Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Propping up Lance? All anyone is asking is to:

-give the kid a fair shake
-to offer him the same benefit of the doubt after 4 starts that posters like you give Jimmy after 8 years (5 in this system).
-to not make definitive claims one way or the other as to what he is or will be
-to not repeatedly exaggerate what the people who want Trey to be given a chance are actually saying (i.e "acting like Deebo, Juice, and Aiyuk, and Kyle are just chopped liver")

No one knows what Lance is or will be. I dont think what I just said is asking too much.

- I haven't called him a bust
- Jimmy balled out right off the bat, just like Purdy, and in his first full season helped the niners go to a SB. So, it was easy to give him benefit of the doubt thereafter, unless you disliked him just because. When Lance starts to show me some good play like Jimmy and Purdy has, then I'll give him more benefit of the doubt. I don't see why that's difficult to grasp.
- again, I have never made definitive claims. Never said he's a bust or can't get better.
- I'm not exaggerating anything. These are arguments some have made. How else is anyone suppose to take them other posters trying to minimize the team in order to prop up Lance

lance could get better or he may not. We don't know. All I've ever said is that his overall play has not been good, thus far.


we also know that Kyle has way more info from Lance than 4 games. So he'll have a better idea of what Lance might or might not be.

You may or may not have used the term bust. But you have been very negative with your posts about him, not only currently but moving forward. I didn dislike Jimmy from the start. Like most, I was really excited about him. Then he got hurt the next year. Then was disappointing the following year and I soured on him....which is fair. I disagree with you on who should get more of the benefit of the doubt/excuses. I would always give the young guy who is learning the game more of a chance than the vet who was in the system for 5 years.

As far as you not exaggerating anything, I literally put an example in the post you are replying to of an extreme exaggeration that you just made, so forgive me if I am dismissing the idea that you dont exaggerate.

Thanks for agreeing that no one knows much about Lance. Kyle knows most, but what he knows he doesnt say. So I am glad we are on the same page that people who claim they know anything about what Lance is or can be is full of s**t.

I have never called him a bust.

it's understandable to have a negative view on Lance based on his play, just as it's understandable to have a positive view of Purdy based on his. Or at least I would think so.

im more of the opinion of giving players that have shown good stretch of play benefit of the doubt over players that have failed to do so. I will give Purdy or Jimmy benefit of the doubt because they earn that right off the bat. A player like Kinlaw and Lance not so much. You got to show me.

How am I exaggerating? When a poster says that QB didn't look good because he didn't have CMC and Kittle, it comes off real dismissive of other players like Deebo, Aiyuk, Juice. Basically saying, they are not enough. Hence, chop liver comment.

Yeah, we can only give our opinion based on what we see and actions Kyle and team take. As far as I know, no one has credentials.

Originally posted by Montana:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Furlow:
Posters were openly rooting against Jimmy. They literally said those words lol stop it. "I want the Niners to win, but I also want Jimmy to suck so that we move on from him."

Also:

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go further back, but there are plenty of posts like this. They may not like Trey more than the Niners, but some people prioritize being "right," over their fandom of the team. And their posts reflect that, so it's natural that people view them as being more of a fan of Trey than the Niners. Let's not act like this is some crazy thought.

I remember that.

Some were gleeful when we lost to the Rams because they thought it was the end of that QB. Only for 2022 to happen. Oops…

also, there was a poster openly hoping for Purdy to be still injured until after week 8 to see give Lance a shot. If that ain't putting Lance above the rest of the team then I don't know what is.

Ppl can be purdy dumb.

I Agree

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Propping up Lance? All anyone is asking is to:

-give the kid a fair shake
-to offer him the same benefit of the doubt after 4 starts that posters like you give Jimmy after 8 years (5 in this system).
-to not make definitive claims one way or the other as to what he is or will be
-to not repeatedly exaggerate what the people who want Trey to be given a chance are actually saying (i.e "acting like Deebo, Juice, and Aiyuk, and Kyle are just chopped liver")

No one knows what Lance is or will be. I dont think what I just said is asking too much.

- I haven't called him a bust
- Jimmy balled out right off the bat, just like Purdy, and in his first full season helped the niners go to a SB. So, it was easy to give him benefit of the doubt thereafter, unless you disliked him just because. When Lance starts to show me some good play like Jimmy and Purdy has, then I'll give him more benefit of the doubt. I don't see why that's difficult to grasp.
- again, I have never made definitive claims. Never said he's a bust or can't get better.
- I'm not exaggerating anything. These are arguments some have made. How else is anyone suppose to take them other posters trying to minimize the team in order to prop up Lance

lance could get better or he may not. We don't know. All I've ever said is that his overall play has not been good, thus far.


we also know that Kyle has way more info from Lance than 4 games. So he'll have a better idea of what Lance might or might not be.

You may or may not have used the term bust. But you have been very negative with your posts about him, not only currently but moving forward. I didn dislike Jimmy from the start. Like most, I was really excited about him. Then he got hurt the next year. Then was disappointing the following year and I soured on him....which is fair. I disagree with you on who should get more of the benefit of the doubt/excuses. I would always give the young guy who is learning the game more of a chance than the vet who was in the system for 5 years.

As far as you not exaggerating anything, I literally put an example in the post you are replying to of an extreme exaggeration that you just made, so forgive me if I am dismissing the idea that you dont exaggerate.

Thanks for agreeing that no one knows much about Lance. Kyle knows most, but what he knows he doesnt say. So I am glad we are on the same page that people who claim they know anything about what Lance is or can be is full of s**t.

I have never called him a bust.

it's understandable to have a negative view on Lance based on his play, just as it's understandable to have a positive view of Purdy based on his. Or at least I would think so.

im more of the opinion of giving players that have shown good stretch of play benefit of the doubt over players that have failed to do so. I will give Purdy or Jimmy benefit of the doubt because they earn that right off the bat. A player like Kinlaw and Lance not so much. You got to show me.

How am I exaggerating? When a poster says that QB didn't look good because he didn't have CMC and Kittle, it comes off real dismissive of other players like Deebo, Aiyuk, Juice. Basically saying, they are not enough. Hence, chop liver comment.

Yeah, we can only give our opinion based on what we see and actions Kyle and team take. As far as I know, no one has credentials.

Pin this post to the top of every page of this thread.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Well again, I was being very generic for simplicity sake and I'm not trying to strawman you.

Trey sucks *currently*… is that more accurate? Because other than the word "sucks" which I'm not claiming you said verbatim, or that you think Trey can't develop into a good player down the line, just that you claimed the team was "hedging their bets" after seeing Trey in camp, in which your presume the performance by Trey was poor, correct?

This is what my point is…

No one actually knows what was said in that meeting or why it took place, no one knows why we actually signed Sam, or what happened during the draft process where the media assumed we wanted Mac Jones. Everyone on this site just has their own blind opinion.

I just want to create a hard line between what's factual, testable, confirmable, vs what's just an opinion. I'm tired of the constant bickering in this thread.. which is why I haven't posted much recently.

But I would love it if we can keep the opinions as opinions, facts as facts, and tribalism at a minimum.

I think there's still a ton of dishonesty in here. And I wish people could acknowledge that there's been excuses made for all QBs, bad takes made against all QBs, and the common denominator is they're 49ers QBs. That's it.

Do you really think we can't decipher why the team signed Sam Darnold at this point? Or at least have a very good inclination for why we did?

To me, this kind of statement (nobody knows why we signed Sam Darnold) is a way for people to dodge uncomfortable or disagreeable realities instead of offering a reasonable and emotion free argument based on available information. Saying we signed Sam Darnold to compete for the QB2 job with Trey Lance is far from a blind opinion at this point. It's an opinion supported in evidence and has effectively been confirmed by both the statements and actions of our team.

It doesn't ultimately matter what I think. I just don't see the evidence that signing Sam automatically means the team is down on Trey. To me, the signing was about injuries, the new rule change, and the fact that Trey is such an unknown. Which isn't the same thing as you're suggesting.

At the same time I'm not claiming to be more right than you… I'm arguing that it's unknowable.

Which is the general stance I've had about Trey all along.

I've argued against people saying starting Trey his rookie season would have resulted in missing the playoffs, not because I know he would have made the playoffs, but that there's not enough date to prove either opinion.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Furlow:
Posters were openly rooting against Jimmy. They literally said those words lol stop it. "I want the Niners to win, but I also want Jimmy to suck so that we move on from him."

Also:

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go further back, but there are plenty of posts like this. They may not like Trey more than the Niners, but some people prioritize being "right," over their fandom of the team. And their posts reflect that, so it's natural that people view them as being more of a fan of Trey than the Niners. Let's not act like this is some crazy thought.

I remember that.

Some were gleeful when we lost to the Rams because they thought it was the end of that QB. Only for 2022 to happen. Oops…

also, there was a poster openly hoping for Purdy to be still injured until after week 8 to see give Lance a shot. If that ain't putting Lance above the rest of the team then I don't know what is.

Oh that's right! Damn who the heck was that. Good one. I'm sure plenty more examples.

And what if that person genuinely believes Lance could be better than Purdy? Thats putting the player over the team too? The only player in sports history I have ever seen have people being more of a fan of the player than the team is Lebron James. We are all Niner fans. Not everyone is going to agree what the best way to make our favorite team a consistent winner is.

Personally, I just want a franchise QB that our whole fanbase (ok, the majority of our fanbase) can be all in on. We havent had that since Steve Young. I dont really care if its Purdy, Trey or someone else. I dont know any of these guys personally, so as long as our QB is good, thats fine by me.

To hope that a player remains injured so that another player gets a shot is weak. Should be hoping they are both healthy and Lance balls out and takes it from him.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Bingo!

many believed that he could step right in and at the very least provide what Jimmy did (to your point downplaying what he actually brought) while developing into an elite QB like Josh Allen/Mahomes.

From the few games we've seen, other than a 1.5qtrs, we know that's not been the case. Offense has looked discombobulated, to put it nicely.

Now, Brock on the other hand, WAS able to provide what Jimmy did right off the bat, and more, while developing into the elite/FQB we've been so searching for.

Many believed this because our team was good enough where we didn't need a QB to play like Mahomes/Josh Allen right away.

The problem is due to unforeseen or uncontrollable circumstances Trey did not get to play with the team at its best. The one game we saw him start in that wasn't marred by injuries to key players or had terrible field conditions was the game that people like to dismiss because it was the Texans.

Brock came in and showed a grasp of the offense and made things look easy but he also had a lot more experience to build on and got to come in when the roster was in the midst of an impressive win streak and added a mega piece in CMC as the final infinity stone to the offensive gauntlet.

Sure we can say that Trey never looked as comfortable as Brock but we also don't have a picture of Brock in a game without CMC and Kittle to know if he'd still look great or not.

Personally I want to make sure the team does everything it can to ensure that whomever they go with IS the best guy for this team. Short term and long term. That evaluation is critical by comparing the two QBs on the same field, with the same players in the same plays.

I hope Brock is 100% healthy as soon as possible so we can have that evaluation. I'm rooting for both guys but I absolutely want to see both of them again in similar circumstances.

Great post. As much as I believe a lot of this post to be common sense, we have a large portion of posters on this board who needs to read this.

I'm sure Kyle will take all these excuses….err I mean common sense into account and make Lance QB1 for the season. If anyone knows that Lance issues are due to the team sucking around him, and not Lance himself, it's Kyle.

Kyle made Lance QB1 last seaosn, so this sarcastic and emotionally driven post isnt really making the point you think it is. Also, no one every said the team sucked around him, but you know that.

"Sarcastic and emotionally driven post" that's rich coming from you.

So I'm sure he'll make him starter again. What has changed regarding the way kyle views his Lance? broken ankle and plenty of time to rehab shouldn't change much for a QB.

Yes, the offense and defense have been blamed for failing him.

What's changed is Brock Purdy.

My posts aren't emotionally driven. Give me a break.

But, wouldn't Kyle see that Purdy is a noodle arm QB that benefited from a hot team and weapons like CMC and Kittle? Wouldn't he see that Lance is the QB with elite traits that was held back by inferior weapons to that of Purdy and failing defense? Hmm…

Pretty evident just from this exchange whose posts are emotionally driven. Who is saying Purdy has a noodle arm?

That's emotionally driven but not your recent posts?

And yeah, nobody has called brocks arm a noodle, subpar, or mediocre at best. okay sure…

Emotionalism, sarcasm AND whataboutism? LMAO you scored your entire quota in 1 post.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
When we signed him we had Brock Purdy recovering from a major arm injury, and Trey recovering from a major leg injury. It is just as logical (if not much more) to argue that we signed him because of HUGE question marks with Purdy and Trey's injury status + insurance policies than to just say "kyle wasnt happy with Trey, so we signed him."

My guy, when a QB is signed to insure against injury of a higher ranking player they don't split reps with that player when they're healthy in camp. Not to mention the fact that Trey's medical prognosis was well known and not a secret going forward.

This explanation (that we were worried about injury of both Purdy and Lance) does not account for a key action the team is taking. That should tell you something, in addition to the other available evidence.

This.

Also, heard a good point on the radio. Does it makes sense for Darnold to sign on first day of FA as QB3, when there are other opportunities to compete for QB1 or QB2? No, unless he knew he'd have a chance here as well.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Furlow:
Posters were openly rooting against Jimmy. They literally said those words lol stop it. "I want the Niners to win, but I also want Jimmy to suck so that we move on from him."

Also:

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go further back, but there are plenty of posts like this. They may not like Trey more than the Niners, but some people prioritize being "right," over their fandom of the team. And their posts reflect that, so it's natural that people view them as being more of a fan of Trey than the Niners. Let's not act like this is some crazy thought.

I remember that.

Some were gleeful when we lost to the Rams because they thought it was the end of that QB. Only for 2022 to happen. Oops…

also, there was a poster openly hoping for Purdy to be still injured until after week 8 to see give Lance a shot. If that ain't putting Lance above the rest of the team then I don't know what is.

Oh that's right! Damn who the heck was that. Good one. I'm sure plenty more examples.

And what if that person genuinely believes Lance could be better than Purdy? Thats putting the player over the team too? The only player in sports history I have ever seen have people being more of a fan of the player than the team is Lebron James. We are all Niner fans. Not everyone is going to agree what the best way to make our favorite team a consistent winner is.

Personally, I just want a franchise QB that our whole fanbase (ok, the majority of our fanbase) can be all in on. We havent had that since Steve Young. I dont really care if its Purdy, Trey or someone else. I dont know any of these guys personally, so as long as our QB is good, thats fine by me.

Dude there were literally people who left this forum to be Chiefs fans when Alex Smith left. ALEX SMITH. Who I like a lot by the way, but would never put before the Niners. Fans are emotional and get connected to certain players for whatever reason. Not every fan connects the same way to their teams. Weird hill to die on, bro.

True. Whatever happen to Oldman?

Couldn't imagine anyone giving up their niners fandom for Alex Smith lol

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by NDSU:
I really hope Lance goes to ATL.
It will be hilarious if Brock turns out to be like Foles who caught lightning in a bottle for a short time, then reverted back to mediocre.
If Lance kills it in Atlanta this thread will become historically funny.

Sadly it's only a matter of time until "The Faithful" turn on Brock.

Sadly some seem to be more fans of a player than the team...

Why is giving a player a chance to prove what he can do on the field being more a fan of him than the team? Especially one the team spent so much capital on? Isn't it more detrimental to that team to simply discard the player and forget about all that capital?

There isn't a single poster on this board who is more of a fan of Trey Lance than the 49ers. Just a ridiculous claim.

1000% sure. Its a baseless claim. Similar to ones used where people claim there is a faction of Niner fans rooting against _____(insert 49ers player here)____.

Posters were openly rooting against Jimmy. They literally said those words lol stop it. "I want the Niners to win, but I also want Jimmy to suck so that we move on from him."

Also:

Originally posted by NDSU:
I really hope Lance goes to ATL.
It will be hilarious if Brock turns out to be like Foles who caught lightning in a bottle for a short time, then reverted back to mediocre.
If Lance kills it in Atlanta this thread will become historically funny.

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go further back, but there are plenty of posts like this. They may not like Trey more than the Niners, but some people prioritize being "right," over their fandom of the team. And their posts reflect that, so it's natural that people view them as being more of a fan of Trey than the Niners. Let's not act like this is some crazy thought.

Lol so your evidence of 49ers fans wanting what's best for Trey is a guy who's name is CLEARLY NDSU?

That's the best you could do?

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
When we signed him we had Brock Purdy recovering from a major arm injury, and Trey recovering from a major leg injury. It is just as logical (if not much more) to argue that we signed him because of HUGE question marks with Purdy and Trey's injury status + insurance policies than to just say "kyle wasnt happy with Trey, so we signed him."

My guy, when a QB is signed to insure against injury of a higher ranking player they don't split reps with that player when they're healthy in camp. Not to mention the fact that Trey's medical prognosis was well known and not a secret going forward.

This explanation (that we were worried about injury of both Purdy and Lance) does not account for a key action the team is taking. That should tell you something, in addition to the other available evidence.

This.

Also, heard a good point on the radio. Does it makes sense for Darnold to sign on first day of FA as QB3, when there are other opportunities to compete for QB1 or QB2? No, unless he knew he'd have a chance here as well.

Is it not fair to argue that maybe Sam wanted to be here more than securing a starting position? I mean, even if you ignore our consistent history of injuries at the QB position, Sam has been desperate to find a quality offensive scheme since he entered the league. He's been on podcasts raving about our organization before he got here.

Also, maybe his intel said there's a chance he could start, but does that automatically mean that Kyle and John told him he would? Or would be QB2 even?

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by NDSU:
I really hope Lance goes to ATL.
It will be hilarious if Brock turns out to be like Foles who caught lightning in a bottle for a short time, then reverted back to mediocre.
If Lance kills it in Atlanta this thread will become historically funny.

Sadly it's only a matter of time until "The Faithful" turn on Brock.

Sadly some seem to be more fans of a player than the team...

Why is giving a player a chance to prove what he can do on the field being more a fan of him than the team? Especially one the team spent so much capital on? Isn't it more detrimental to that team to simply discard the player and forget about all that capital?

There isn't a single poster on this board who is more of a fan of Trey Lance than the 49ers. Just a ridiculous claim.

1000% sure. Its a baseless claim. Similar to ones used where people claim there is a faction of Niner fans rooting against _____(insert 49ers player here)____.

Posters were openly rooting against Jimmy. They literally said those words lol stop it. "I want the Niners to win, but I also want Jimmy to suck so that we move on from him."

Also:

Originally posted by NDSU:
I really hope Lance goes to ATL.
It will be hilarious if Brock turns out to be like Foles who caught lightning in a bottle for a short time, then reverted back to mediocre.
If Lance kills it in Atlanta this thread will become historically funny.

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go further back, but there are plenty of posts like this. They may not like Trey more than the Niners, but some people prioritize being "right," over their fandom of the team. And their posts reflect that, so it's natural that people view them as being more of a fan of Trey than the Niners. Let's not act like this is some crazy thought.

Lol so your evidence of 49ers fans wanting what's best for Trey is a guy who's name is CLEARLY NDSU?

That's the best you could do?

We've already cited a few more. Catch up.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Emotionalism, sarcasm AND whataboutism? LMAO you scored your entire quota in 1 post.

Move along, let the adults talk football.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
It doesn't ultimately matter what I think. I just don't see the evidence that signing Sam automatically means the team is down on Trey. To me, the signing was about injuries, the new rule change, and the fact that Trey is such an unknown. Which isn't the same thing as you're suggesting.

At the same time I'm not claiming to be more right than you… I'm arguing that it's unknowable.

Which is the general stance I've had about Trey all along.

I've argued against people saying starting Trey his rookie season would have resulted in missing the playoffs, not because I know he would have made the playoffs, but that there's not enough date to prove either opinion.

Is saying the team signed Sam to compete with Trey in order to give us a better chance at having a quality QB2 really that different from saying Trey is unknown? To expand, I definitely disagree that we have no idea what Trey has been to this point, and I fully believe two full years with the team is going to give the team a good idea what they have regardless of regular season time, but I also acknowledge that we don't know what, if any, improvements Trey will have made by the start of the season. The team made a move to give them flexibility in an unknown situation (Purdy's health, Trey's ability). Trey could simply beat Sam out for the job going forward. It's something the team couldn't know in advance and they're protecting themselves. It's not complicated and it was easy to see coming.

I totally understand your hesitation to derive conclusions from limited data. What I don't understand is a willingness to disregard evidence completely, even if it might not give a full picture, especially when you did in fact form your own opinion that proved incorrect. It's time to reevaluate in that case, not make the case that something is unknowable.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Furlow:
Posters were openly rooting against Jimmy. They literally said those words lol stop it. "I want the Niners to win, but I also want Jimmy to suck so that we move on from him."

Also:

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go further back, but there are plenty of posts like this. They may not like Trey more than the Niners, but some people prioritize being "right," over their fandom of the team. And their posts reflect that, so it's natural that people view them as being more of a fan of Trey than the Niners. Let's not act like this is some crazy thought.

I remember that.

Some were gleeful when we lost to the Rams because they thought it was the end of that QB. Only for 2022 to happen. Oops…

also, there was a poster openly hoping for Purdy to be injured until week 8 to give Lance a shot. If that ain't putting Lance above the rest of the team then I don't know what is.

Who?

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
When we signed him we had Brock Purdy recovering from a major arm injury, and Trey recovering from a major leg injury. It is just as logical (if not much more) to argue that we signed him because of HUGE question marks with Purdy and Trey's injury status + insurance policies than to just say "kyle wasnt happy with Trey, so we signed him."

My guy, when a QB is signed to insure against injury of a higher ranking player they don't split reps with that player when they're healthy in camp. Not to mention the fact that Trey's medical prognosis was well known and not a secret going forward.

This explanation (that we were worried about injury of both Purdy and Lance) does not account for a key action the team is taking. That should tell you something, in addition to the other available evidence.

This.

Also, heard a good point on the radio. Does it makes sense for Darnold to sign on first day of FA as QB3, when there are other opportunities to compete for QB1 or QB2? No, unless he knew he'd have a chance here as well.

Is it not fair to argue that maybe Sam wanted to be here more than securing a starting position? I mean, even if you ignore our consistent history of injuries at the QB position, Sam has been desperate to find a quality offensive scheme since he entered the league. He's been on podcasts raving about our organization before he got here.

Also, maybe his intel said there's a chance he could start, but does that automatically mean that Kyle and John told him he would? Or would be QB2 even?

It's also fair to think Darnold considered that as well.

it's also reasonable to think he was told he'd have a chance to compete.

oh, I'm sure he wasn't given definite title.