is a good OL? Okay... to each his own I guess.

I will try using smaller words and symbols:

I like Alex as our starter. I like that we have adjusted the offense so he can produce. I do not want Hill to come back. I do not think Alex sucks.

I think Drew Brees > Alex Smith. If that makes me a blind Alex Smith hater, than so be it.

You're missing the point. Of course Drew Brees now > Alex Smith now. Alex is essentially in his 4th season. Look at Drew's first 4 years and Alex's 4 years, and things look fairly similar.

I think Marvin's point was, "Boy it'll sure be great if the similarities continue and in 3 to 5 years Alex is as good as Brees is now."

It's easy to say now, with hindsight, that Brees is awesome and there's no way Alex will ever get there. But their first few seasons played out very similarly.

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Absolutely ZERO comparison other than the fact that they both hurt their shoulder.

Drew Brees in his rookie year started ONE game in which he went 15 for 27 and 221 yards with 1 TD and 0 INT.

Drew Brees was not being considered to be a backup due to his performance because he threw for 3,284 yards in his second year. He was being considered for the backup because SD paid a crap load to acquire Rivers and it was money sitting on the bench.

Alex was the money sitting on the bench for us, not the successful starter who was already here.

Drew Brees threw 65.5% for 3,159 yards with 27 TDs to 7 INTS for the Chargers in his 4th year!

Chargers were paying too much money for two QBs so they decided to go with the more talent that more money was invested in.

If the Chargers thought they had something in Bree's why did they draft Rivers?

They actually wanted Manning and who could blame them after knowing what his older brother was doing. On top of that, Rivers was a franchise QB with a stronger arm than Brees. Brees' knock was his arm and when he had the shoulder injury, it was in even more question. Chargers didn't just run out and get a QB because they thought Brees sucked. Brees was hurt and already wasn't a "strong-armed" QB.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:


I have said plenty positives about Alex Smith. I just don't think there's any path comparisons with Drew Brees. If you really want to look at Alex as a whole, then that would not be good.

You should read other posts I have written about how well Alex played against SEA. But the fact is, you don't want to see his flaws. I'm posting both, things he does well and things he doesn't do well.

Just take a look at a post from another person above. He said we didn't go to a shotgun offense, we went to a pass offense, which is why Alex succeeded but he leaves out Alex's major failure in a pass first offense against TEN.

See, you only want to see the SEA Alex but I include both, the SEA Alex and the TEN Alex.

Either way, this thread isn't about how good or bad Alex is. It's about his path with Brees and I don't see one. They were required to do different things for different reasons. One was considered almost a flat out bust. One was given different OC's every year.

There paths are completely different.


The one QB you could closely compare Alex to would be Vince Young. Those guys have had multiple OCs, have been benched, came back, and have had success.

Well...as the original poster, I disagree with you that the career paths are different...but I won't really address that.

As for your Vince Young comment....disagree.

For one, Alex has never been benched. He got hurt and never got his job back after the injury. ;-)

Neither was Drew Brees.

That would seem to support my argument.

Yes but the other two points on Young support mine even better. Both of them were viewed as nearly out of the league or at least as possible busts. Brees was not considered as such.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:


I have said plenty positives about Alex Smith. I just don't think there's any path comparisons with Drew Brees. If you really want to look at Alex as a whole, then that would not be good.

You should read other posts I have written about how well Alex played against SEA. But the fact is, you don't want to see his flaws. I'm posting both, things he does well and things he doesn't do well.

Just take a look at a post from another person above. He said we didn't go to a shotgun offense, we went to a pass offense, which is why Alex succeeded but he leaves out Alex's major failure in a pass first offense against TEN.

See, you only want to see the SEA Alex but I include both, the SEA Alex and the TEN Alex.

Either way, this thread isn't about how good or bad Alex is. It's about his path with Brees and I don't see one. They were required to do different things for different reasons. One was considered almost a flat out bust. One was given different OC's every year.

There paths are completely different.


The one QB you could closely compare Alex to would be Vince Young. Those guys have had multiple OCs, have been benched, came back, and have had success.

Well...as the original poster, I disagree with you that the career paths are different...but I won't really address that.

As for your Vince Young comment....disagree.

For one, Alex has never been benched. He got hurt and never got his job back after the injury. ;-)

Neither was Drew Brees.

That would seem to support my argument.

Yes but the other two points on Young support mine even better. Both of them were viewed as nearly out of the league or at least as possible busts. Brees was not considered as such.

potatoes, poTatoes... what's the difference?

- 98

nvm - dbl post

[ Edited by Overkill on Dec 9, 2009 at 14:33:49 ]

This whole thread is annoying me.

For one, people are saying Alex is only good when we open things up. I laugh at this because this is what Alex is good at...distributing the football. Who cares if we don't run if Alex can throw all over the field?

Let's say hypothetically we go to a 100% Pass or spread offense and do not run one time. We dominate the game and Alex throws five TD's. Are people going to still bash him because he didn't throw one of those TD's out of the I-Formation?

"Even though Alex threw 5 TD's this week just like Brees did, he still sucks. Brees threw his TD's out of the I and singleback so that makes Brees better."

I say have at it Alex and drop bombs out of that Spread if that's your thing!

Originally posted by jb49ers80:

Originally posted by Overkill:
Ahh... back with another "devastating" argument, I see. Your position is, apparently, that the only difference between Alex today and Drew Brees in San Diego is a good OL? Okay... to each his own I guess.

I will try using smaller words and symbols:

I like Alex as our starter. I like that we have adjusted the offense so he can produce. I do not want Hill to come back. I do not think Alex sucks.

I think Drew Brees > Alex Smith. If that makes me a blind Alex Smith hater, than so be it.

You're missing the point. Of course Drew Brees now > Alex Smith now. Alex is essentially in his 4th season. Look at Drew's first 4 years and Alex's 4 years, and things look fairly similar.

I think Marvin's point was, "Boy it'll sure be great if the similarities continue and in 3 to 5 years Alex is as good as Brees is now."

It's easy to say now, with hindsight, that Brees is awesome and there's no way Alex will ever get there. But their first few seasons played out very similarly.

First, I am not saying "Brees is awesome and there's no way Alex will ever get there". Alex may get there.

Second, I am saying Drew Brees in SD was/is better than Alex this year because of the way they became successful. Brees grew to find success in the system he played in. Alex found success when he was made the focal point of the offense. You can argue about OL's, VD, whatever - but you can't change the fact Alex only found success after the offense was catered to him.

Third, Drew Brees produced a 104.8 passer rating his fourth year. Alex has yet to match that in his 5th year. Sure, you can argue about injuries making this Alex's 4th year, or argue that Alex's numbers in the spread offense are comparable, but you're really just making my point for me.

Originally posted by kidash:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:


I have said plenty positives about Alex Smith. I just don't think there's any path comparisons with Drew Brees. If you really want to look at Alex as a whole, then that would not be good.

You should read other posts I have written about how well Alex played against SEA. But the fact is, you don't want to see his flaws. I'm posting both, things he does well and things he doesn't do well.

Just take a look at a post from another person above. He said we didn't go to a shotgun offense, we went to a pass offense, which is why Alex succeeded but he leaves out Alex's major failure in a pass first offense against TEN.

See, you only want to see the SEA Alex but I include both, the SEA Alex and the TEN Alex.

Either way, this thread isn't about how good or bad Alex is. It's about his path with Brees and I don't see one. They were required to do different things for different reasons. One was considered almost a flat out bust. One was given different OC's every year.

There paths are completely different.


The one QB you could closely compare Alex to would be Vince Young. Those guys have had multiple OCs, have been benched, came back, and have had success.

Well...as the original poster, I disagree with you that the career paths are different...but I won't really address that.

As for your Vince Young comment....disagree.

For one, Alex has never been benched. He got hurt and never got his job back after the injury. ;-)

Neither was Drew Brees.

That would seem to support my argument.

Yes but the other two points on Young support mine even better. Both of them were viewed as nearly out of the league or at least as possible busts. Brees was not considered as such.

potatoes, poTatoes... what's the difference?

- 98

Tw potatoes was literally considered useless and inedible as if they had mold on them, whereas one of the potatoes was only injured and was still considered a nice dinner.

This is how we get in trouble. We either say he sucks or say he could be Drew Brees. What happens if he has a bad game(which every QB does)? Then everyone is going to say he is a bust.

Here are the facts: He is a QB behind a bad offensive line and a QB on a team that really has no running game to this point. He is doing an exceptional job and he is very accurate and taking great strides.

He isn't Drew Brees or Ryan Leaf or Brad Johnson. He is Alex Smith and I'm happy he is our QB.

Funny..I made this same exact comparison in 06

I think I was on to something.

Originally posted by Overkill:

Originally posted by jb49ers80:

Originally posted by Overkill:
Ahh... back with another "devastating" argument, I see. Your position is, apparently, that the only difference between Alex today and Drew Brees in San Diego is a good OL? Okay... to each his own I guess.

I will try using smaller words and symbols:

I like Alex as our starter. I like that we have adjusted the offense so he can produce. I do not want Hill to come back. I do not think Alex sucks.

I think Drew Brees > Alex Smith. If that makes me a blind Alex Smith hater, than so be it.

You're missing the point. Of course Drew Brees now > Alex Smith now. Alex is essentially in his 4th season. Look at Drew's first 4 years and Alex's 4 years, and things look fairly similar.

I think Marvin's point was, "Boy it'll sure be great if the similarities continue and in 3 to 5 years Alex is as good as Brees is now."

It's easy to say now, with hindsight, that Brees is awesome and there's no way Alex will ever get there. But their first few seasons played out very similarly.

First, I am not saying "Brees is awesome and there's no way Alex will ever get there". Alex may get there.

Second, I am saying Drew Brees in SD was/is better than Alex this year because of the way they became successful. Brees grew to find success in the system he played in. Alex found success when he was made the focal point of the offense. You can argue about OL's, VD, whatever - but you can't change the fact Alex only found success after the offense was catered to him.

Third, Drew Brees produced a 104.8 passer rating his fourth year. Alex has yet to match that in his 5th year. Sure, you can argue about injuries making this Alex's 4th year, or argue that Alex's numbers in the spread offense are comparable, but you're really just making my point for me.

Okay. I think that's fair, and you are entitled to your opinion.

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
This whole thread is annoying me.

For one, people are saying Alex is only good when we open things up. I laugh at this because this is what Alex is good at...distributing the football. Who cares if we don't run if Alex can throw all over the field?

Let's say hypothetically we go to a 100% Pass or spread offense and do not run one time. We dominate the game and Alex throws five TD's. Are people going to still bash him because he didn't throw one of those TD's out of the I-Formation?

"Even though Alex threw 5 TD's this week just like Brees did, he still sucks. Brees threw his TD's out of the I and singleback so that makes Brees better."

I say have at it Alex and drop bombs out of that Spread if that's your thing!

You know what's really annoying? Ppl posting the same thing 3 times because they feel their post is such genius that the only reason it hasn't drawn a response is that nobody has read it.

Alex Smith is who i thought he was. and im gonna crown him. the guy finally gets a team around him and guess what, he performs, and performs very well. he is already in the top half of the league. just wait till we get a lineman or two and can actually run the ball and pass protect longer than 2 seconds and you'll see Alex really tear it up. most players with 5 years NFL experience are in their late 20's, alex is only 25 so he will be here for a very long time, his early graduation was a blessing because it let him suffer through his rookie and sophomore seasons and get that experience and is now playing at a high level when most rookies are just starting to get playing time. i cant wait to see him and the rest of this offense in the same offensive system for 2 years in a row and some new linemen to open Gore up a little bit. next year we will be a very dominant offense. and i believe we play Brees next year, that should be a pretty good showdown.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Just as an example....

Brees barely played as a rookie and Alex probably shouldn't have played at all....so I will throw out thiose statistics.

Lets start with year 2 stats....both players in a Norv Turner offense.

YEAR 2
Brees: 320 526 60.8 3,284 17 TDs 16 INTs 76.9 Rating
Smith: 257 442 58.1 2,890 16 TDs 16 INTs 74.8 Rating

In year three, Brees struggled. Smith got hurt in week 4 and shouldn't have been playing. 3 INTs came in games AFTER the injury and were on WAY underthrown deep throws. Nolan NEVER should have allowed him to play.

YEAR 3
Brees: 205 356 57.6 2,108 11 TDs 15 INTs 67.5 Rating
Smith: 94 193 48.7 914 2 TDs 4 INTs 57.2 Rating

Smith didn't get another shot to play the following season after another year of alternating OCs and an injury based on the prior seasons injury. For that reason, I'll count THIS season as Smiths year 4.

YEAR 4
Brees: 262 400 65.5 3,159 27 TDs 7 INTs 104.8 Rating
Smith: 149 241 61.8 1,577 13 TDs 7 INTs 86.7 Rating (so far)

Keep in mind tho that at this point Brees has been in the same O for 4 years and Smith is in a new O for the 5th time in 5 years.

I don't want to make it sound as if I'm saying Smith will throw for 5000 yards next year, I'm just saying Brees is an example of what happens when you hang around long enough and work yard enough. It will eventually all come around.

THAT is why I never really gave up on Smith. He wants it and he warks HARD.
He's not Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell, two players with a world of potential but are/were total nutcases.

Great Post; thanks for the stats!!! We are all gonna look back and say how glad we are the Niners didn't give up on Alex.........