Vernon Davis "is the focal point"

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by jdt84_2:

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I think that K's opinion is that NO TIGHT END is ever worth a top ten pick.

Well thanks for explaining, but isn't that a little silly. If any NFL team in the league were given the opportunity to go back and take Tony Gonzalez with a top 10 pick, do you think they would hesitate for even a minute? Maybe Kizray is stuck in the past - the tight end position has been going through changes as a function of constantly improving size and athleticism. There are tight ends now with the speed and moves to change games, just as wide receivers have done in the past. And, I'm guessing you'll see more tight ends going in the top picks in the years to come because guys who play that position are simultaneously getting faster and bigger. Vernon Davis should be the kind of player who, when he catches a ball in space in the flat or out about 10 to 15 yards, can get huge swaths of yardage just with his speed.

i do not think tony goes top 10. neither does shannon sharpe, antonio gates, jeremy shockey, dallas clark, or any other TE for that matter. every single one of those TEs requires a good backup, and that one needs to be a good to great blocker.

and the bigger stronger faster stuff does not matter, everyone is getting bigger stronger faster. and then, when a whole position is growing, and everybody is becoming better, well then what is wong with getting the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best player? afterall they will still be bigger stronger faster then the previous generation.

No, if you look back over the last four or five decades, the changing physical attributes and abilities of players have led to changes in scheme, strategy, and emphasis on both sides of the ball. That's part of the reason why Al Davis is such a problem for the Raiders.

?????i am confused here?

what does that have to with what i said?

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I think that K's opinion is that NO TIGHT END is ever worth a top ten pick.

Well thanks for explaining, but isn't that a little silly. If any NFL team in the league were given the opportunity to go back and take Tony Gonzalez with a top 10 pick, do you think they would hesitate for even a minute? Maybe Kizray is stuck in the past - the tight end position has been going through changes as a function of constantly improving size and athleticism. There are tight ends now with the speed and moves to change games, just as wide receivers have done in the past. And, I'm guessing you'll see more tight ends going in the top picks in the years to come because guys who play that position are simultaneously getting faster and bigger. Vernon Davis should be the kind of player who, when he catches a ball in space in the flat or out about 10 to 15 yards, can get huge swaths of yardage just with his speed.

Do you see how many good TE's there are putting up pretty good to great numbers that aren't pgysical specimens? ALOT! Why are they putting up good numbers? Because they are getting the same oppurtunities that you guys want Vernon to get. Not because they are physically gifted. See Eric Johnson, Jason Witten and many others.

I'm tired of hearing the kind of player Vernon CAN be. He has yet to show this player you dreamed up after the combine. That player doesn't exist!


I don't know if you're a fantasy football player. If you are then you know that TE's are usually the last starting position player to be filled. Why is it that in a statistical game they are bypassed for backups at other positions?

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I think that K's opinion is that NO TIGHT END is ever worth a top ten pick.

Well thanks for explaining, but isn't that a little silly. If any NFL team in the league were given the opportunity to go back and take Tony Gonzalez with a top 10 pick, do you think they would hesitate for even a minute? Maybe Kizray is stuck in the past - the tight end position has been going through changes as a function of constantly improving size and athleticism. There are tight ends now with the speed and moves to change games, just as wide receivers have done in the past. And, I'm guessing you'll see more tight ends going in the top picks in the years to come because guys who play that position are simultaneously getting faster and bigger. Vernon Davis should be the kind of player who, when he catches a ball in space in the flat or out about 10 to 15 yards, can get huge swaths of yardage just with his speed.

Do you see how many good TE's there are putting up pretty good to great numbers that aren't pgysical specimens? ALOT! Why are they putting up good numbers? Because they are getting the same oppurtunities that you guys want Vernon to get. Not because they are physically gifted. See Eric Johnson, Jason Witten and many others.

I'm tired of hearing the kind of player Vernon CAN be. He has yet to show this player you dreamed up after the combine. That player doesn't exist!


I don't know if you're a fantasy football player. If you are then you know that TE's are usually the last starting position player to be filled. Why is it that in a statistical game they are bypassed for backups at other positions?

Man, you can't even explain what it is you would like Davis to accomplish which would make you happy he's the starting tight end. Evidently, Jason Witten and Eric Johnson have accomplished something you approve of - why don't you think of it this way: what would Eric Johnson have to accomplish to make you think he should have been drafted in the top 10? And for those of you who think Hall-of-Fame caliber TE's shouldn't, in retrospect, have been considered top 10 picks, that's just not logical. A Hall of Famer is, by definition, someone who should have been drafted sooner than he was unless he was drafted number one.

Vernon Davis will make the pro bowl this season.

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I think that K's opinion is that NO TIGHT END is ever worth a top ten pick.

When you look back on their careers, would you say Tony Gonzalez or Kellen Winslow Sr. wouldn't have merited a top-10 pick. Or to put it another way, if the Chiefs had picked Gonzalez at number 6, would they have gotten quality out of their first round pick?

OK you got me! If you have a time machine or a crystal ball then yes a TE is worth a top 10 pick in my opinion!

I think it's a mistake to make Davis the focal point of the offense. We've bolstered our receiving core enough over the past few years to the point were he can just be a key contributor. Revolve the offense around Gore, and our revamped receiver core. Frankly he's not good enough to be the focal point either.

We should be happy if he develops into a better version of Daniel Graham. One of the best blocking TE's in football whose a reliable receiver as well. Granted that might not be worth the 6th pick in the draft but Graham did receive a 5 year 30 million deal.

If Vernon continues to be amongst the best blockers in football and has a 45 catch 500 yards 5 TD season I'm estatic about his production.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy but I do have one question. Has the guy actually been given the opportunity to get YAC? What I mean is that a big part of getting YAC is running routes that allow for it. If a receiver is being asked to sit down in the zone you can't expect him to get much YAC. A guy like VD needs to run crossing patterns and other routes that will allow him to accelerate once he catches the ball. I don't know, maybe someone that watches and breaks down film can shed some light on the type of routes Davis has been asked to run.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I think that K's opinion is that NO TIGHT END is ever worth a top ten pick.

When you look back on their careers, would you say Tony Gonzalez or Kellen Winslow Sr. wouldn't have merited a top-10 pick. Or to put it another way, if the Chiefs had picked Gonzalez at number 6, would they have gotten quality out of their first round pick?

OK you got me! If you have a time machine or a crystal ball then yes a TE is worth a top 10 pick in my opinion!

My only beef is with this dictum of yours that a team should never take a tight end with a high pick. If you're sitting there in '05, you already know guys like Gonzalez have taken over games, gone to the probowl, gotten TD's and are on their way to the HOF. So, why not roll the dice on a player who looks like he could be like Gonzalez only better? Obviously, Davis hasn't been that, but I can see why they thought he could be and I haven't lost hope that he can turn into that player.

Originally posted by BMore9ersfan:
I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy but I do have one question. Has the guy actually been given the opportunity to get YAC? What I mean is that a big part of getting YAC is running routes that allow for it. If a receiver is being asked to sit down in the zone you can't expect him to get much YAC. A guy like VD needs to run crossing patterns and other routes that will allow him to accelerate once he catches the ball. I don't know, maybe someone that watches and breaks down film can shed some light on the type of routes Davis has been asked to run.

VD cannot run those routes. He doesn't have the fluidity in and out of the breaks, nor can he catch while he's running.

The best way to use Davis is on screens and shallow crossing routes - that's about it. Anything over 10 yards and you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm hoping that Raye has realized this.

-9fA

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I think that K's opinion is that NO TIGHT END is ever worth a top ten pick.

Well thanks for explaining, but isn't that a little silly. If any NFL team in the league were given the opportunity to go back and take Tony Gonzalez with a top 10 pick, do you think they would hesitate for even a minute? Maybe Kizray is stuck in the past - the tight end position has been going through changes as a function of constantly improving size and athleticism. There are tight ends now with the speed and moves to change games, just as wide receivers have done in the past. And, I'm guessing you'll see more tight ends going in the top picks in the years to come because guys who play that position are simultaneously getting faster and bigger. Vernon Davis should be the kind of player who, when he catches a ball in space in the flat or out about 10 to 15 yards, can get huge swaths of yardage just with his speed.

Do you see how many good TE's there are putting up pretty good to great numbers that aren't pgysical specimens? ALOT! Why are they putting up good numbers? Because they are getting the same oppurtunities that you guys want Vernon to get. Not because they are physically gifted. See Eric Johnson, Jason Witten and many others.

I'm tired of hearing the kind of player Vernon CAN be. He has yet to show this player you dreamed up after the combine. That player doesn't exist!


I don't know if you're a fantasy football player. If you are then you know that TE's are usually the last starting position player to be filled. Why is it that in a statistical game they are bypassed for backups at other positions?

Man, you can't even explain what it is you would like Davis to accomplish which would make you happy he's the starting tight end. Evidently, Jason Witten and Eric Johnson have accomplished something you approve of - why don't you think of it this way: what would Eric Johnson have to accomplish to make you think he should have been drafted in the top 10? And for those of you who think Hall-of-Fame caliber TE's shouldn't, in retrospect, have been considered top 10 picks, that's just not logical. A Hall of Famer is, by definition, someone who should have been drafted sooner than he was unless he was drafted number one.

I would like Davis to achieve the GOD like status he was given from day one. I would like for him to revlolutionize the position. I would like him to run by every linebacker and treat DB's like ragdolls like I had to read about for 3 years.


On a semi-more seriousness note. There is no number for him to accomplish. Just be the playmaker in sept-dec like they claim he is every May! So in short, he has to do things that other TE's can't/don't do. If he does that, the numbers don't matter they'll be there. Now I strongly suggest you don't hold your breath waiting for this miracle!

Kizray: "Now I strongly suggest you don't hold your breath waiting for this miracle!"

Very good advice.

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I think that K's opinion is that NO TIGHT END is ever worth a top ten pick.

When you look back on their careers, would you say Tony Gonzalez or Kellen Winslow Sr. wouldn't have merited a top-10 pick. Or to put it another way, if the Chiefs had picked Gonzalez at number 6, would they have gotten quality out of their first round pick?

OK you got me! If you have a time machine or a crystal ball then yes a TE is worth a top 10 pick in my opinion!

My only beef is with this dictum of yours that a team should never take a tight end with a high pick. If you're sitting there in '05, you already know guys like Gonzalez have taken over games, gone to the probowl, gotten TD's and are on their way to the HOF. So, why not roll the dice on a player who looks like he could be like Gonzalez only better? Obviously, Davis hasn't been that, but I can see why they thought he could be and I haven't lost hope that he can turn into that player.

Can't the same be said for guys at other positions? You can get a productive TE damn near anywhere in the draft. The pure fact that not alot of TE's go early should also tell you something.

But you know what. I respect your opinion. But this topic has ran it's course 1,000 times over. Tired of repeating myself.


So here's to Vernon becoming God like!

When Vernon breaks out this year, all you that hate on him are gunna be the biggest flip flopers,

Vernon Davis is gunna be a captian this year.

Originally posted by Grigga2021:
When Vernon breaks out this year, all you that hate on him are gunna be the biggest flip flopers,

Vernon Davis is gunna be a captian this year.

I just have one thing to say to Krizay. It was a mistake to draft a TE that high. No TE should be drafted where he was, this is not Vernon's fault. Just becasue people got wowed by his combine numbers doesn't mean it's his fault he has not lived up to these colossal predictions that he will "revolutionize" the TE position. I think you have to seperate the man from the hype.

The guy is one of the hardest workers on the team and although he lets his emotions get the best of him too much, he's a good teamate and wants to win. If he can get 700 yards, 5-6 touchdowns with a few gamebreaking plays and a few boneheaded plays to go along with his very good blocking I think that makes him a very good players and I think we would all be very satisfied with him.

It was a bad pick and Heloti Ngata would've been a much better pick, but if he does this and becomes a solid 2nd tier recieving tight end I think you should tone down the VD hate.