Crabtree Discussion Thread

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by mac707g:

Originally posted by valrod33:


you dont know that Crabtrees camp hasnt responded, hell we just found out the other day that we sent the letter last week requesting a sit down.

Yes we do. MM and Barrows have said as recently as yesterday that the Niners haven't heard anything back from $$$tree's side.

valrod33 knows this.... he simply enjoys being a thorn in folks posts

and here clearly playing the clown.

im laughing cuz i didnt even know you were the one i was quoting, and no i didnt know that mm and them reported that, even if crabtrees camp does respond i doubt the niners will let anybody know cuz of the huge circus that would show up

You "not knowing" is no surprise.

Wow that and the clown comment may be the death of you.....

Oh well

Don't agree with you.... but I bet YOU would jump for joy if it did happen, huh.

Jump for joy ? No.

But I would pull a Kelly Washington and do his infamous Squirrel Dance!

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
Was checking for any news...don't wanted to get fooled again....but has anyone else noticed that Jed York went on the Radio about wanting to meet with crabtree and agent about four days after an invite to meet was issued to them? And there has not been a response. I find that very interesting. You would think it would be professional curtosey to reply to an NFL Owner......to me this means one of two things

1) He is still bothered with a foot injury...There was an unsubstantiated siting of Crabtree going into the back of a sports doctors office in Lubbock yesterday....

2) They are already guaranteed the money from another team. ESPN insiders has an article..(i am not subscribed) that says he could be going to the Jets....

It is interesting to note that we are not guaranteed to be able to trade him March 1 if he does not sign. He would have to agree to sign. The other way is to trade his rights but that would require a team knowing that they could sign him. That is my bet what happens if we can't get a meeting that Jed requested or subsequently sign him

Who knows, may be some truth to some of the above. I do find it odd that the team that drafted Craptree (9ers) still to this day have zero idea what Craptree 40 time is, I certainly would want to know BEFORE i pay him MILLIONS. Yes, it does matter, if he can oly run say a 4.59 - 4.60 he ain't gonna get seperation in the NFL like he did in College. (can you say J.J. Stokes).

Secondly, with the Craptree camp dis-respectfully not even responding to Jed York open invitation to talk yet, this is just another Red Flag to add to this whole circus.

Something is very, very odd with Mr. Craptree. Hope the 9ers dont foolishly OVERPAY to find out just what that may be.

Craptree clearly is giving no signals he wants to co-operate, no signals he is going do any bending, no signals he dreams of being a 9er, and certainly no signals he is dying to play NFL football.

The only clear signal is.... OVERPAY him if you want him.

For the last time, THE 40 TIME DOES NOT MATTER! It's an overrated metric and that is it. How many times in an NFL game does a WR run straight for 40 yards with no pads and no one in front of them? Answer: NEVER.

The best WR in the history of the game ran a 4.7. Boldin ran a 4.71, Fitzgerald a 4.63 and Owens a 4.6. I'm pretty sure they've all faired pretty well in their NFL careers. I would rather have a receiver who has good hands, runs good routes and can block down field than someone who can run in straight line. With your logic, we probably should have drafted DHB.

There are more WR's who came out of College as star's but in the NFL simply could not get "seperation" in the NFL with one factor being poor 40 yard times. Yes, there are exceptions as you noted above. There is zero guarantee Craptree is a Boldin or Fitzgerald, and zero guarantee that Craptree ain't a J.J. Stokes or Rashaun Woods.

IF 40 times Do Not Matter, as you claim.... then explain WHY they matter in the NFL combine and more importly WHY they matter to NFL Teams?

Tick, tock, tick tock, we are waiting.

NFL teams put WAY too much stock in 40 times.

Look at the number of 1st round pick that are taken based on a 40 time who completely flop and then a guy who didn't get a great time gets taken in the 3rd and is called a "steal".

While Crabtree may not be superfast, he is very quick and sudden.

I don't think separation will be an issue. I saw him beat guys at the line on a regular basis in college. How? QUICKNESS.

As you just said.... in "College" he beat guys. This is the NFL.

And there is a REASON that "NFL" teams put much importance on 40 times, as much as some claim it is not important. I think NFL teams know better than us fans.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by mac707g:

Originally posted by valrod33:


you dont know that Crabtrees camp hasnt responded, hell we just found out the other day that we sent the letter last week requesting a sit down.

Yes we do. MM and Barrows have said as recently as yesterday that the Niners haven't heard anything back from $$$tree's side.

valrod33 knows this.... he simply enjoys being a thorn in folks posts

and here clearly playing the clown.

im laughing cuz i didnt even know you were the one i was quoting, and no i didnt know that mm and them reported that, even if crabtrees camp does respond i doubt the niners will let anybody know cuz of the huge circus that would show up

You "not knowing" is no surprise.

Wow that and the clown comment may be the death of you.....

Oh well

Don't agree with you.... but I bet YOU would jump for joy if it did happen, huh.

Jump for joy ? No.

But I would pull a Kelly Washington and do his infamous Squirrel Dance!

Indeed

Another thing he won't do is be on this page. Look at DHB with his smug look.

I thought we would be able to vote for him sometime. I guess not.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
Was checking for any news...don't wanted to get fooled again....but has anyone else noticed that Jed York went on the Radio about wanting to meet with crabtree and agent about four days after an invite to meet was issued to them? And there has not been a response. I find that very interesting. You would think it would be professional curtosey to reply to an NFL Owner......to me this means one of two things

1) He is still bothered with a foot injury...There was an unsubstantiated siting of Crabtree going into the back of a sports doctors office in Lubbock yesterday....

2) They are already guaranteed the money from another team. ESPN insiders has an article..(i am not subscribed) that says he could be going to the Jets....

It is interesting to note that we are not guaranteed to be able to trade him March 1 if he does not sign. He would have to agree to sign. The other way is to trade his rights but that would require a team knowing that they could sign him. That is my bet what happens if we can't get a meeting that Jed requested or subsequently sign him

Who knows, may be some truth to some of the above. I do find it odd that the team that drafted Craptree (9ers) still to this day have zero idea what Craptree 40 time is, I certainly would want to know BEFORE i pay him MILLIONS. Yes, it does matter, if he can oly run say a 4.59 - 4.60 he ain't gonna get seperation in the NFL like he did in College. (can you say J.J. Stokes).

Secondly, with the Craptree camp dis-respectfully not even responding to Jed York open invitation to talk yet, this is just another Red Flag to add to this whole circus.

Something is very, very odd with Mr. Craptree. Hope the 9ers dont foolishly OVERPAY to find out just what that may be.

Craptree clearly is giving no signals he wants to co-operate, no signals he is going do any bending, no signals he dreams of being a 9er, and certainly no signals he is dying to play NFL football.

The only clear signal is.... OVERPAY him if you want him.

For the last time, THE 40 TIME DOES NOT MATTER! It's an overrated metric and that is it. How many times in an NFL game does a WR run straight for 40 yards with no pads and no one in front of them? Answer: NEVER.

The best WR in the history of the game ran a 4.7. Boldin ran a 4.71, Fitzgerald a 4.63 and Owens a 4.6. I'm pretty sure they've all faired pretty well in their NFL careers. I would rather have a receiver who has good hands, runs good routes and can block down field than someone who can run in straight line. With your logic, we probably should have drafted DHB.

There are more WR's who came out of College as star's but in the NFL simply could not get "seperation" in the NFL with one factor being poor 40 yard times. Yes, there are exceptions as you noted above. There is zero guarantee Craptree is a Boldin or Fitzgerald, and zero guarantee that Craptree ain't a J.J. Stokes or Rashaun Woods.

IF 40 times Do Not Matter, as you claim.... then explain WHY they matter in the NFL combine and more importly WHY they matter to NFL Teams?

Tick, tock, tick tock, we are waiting.

So idiotic people like Al Davis will draft DHB instead of the better player because he didn't run a 40 at the combine. They only matter to NFL teams to gauge some sort of speed for the player in a straight line. If the same receiver shows the ability to run polished routes and doesn't drop balls and can block downfield, they aren't going to care what his 40 time is.

You act like it's the main metric in justifying whether or not a receiver can gain separation. Sorry to tell you but it's not. Plenty of receivers who run 4.6's and 4.7's can gain separation in the NFL and have gone on to have really good careers.

I don't give half a s**t what Crabtree runs in the 40. Have you looked at his college games? Did you ever watch him play at all? There is a ton more to him than one metric at the combine. Could he be a bust? Sure, but so could every last pick in the draft. No one should say the Niners shouldn't sign him just because no one knows what his 40 time is. That's just absolutely ridiculous.

I agree with you. The 40 is way overrated. There's a difference with straight line speed and in-game speed. Take a look at Troy Williamson. Taken high in the first round; had a 4.3 40 yard time, but way slow on the field and his hands are awful.

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
Was checking for any news...don't wanted to get fooled again....but has anyone else noticed that Jed York went on the Radio about wanting to meet with crabtree and agent about four days after an invite to meet was issued to them? And there has not been a response. I find that very interesting. You would think it would be professional curtosey to reply to an NFL Owner......to me this means one of two things

1) He is still bothered with a foot injury...There was an unsubstantiated siting of Crabtree going into the back of a sports doctors office in Lubbock yesterday....

2) They are already guaranteed the money from another team. ESPN insiders has an article..(i am not subscribed) that says he could be going to the Jets....

It is interesting to note that we are not guaranteed to be able to trade him March 1 if he does not sign. He would have to agree to sign. The other way is to trade his rights but that would require a team knowing that they could sign him. That is my bet what happens if we can't get a meeting that Jed requested or subsequently sign him

Who knows, may be some truth to some of the above. I do find it odd that the team that drafted Craptree (9ers) still to this day have zero idea what Craptree 40 time is, I certainly would want to know BEFORE i pay him MILLIONS. Yes, it does matter, if he can oly run say a 4.59 - 4.60 he ain't gonna get seperation in the NFL like he did in College. (can you say J.J. Stokes).

Secondly, with the Craptree camp dis-respectfully not even responding to Jed York open invitation to talk yet, this is just another Red Flag to add to this whole circus.

Something is very, very odd with Mr. Craptree. Hope the 9ers dont foolishly OVERPAY to find out just what that may be.

Craptree clearly is giving no signals he wants to co-operate, no signals he is going do any bending, no signals he dreams of being a 9er, and certainly no signals he is dying to play NFL football.

The only clear signal is.... OVERPAY him if you want him.

For the last time, THE 40 TIME DOES NOT MATTER! It's an overrated metric and that is it. How many times in an NFL game does a WR run straight for 40 yards with no pads and no one in front of them? Answer: NEVER.

The best WR in the history of the game ran a 4.7. Boldin ran a 4.71, Fitzgerald a 4.63 and Owens a 4.6. I'm pretty sure they've all faired pretty well in their NFL careers. I would rather have a receiver who has good hands, runs good routes and can block down field than someone who can run in straight line. With your logic, we probably should have drafted DHB.

There are more WR's who came out of College as star's but in the NFL simply could not get "seperation" in the NFL with one factor being poor 40 yard times. Yes, there are exceptions as you noted above. There is zero guarantee Craptree is a Boldin or Fitzgerald, and zero guarantee that Craptree ain't a J.J. Stokes or Rashaun Woods.

IF 40 times Do Not Matter, as you claim.... then explain WHY they matter in the NFL combine and more importly WHY they matter to NFL Teams?

Tick, tock, tick tock, we are waiting.

NFL teams put WAY too much stock in 40 times.

Look at the number of 1st round pick that are taken based on a 40 time who completely flop and then a guy who didn't get a great time gets taken in the 3rd and is called a "steal".

While Crabtree may not be superfast, he is very quick and sudden.

I don't think separation will be an issue. I saw him beat guys at the line on a regular basis in college. How? QUICKNESS.

As you just said.... in "College" he beat guys. This is the NFL.

And there is a REASON that "NFL" teams put much importance on 40 times, as much as some claim it is not important. I think NFL teams know better than us fans.

You would think.

Yet it happens ALL THE TIME.

If the draft were as cut and dry as you suggest, there would be much fewer busts and alot less steals.

The 40 is simply a standardized way of measuring one part of a football player's athleticism, not his football playing ability. It helps compare their relative quickness to one another, but means a little more than jacksh*t on the football field.

This isn't Madden.

The confusion of the crabtree situation has captured you all, as you are now arguing about 40 times.

The Crabtree thread is a cycle. We post thoughts on why he is holding out or what we think should happen and then we post the same stuff the next day. The experts also tell us the same information everyday. Nobody knows what is going on except Crabtree and Parker. I don't even thin the Niners know whats going on, it doesn't seem like Camp Crabtree is talking to the niners at all.

Boldin 4.71
Fitzgerald 4.53
Owens 4.6
Moss 4.29
A Johnson 4.43
ochocinco 4.45
Housh 4.61
Marshall 4.57
Smith 4.38
Rice 4.7
Wayne 4.49


40 times dont make the player other than Steve Smith and Randy Moss none of these other guys ran the greatest 40s

the GOAT ran 4.7


i bet if you look at the WRs with the fastest 40 times i dont know say in the last 10 years, those guys numbers wouldnt compare to the guys above

he should really sit down and think of the money he's throwing away and realize it won't be there next year......

Originally posted by valrod33:
Boldin 4.71
Fitzgerald 4.53
Owens 4.6
Moss 4.29
A Johnson 4.43
ochocinco 4.45
Housh 4.61
Marshall 4.57
Smith 4.38
Rice 4.7
Wayne 4.49


40 times dont make the player other than Steve Smith and Randy Moss none of these other guys ran the greatest 40s

the GOAT ran 4.7


i bet if you look at the WRs with the fastest 40 times i dont know say in the last 10 years, those guys numbers wouldnt compare to the guys above

Even in this past draft DHB had the fastest 40 but was suppose to be a late 1st round or early 2nd round pick, but Al Davis fell in love with the 40 time.

with us or with out us. i hope his career ends quick. he's a piece of_____ and he doesn't deserve his right to play for a well rounded league! he's one person on the field of 11. he hasn't prove to be worth more then the other players that were drafted before him. he hasn't done anything but look pretty on the sidelines (might as well be a cheerleader for practice). his resume in college looked excellent (keep in mind SPREAD OFFENSE! so did ALEX SMITH in a SPREAD OFFENSE) but this is NFL! his speed lacks! his quickness will be rusty! i hope he joins the cowboys and comes across the middle like he did in college! cause you know who is waiting for him in the middle! he has a bounty on him no matter what team he goes with. he'll have a bigger bounty on him by dissing the niners! i hope he drops into the later rounds 6th or 7th or undrafted! he's a joke! he's fooling himself if he thinks he could get paid with out even being proven! what a prick! i hope he gets injured with us as a niner or with out us! and becomes a sales person at your local mall!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/michael_rosenberg/09/17/crabtree/index.html

Quote:
Try to imagine yourself in Michael Crabtree's situation. No, really



Michael Crabtree has had an unusual NFL career so far, wouldn't you say? He was drafted in April, and since then, he has played zero games and grown two horns.

As you have probably heard by now, Crabtree was supposed to be one of the top seven picks in the draft, fell to San Francisco at 10, and is having a little trouble getting over it. He wants to be paid like one of the top seven picks. And its a bad, bad time to be a holdout in the middle of the Great Recession, with millions losing their jobs, everybody worried about health care, people starving in Africa, etc. Michael Crabtree is supposed to eat his vegetables and shut up.

For a society that loves its sports stars, we are remarkably adept at painting then as the devil. Crabtree is just the latest. But let's step back for a second and try to climb into Crabtree's head.

As he watched the 49ers upset the NFC champion Cardinals last week, he had to wonder:

How did I get here?

If we're honest, well admit that on a smaller scale, we've all boxed ourselves into an untenable position like Michael Crabtree. You start arguing that Brandon Roy is an underrated NBA star, and people mock you, and this ticks you off, and you tell them they don't get it, and the next thing you know, you're saying that Roy is better than Kobe Bryant, as good as Michael Jordan, and you think, Whoa, this makes no sense, what am I saying here? But you are stuck. You re backed into a corner and you're too embarrassed to crawl out.

This all started because Crabtree and his agent, Eugene Parker, decided to use mock drafts to get some extra money out of the Niners. The Raiders drafted receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey ahead of him, for reasons that made no sense to anybody, and Crabtree and Parker figure the Niners should right that wrong.

(I can only imagine Parker's next trick: My client should be paid like the No. 3 pick, because that is where he went in my fantasy draft. Yes, its true that he was drafted by my brother. But my brother finished fourth in his league last year, which is more than I can say for the 49ers.

At some point, Crabtree became his negotiating tactic.

Crabtree is wrong, of course. But he is also right: he should have been drafted higher. Everybody thought so. In fact, after the draft, experts (and people like me) argued over whether Matthew Stafford was better than Mark Sanchez, or whether the Chiefs drafted Tyson Jackson too high, and why Al Davis used his second-round pick to draft Lyle Alzado. But we all agreed that Michael Crabtree should have been picked higher.

Even the 49ers agreed.

"We had no idea he would be there at 10," coach Mike Singletary said after Crabtree was drafted. "It was one of the last scenarios we thought we would end up with. He's been one of the best guys, the past couple of years in college football."

General manager Scot McCloughan said: ""I really didn't think it would happen. That's a long way for a guy like that to fall, to 10.

Does this mean the 49ers should pay Crabtree like he was the No. 5 pick? Of course not. He was picked 10th. He should be paid like he was picked 10th. That's not my point. I'm just saying: I understand why he thought he could get more.

Crabtree is mostly hurting himself. For all the heat he's taken, its not like he broke a contract. He never had a contract. This is like going to the supermarket and deciding milk is overpriced, it shouldn't be more than two bucks a gallon, and everybody looks at you like you're crazy, but dammit, you've been around the block, you know how many cows live in a 20-mile radius, and this is ridiculous. And everybody else buys their groceries and you look like an idiot and you know it, but it is humiliating to finally fork over the full price.

Try to put yourself in Crabtree's spot. You know you screwed up. If you could do it all over again, you might hire a different agent, and you definitely would have taken the 49ers offers two months ago. But you can't do it all over again. This is where you are.

You know who can save him? The 49ers.

They don't have to pay him like the No. 5 or 7 pick. They just have to give him a chance to save face.

Alter the deal slightly. Give him a little more money up front. Put some crazy incentives in there that he'll probably never reach, but will give him a chance to say, Hey, all I said is that I believe I'm the best receiver in this draft, and now if I prove it, I will be properly rewarded.

The rest of us will roll our eyes, but we'll move on. Crabtree will get paid a lot of money to play football, Parker can claim he won, and the 49ers will have the heir to Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens. And Michael Crabtree can go to his bedroom at night, turn off the light, laugh to himself and think, as we all do sometimes: I cant believe I did that.

Wow, I don't know if anybody has posted this one yet. It looks like some other executives are saying the niners should have known better when they drafted crabtree.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-draftpickprotection091709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns