Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:
Speaking about the SB Window:
so you are happy how your team is evaluating the most important position in football?
are you fully confident that you have seen enough of Purdy to keep him OUT of an competition and hand the job to him?
are you confident it was mainly him who led us to the NFCCG? Did you think the same about jimmy?
And: your team got an basically untestet, raw asset (as we are always told): do you like how the team handles this? Next year they have to decide the 5th year option.

I think they mismanaged the position, and the assets we invested in it, terribly since the '21 draft. What they did before Brock's emergence (really Jimmy's restructuring) made almost zero sense and the results were entirely predictable.

They are showing that they can adjust on the fly, and are not going to chase obsolete thinking from 1-2 plus years ago. They will not chase sunk costs to boost their ego/reputation.

I'm not sold on Brock being a star. I thought Jimmy was an average QB at best. I thought drafting a developmental player who needed playing time at the most important position with enough capital to land an established star, during a Super Bowl window, was foolish. I think they compounded that mistake by handing the guy the job with no competition before he was ready and got him seriously injured in the process. I think they realized this going into the season last year. I think they hit the lottery with Purdy and seemingly found a parachute out of this mess.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Kyle believe Purdy is the real deal, and he choose him as QB1. There is nothing wrong with this decision IMO.

If so, Kyle
misjudged Lance to take him #3 overall
misjudged Beathard
misjudged Purdy (otherwise would have taken way earlier).

I really struggle with Kyle evaluating QBs without seeing them in an extended period of games in the NFL.
Thats where i stand.
I fear we miss out on a special player because Kyle goes with his Jimmy/Cousins "Clone" that he can steer like a doll to be save.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I think they mismanaged the position, and the assets we invested in it, terribly since the '21 draft. What they did before Brock's emergence (really Jimmy's restructuring) made almost zero sense and the results were entirely predictable.

They are showing that they can adjust on the fly, and are not going to chase obsolete thinking from 1-2 plus years ago. They will not chase sunk costs to boost their ego/reputation.

I'm not sold on Brock being a star. I thought Jimmy was an average QB at best. I thought drafting a developmental player who needed playing time at the most important position with enough capital to land an established star, during a Super Bowl window, was foolish. I think they compounded that mistake by handing the guy the job with no competition before he was ready and got him seriously injured in the process. I think they realized this going into the season last year. I think they hit the lottery with Purdy and seemingly found a parachute out of this mess.

i hope this parachute unfolds properly, well see at latest this season.
Ill come back to you afterwards to elaborate on this.

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:
i hope this parachute unfolds properly, well see at latest this season.
Ill come back to you afterwards to elaborate on this.

Me too. It might not, lol. But I have confidence they'll quickly adjust because they've shown they will already.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:
ok, so you want to make sitcom here?
The 49ers would be able to take a deep look inti the box and COMPARE it accordingly to the ship, and AFTERWARDS decide.
What they do: we dont do an assessment, we take the boat after sailing one small turn.
Hopefully we wil not end up with an boat looking pretty above the water, but sinking slowly after it gets tested in the sea without doing an proper assessment.
We very well could end like this:

Kyle saw Trey everyday in practice. While I don't think any outsiders can make a judgement on Trey, I believe Kyle and his coaching staff can make that assessment with good confidence.

In addition, where a player was drafted was a sunk cost at this point. People need to stop falling into the sunk cost fallacy.

Kyle believe Purdy is the real deal, and he choose him as QB1. There is nothing wrong with this decision IMO.

Kyle believes Purdy is ready now. Don't confuse who may be better LONG TERM over ready now. Trey needs time. It appears they are now not ready to wait for their reasons. Many reasons spelled out in these threads. Trey's football IQ or Trey's maturity or Treys leadership did not go away after a handful of games. Go back and watch some of those early Youtube conversations he was having with the press. The kid is pretty frigging well spoken, a beautiful football IQ and mature beyond his years. He also is a big kid with height and athleticism. I bet in a year or so of constentent play he is going to be projecting up.

I love what I saw from Brock. It was awesome. But I am used to the false prophets. I would have to go back and look but I bet some of the same folks here were stating Mullens was the next super star in those early outings.

The 9er fans are so very desperate for the next franchise QB they jump from one to the next like a whore on 3rd street.

Let's see how Brock does but I can most certainly bet you that the things that sold the 9ers on Trey are still there. It's now a timing issue and they can't make another stupid mistake after the three picks and trade the same guy to another team and in very short order becomes a super star they are going to look more stupid then they do now.

Let's just hope it finally does stop with Brock as I am getting sick of this s**t. As far as I am concerned keeping Jimmy as long as they did has set all of this curse upon us. Please let it be over.

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Kyle believe Purdy is the real deal, and he choose him as QB1. There is nothing wrong with this decision IMO.

If so, Kyle
misjudged Lance to take him #3 overall
misjudged Beathard
misjudged Purdy (otherwise would have taken way earlier).

I really struggle with Kyle evaluating QBs without seeing them in an extended period of games in the NFL.
Thats where i stand.
I fear we miss out on a special player because Kyle goes with his Jimmy/Cousins "Clone" that he can steer like a doll to be save.

In what way(s) is Trey "special" but Purdy is a "Jimmy/Cousins clone?" Purdy plays nothing like like Jimmy nor Cousins.

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Kyle believe Purdy is the real deal, and he choose him as QB1. There is nothing wrong with this decision IMO.

If so, Kyle
misjudged Lance to take him #3 overall
misjudged Beathard
misjudged Purdy (otherwise would have taken way earlier).

I really struggle with Kyle evaluating QBs without seeing them in an extended period of games in the NFL.
Thats where i stand.
I fear we miss out on a special player because Kyle goes with his Jimmy/Cousins "Clone" that he can steer like a doll to be save.

On the draft eval, Walsh drafted Montana. He also took Carmazzi, while Tom Brady was avail to select.

Doing an eval on college players, particularly quarterbacks, is notoriously difficult. For all KS's skills, he is a coach first, not a GM.
So if the draft eval on TL went sideways, it's a lil frustrating, yet understandable. I think bringing a former QB into the bldg, in Griese, was an attempt to help the 49ers get better at both identifying and developing QBs. Griese played no small role, in us taking and developing Brock.

Draft eval, you have pretty limited to go off of. But KS is no fool, if TL is special, KS will have plans for him. He invested up to his eyeballs, he wants TL to be 'that guy' as much as anyone. He's just not gonna force it to the detriment of the team, his ultimate mandate, is to do what is best for the team, not what is best for TL. If KS gets rid of TL that probably tells me all I need to know about TL.

Originally posted by 9erson3:
Kyle believes Purdy is ready now. Don't confuse who may be better LONG TERM over ready now. Trey needs time. It appears they are now not ready to wait for their reasons. Many reasons spelled out in these threads. Trey's football IQ or Trey's maturity or Treys leadership did not go away after a handful of games. Go back and watch some of those early Youtube conversations he was having with the press. The kid is pretty frigging well spoken, a beautiful football IQ and mature beyond his years. He also is a big kid with height and athleticism. I bet in a year or so of constentent play he is going to be projecting up.

I love what I saw from Brock. It was awesome. But I am used to the false prophets. I would have to go back and look but I bet some of the same folks here were stating Mullens was the next super star in those early outings.

The 9er fans are so very desperate for the next franchise QB they jump from one to the next like a whore on 3rd street.

Let's see how Brock does but I can most certainly bet you that the things that sold the 9ers on Trey are still there. It's now a timing issue and they make another stupid mistake after the three picks and trade the same guy to another team and in very short order becomes a super star they are going to look more stupid then they do now.

Let's just hope it finally does stop with Brock as I am getting sick of this s**t. As far as I am concerned keeping Jimmy as long as they did has set all of this curse upon us. Please let it be over.

This could be true, but it's pretty unreasonable to believe the 49ers think it's true (at least as it was going into offseason activities).

It's been beaten to death but if you believe you have something special that just needs time to develop, it makes no sense to rob yourself (and the player) of every chance to develop by splitting his development opportunities with a free agent in a competition for backup.

Trey can win this competition and plans can change, but as it is currently?…

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 9erson3:
Kyle believes Purdy is ready now. Don't confuse who may be better LONG TERM over ready now. Trey needs time. It appears they are now not ready to wait for their reasons. Many reasons spelled out in these threads. Trey's football IQ or Trey's maturity or Treys leadership did not go away after a handful of games. Go back and watch some of those early Youtube conversations he was having with the press. The kid is pretty frigging well spoken, a beautiful football IQ and mature beyond his years. He also is a big kid with height and athleticism. I bet in a year or so of constentent play he is going to be projecting up.

I love what I saw from Brock. It was awesome. But I am used to the false prophets. I would have to go back and look but I bet some of the same folks here were stating Mullens was the next super star in those early outings.

The 9er fans are so very desperate for the next franchise QB they jump from one to the next like a whore on 3rd street.

Let's see how Brock does but I can most certainly bet you that the things that sold the 9ers on Trey are still there. It's now a timing issue and they make another stupid mistake after the three picks and trade the same guy to another team and in very short order becomes a super star they are going to look more stupid then they do now.

Let's just hope it finally does stop with Brock as I am getting sick of this s**t. As far as I am concerned keeping Jimmy as long as they did has set all of this curse upon us. Please let it be over.

This could be true, but it's pretty unreasonable to believe the 49ers think it's true (at least as it was going into offseason activities).

It's been beaten to death but if you believe you have something special that just needs time to develop, it makes no sense to rob yourself (and the player) of every chance to develop by splitting his development opportunities with a free agent in a competition for backup.

Trey can win this competition and plans can change, but as it is currently?…

Four injured QBs last year? How can that even be possible? Why are people so hung up on Trey reps going to down stream kid? They just may keep all four. What happened last year can never happen again in this window.

Originally posted by 9erson3:
Four injured QBs last year? How can that even be possible? Why are people so hung up on Trey reps going to down stream kid? They just may keep all four. What happened last year can never happen again in this window.

You can have the four QBs and still maximize Trey's development by giving him every opportunity QB1 doesn't get. It's not happening though. Didn't even need to see the rep split. That was just another piece of evidence to throw on the pile.

And just personally, I don't think they are ever going to sign multiple QBs to plan for what happened to them last year. Kyle spoke to this when there was* a real incentive to say otherwise. I think this situation is simply a product of the starter being injured with an unclear timeline and them hedging Trey.

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:
so we trust the coach who gave up 3 firstrounders for beaker2 and not being able (or willing) to develop him accordingly to jump to beaker1 and tell, without a huge sample size, that he is right this time?
Interesting.

Those were different beakers back then. Draft position means less and less as time passes.
Draft position is an assessment based on incomplete information (because nobody has seen these players actually operate in the NFL).
If you redid both of those drafts, Lance and Purdy would shift positions (in opposite directions) based on what they've done since.

I'm not actually saying that Kyle is getting it right this time, only that the process makes a lot of logical sense.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 9erson3:
Four injured QBs last year? How can that even be possible? Why are people so hung up on Trey reps going to down stream kid? They just may keep all four. What happened last year can never happen again in this window.

You can have the four QBs and still maximize Trey's development by giving him every opportunity QB1 doesn't get. It's not happening though. Didn't even need to see the rep split. That was just another piece of evidence to throw on the pile.

And just personally, I don't think they are ever going to sign multiple QBs to plan for what happened to them last year. Kyle spoke to this when there wasn't a real incentive to say otherwise. I think this situation is simply a product of the starter being injured with an unclear timeline and them hedging Trey.

Sorry but I will just disagree. This roster is stacked to the gills. Maybe the best in all of football outside of QB. I hate the "super bowl" window phrase but this roster will never be stronger than it is now. If you think the NFC championship doesn't eat at their crawl I'd say you are delusional. Everything is about that game whether said in public or not down to number of QBs they hold on to.

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Kyle believe Purdy is the real deal, and he choose him as QB1. There is nothing wrong with this decision IMO.

If so, Kyle
misjudged Lance to take him #3 overall
misjudged Beathard
misjudged Purdy (otherwise would have taken way earlier).

I really struggle with Kyle evaluating QBs without seeing them in an extended period of games in the NFL.
Thats where i stand.
I fear we miss out on a special player because Kyle goes with his Jimmy/Cousins "Clone" that he can steer like a doll to be save.

A draft is always going to be a crapshoot. A college playbook is a very very simple playbook compared to the NFL. So many fans criticize Kyle for not drafting Maholmes. Well it wasn't clear he was going to be a star, otherwise he would have been a number one overall pick. We all knew he can throw the ball amazingly, but playing QB at the NFL is much more than that.

Kyle saw Purdy played 7 games in the NFL, including games against top defense. Kyle was able to assessed Purdy. Purdy was able to execute Kyle's plays and knew where the ball needed to go, and throwing the ball accurately, and improvised when the play breakdown, and not improvise when it was not necessary.

I think often when a young QB start their career well in the NFL, it wasn't necessarily the execution. It was more like the coach made everything simple for the QB. Give him the easy throws, As a result, the raw stats look good, and fan were "excited" with the young QB. And then the player sometimes can't take the next step and execute the full playbook.

It seems like last season Kyle didn't have to limit the playbook to helped Brock, and Brock still executed at a high level, and that was why Kyle believed Brock is the real deal.

Originally posted by 9erson3:
Sorry but I will just disagree. This roster is stacked to the gills. Maybe the best in all of football outside of QB. I hate the "super bowl" window phrase but this roster will never be stronger than it is now. If you think the NFC championship doesn't eat at their crawl I'd say you are delusional. Everything is about that game whether said in public or not down to number of QBs they hold on to.

I think it's another explanation that doesn't adequately account for all the actions they're taking. Only parts.

Obviously I agree that the NFC championship game bothered them in any case. I also think they're probably smart enough to know the chances of winning that game with a 3rd-4th string QB coming in cold is slim to none.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:

Originally posted by libertyforever:
Trey was handed QB1 without a competition last season. The way he was demoted from QB1 to not even QB2, but just competing for QB2 role, that tells me Kyle was very disappointed with Trey last season, in games and training camp.

Brock, on the other hand, has capitalized on every opportunity thrown to him.

Kyle has seen enough of of both Brock and Trey and has decided Brock is the franchise QB. Kyle doesn't owe Trey a so call "fair chance" or whatever that is.

in which games?
I am with you that he was handed QB1 last season too, that does not make the decision better to do it again.
Put Purdy in the games Lance was and Lance in the ones Purdy got (CMC cough cough) and id be interested to see the picture painted in here then.

Again, we never saw them on equal situations, why not just do this?
I remember dropped ints and an offense that clicked when CMC came to the team.
I would not crown Purdy without an real competition.
I am afraid my 49ers will fall short again and missing out on evolving their QB Play beyond what we got from Jimmy.

Kyle is being paid a lot of money to make decisions like this. While I don't think outsiders can evaluate Trey properly with the limited information, but Kyle and his coaches can by seeing him practice everyday. Surely seems like they evaluate Brock to be a much better prospect as a QB in the NFL at this point.

Do you really want a 4 QB race for the QB1 role, all 4 QB have equal opportunities and fair chances to win? I surely don't.

Personally I have all the faith in the world in Brock. He looked like a better version of last year's Jimmy G which was Jimmy's best version and he did it as a rookie vs a seasoned vet.

Could his success be a result of having the talent and scheme around him? Possibly. I hope it's a concern that stays with him his whole career as a 49er cuz it will mean good things for the 49ers.

However saying Kyle is paid lots to make these decisions doesn't guarantee his decision is the right one.

He made the decision to overlook Mahomes and Watson in the 2017 draft because he wanted a known guy like Cousins.

We signed Jimmy to his big deal and didn't draft someone like Josh Allen.

We didn't sign Tom Brady thinking Jimmy was better.

Now personally I didn't disagree with those decisions at the time but I'm also not a highly paid and respected NFL HC. So Kyle isn't infallible.

And we've seen very recently that coaches who see these guys in the building don't always know what they have either considering the Eagles we're about to replace Jalen Hurts with Russell Wilson before Wilson vetoed the trade. Anyone recall how Hurts looked last season? And he had way more tape to go off of than Trey.

So we better hope Kyle gets this QB decision right and we aren't looking back in 3-4 years and saying it made sense at the time but we made the wrong choice again.