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Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

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Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Patton:
Originally posted by 4ML:


Some nice looking throws by Trey in this video!! I hope he shines when he gets on the field!!!

It's wild to see the hatful comments in that tweet. I've never seen someone get hated on so bad by his own fan base. whatever with people outside of the 49er fan base. That's just what football does.

Dude does everything you want your QB to do. He's nothing but professional and supportive of everyone. He puts in all the work you want the QB to do. He sounds like a great all around human being and yet the hate is next level. Pretty f**king pathetic imo.

i can think of someone.
[ Edited by JoseCortez on Aug 7, 2023 at 7:48 AM ]
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Originally posted by genus49:
He played his best game as a pro in a must win game. Some are quick to dismiss that game because it was vs the Texans but forget the pressure of that game. Had we lost we don't make the playoffs in any scenario the following week.

It's pretty obvious why Trey is making a significant improvement. He's healthy and put in the work which is very clear to see as far as his mechanics. He's also in his 3rd year in the offense. He SHOULD be improved so I'm not sure why some of you are surprised and questioning why.

And he's healthy. People cried about the spiral, like he never threw one in his life lol. Never mind the broken finger and having to hold the ball completely different. Common sense you'd think would prevail.

From the sounds of it, all 3 QBs are making plays and having a solid camp. Arrow up!
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by libertyforever:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by libertyforever:
If you see it as just completing a pass, sure.

However, that is not it. For short passes especially, it is important to hit the receiver on stride for YAC.

This also improves exponentially the shorter the pass is. Not sure what u are trying to say.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

U want those short passes to be as perfect as possible, not just catchable. In that sense, I disagree with you.


You want ALL passes to be as perfect as possible,... No?

It is easier to be more accurate the shorter the throw if you look at it like a basketball hoop, but I disagree because the hoop should not be the same size. The longer the throw the more time for the receiver to make adjustments.

I think short passes are as hard as long passes. *The catch* is an example. Joe couldn't even see Dwight when he threw because Ed "too tall" Jones was obscuring his vision. So he threw it blindly.

Another example, Jimmy throwing to (I think) Jeff Wilson to win the cardial game a few years back. Same thing. Jimmy couldn't see Jeff Wilson because a blitz was coming his way and the left tackle obscuring his vision. He just had to trust Jeff was where he was supposed to be and threw it.

Finally these outlet/check down passes are 4th or 5th reads, and they are the last options prior to just bailing out of the pocket. In that sense, their lower priorities tend to make them just as hard to throw as long passes because of all the reads you have to do before reading the short pass option.
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
i can think of someone.

Being critical of a guy that's costing the team $125M and had 5+ years worth of film is MASSIVELY different than s**tting on a 21 yr old who has 170 random passing attempts.
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Aug 7, 2023 at 7:52 AM ]
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Patton:
Originally posted by 4ML:


Some nice looking throws by Trey in this video!! I hope he shines when he gets on the field!!!

It's wild to see the hatful comments in that tweet. I've never seen someone get hated on so bad by his own fan base. whatever with people outside of the 49er fan base. That's just what football does.

Dude does everything you want your QB to do. He's nothing but professional and supportive of everyone. He puts in all the work you want the QB to do. He sounds like a great all around human being and yet the hate is next level. Pretty f**king pathetic imo.

i can think of someone.

Nobody hated him 4 starts into his career or in the first 3 years of his NFL career.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
i can think of someone.

Being critical of a guy that's costing the team $125M and had 5+ years worth of film is MASSIVELY different than s**tting on a 21 yr old who has 170 random passing attempts.

Calling him trahs is.not.bring critical. s**tting on your own player that has been nothing but a professional, in either case, is horrible.
[ Edited by JoseCortez on Aug 7, 2023 at 7:55 AM ]
Originally posted by genus49:
Nobody hated him 4 starts into his career or in the first 3 years of his NFL career.

Bingo. I said the same s**t when Lance was drafted. I would give him the same time given to Jimmy before becoming super critical of him.

if I'm being truthful he wasn't even my guy through the whole process. It was fields and my mock backs it up. I totally understood the pick and thought there was gonna be some develop for Lance, putting him in a position to win games without having to be an all-star while he's learning.
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Aug 7, 2023 at 8:03 AM ]
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Calling him trahs is.not.bring critical. s**tting on your own player that has been nothing but a professional, in either case, is horrible.

And I've never s**t on Jimmy. I said it was time to move on and here's why…..

he was given years to improve and he never really did.

you hated the pick and have said next to nothing positive about Trey since the day he stepped foot in SF.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by libertyforever:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by libertyforever:
If you see it as just completing a pass, sure.

However, that is not it. For short passes especially, it is important to hit the receiver on stride for YAC.

This also improves exponentially the shorter the pass is. Not sure what u are trying to say.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

U want those short passes to be as perfect as possible, not just catchable. In that sense, I disagree with you.


You want ALL passes to be as perfect as possible,... No?

It is easier to be more accurate the shorter the throw if you look at it like a basketball hoop, but I disagree because the hoop should not be the same size. The longer the throw the more time for the receiver to make adjustments.

I think short passes are as hard as long passes. *The catch* is an example. Joe couldn't even see Dwight when he threw because Ed "too tall" Jones was obscuring his vision. So he threw it blindly.

Another example, Jimmy throwing to (I think) Jeff Wilson to win the cardial game a few years back. Same thing. Jimmy couldn't see Jeff Wilson because a blitz was coming his way and the left tackle obscuring his vision. He just had to trust Jeff was where he was supposed to be and threw it.

Finally these outlet/check down passes are 4th or 5th reads, and they are the last options prior to just bailing out of the pocket. In that sense, their lower priorities tend to make them just as hard to throw as long passes because of all the reads you have to do before reading the short pass option.

You're reaching to make a simple comparison more complicated when it's not.

Hitting a pass further down the field is harder. It takes more arm strength and better accuracy.

Everything you said is even harder for longer passes down the field. If you can't see where you're throwing shorter throws are still easier in those conditions than longer throws.

Now if you want to play it off like shorter passes typically require faster processing and quicker release to be successful that's another thing all together. But when you break it down to simply which throw is easier it is always shorter throws easier than longer ones.

No different than easier to hit a target with a gun a lot closer to you than further away. But if there's someone right on top of you trying to murder you obviously it's more stressful and harder to draw and shoot the attacker vs seeing them come from a distance and having the time to target them and get them from further away.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Patton:
Originally posted by 4ML:


Some nice looking throws by Trey in this video!! I hope he shines when he gets on the field!!!

It's wild to see the hatful comments in that tweet. I've never seen someone get hated on so bad by his own fan base. whatever with people outside of the 49er fan base. That's just what football does.

Dude does everything you want your QB to do. He's nothing but professional and supportive of everyone. He puts in all the work you want the QB to do. He sounds like a great all around human being and yet the hate is next level. Pretty f**king pathetic imo.

i can think of someone.

No kidding right. Some heavy contradiction going on above you Jose.
Originally posted by genus49:
Now if you want to play it off like shorter passes typically require faster processing and quicker release to be successful that's another thing all together. But when you break it down to simply which throw is easier it is always shorter throws easier than longer ones.

Knowing where everyone is at all times, etc.,...sure but different subject.

Fields recognizes that this is the major hole in his game compared to other QBs that can scramble:

"And, you know, once you start hitting those, that completion percentage just shoots up. You get 8 to 10 free completions each game. And I mean, you kind of see the passing game take off from there."

It's a message he reiterated all over Super Bowl media week

"I would say in the short game, in the short passing game," Fields told Rich Eisen when asked to name an area he needs to improve. "Kind of the gimme throws, the run alerts, the bubbles and stuff like that. I feel like I might have gotten too lazy on and just really missed easy throws."

And his favorite part of Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes' game? His 2-yard dump passes.

"I like the way he gets out of the pocket and kind of like does those little like just dump passes," Fields told Kevin Clark on the Slow News Day podcast. "I don't think I've seen as many touchdowns as I've seen this past year on like just those little two-yard dump passes where he's just scrambling outside of the pocket."

There might be something to what Fields is saying. While Fields completed 72.2% of his short passes(0-9 yards), it was his lowest graded depth at 59.3 according to Pro Football Focus. It's also the depth with his lowest passer rating, 82.6.
https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/nfl/chicago-bears/fields-identifies-one-key-area-he-must-improve-in-year-3/344874/


The OP simply discussed "completion" and possible improvement in it vs longer passes.
Originally posted by random49er:
Improving your layup game is easier than improving your 3-pt shooting.
Drew Brees broke the comp % record twice as his passes became shorter, right?
Quarterbacks are throwing the ball quicker than in any era in history. Last season was the first since Pro Football Focus started tracking throwing time in 2011 that no starter took 2.6 seconds or more to throw on 60 percent of his passes. There were 10 quarterbacks who got rid of the ball faster in 2016 than anyone did in 2012. The number of players who have a quarterback rating over 90 on these quick passes has doubled to 20 last season from when the statistic was introduced in 2011.

...Eli Manning led the NFL in percentage of passes thrown in under 2.5 seconds last year after being among the worst in the league four years earlier. Nearly everyone is trending toward shorter passes. In his 230 attempts last season before an injury, Aaron Rodgers was throwing nearly 2 yards fewer per play than he was in 2016, according to AirYards. Joe Flacco is throwing 3 yards fewer in the air per pass than he did in 2012, which seems impossible, but here we are.

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2018/7/30/17629632/two-seconds-or-less-speed-fast-pass-rush-philadelphia-eagles-pittsburgh-steelers

You're not going to find these same types of trends with throwing farther.

Per PFF...

ACCURACY RATE OVER EXPECTED (AROE)
Short Description

Accuracy is an important part of quarterback play, and PFF currently charts ball placement as a part of its grading process. However, it's easier to be accurate when the pass is shorter and the receiver is open, so AROE adjusts for that to give an expected accuracy rate for an average quarterback, given the circumstances.

Long Description
Accuracy rate over expected was again created using an extreme gradient boosting model. The most important factor for determining expected accuracy was the pass depth, as passes with fewer air yards are usually more accurate. Another factor is the standard of coverage, which ranges from the receiver being "wide open" to the coverage being "tight." Using AROE is more predictive than completion percentage over expected (CPOE), as it doesn't need the receiver to complete their side of the pass. The quarterback just has to be accurate.


Going back to whether you are only looking at completion or not.

I don't know if you watch soccer. you can watch US national soccer team, and then the vert top notch soccer team connecting short passes. That is when you realized a short pass reaching the receiver is not enough. You want the pass to be as accurate as possible with the perfect touch (all passes long or short needs to be as accurate as possible) to make it easy for the receiver. The reason those top notch soccer team can connect those short passes with ease is because their passes are so perfect that it make it easier for the receiver to receiver the ball and than make another pass. I wouldn't say those are short passes so they are easy.

I don't know that Drew Brees breaking the comp % supports anything to be honest because he is the outlier. Also, shorter passes have higher accuracy % is actually not the argument. The initial argument was whether it is easier to improve shorter throw vs longer throws.
Is it just me or is this annoying - setting up you up to watch Trey Lance's TD but where the heck is the video? Gotta go fishing for it on that link?

https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/170455-watch-49ers-trey-lance-finishes-strong-day-deep/
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Being critical of a guy that's costing the team $125M and had 5+ years worth of film is MASSIVELY different than s**tting on a 21 yr old who has 170 random passing attempts.

Not really. Especially if you take into account draft picks.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Patton:
Originally posted by 4ML:


Some nice looking throws by Trey in this video!! I hope he shines when he gets on the field!!!

It's wild to see the hatful comments in that tweet. I've never seen someone get hated on so bad by his own fan base. whatever with people outside of the 49er fan base. That's just what football does.

Dude does everything you want your QB to do. He's nothing but professional and supportive of everyone. He puts in all the work you want the QB to do. He sounds like a great all around human being and yet the hate is next level. Pretty f**king pathetic imo.

Yeah, gosh. You'd have to go all the way back to, I don't know, the Jimmy Garoppolo thread, to see anything like it. I swear, the stuff that comes out of your mouth.
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