Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:
So much for the Trey Lance thread. Sure wish there was a thread in the forum where people could discuss Jimmy Garoppolo things.

People have to be dense to see that Jimmy and Trey are not connected in conversation. The conversation was about what Jimmy can do but Trey can not.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Didn't someone say Jimmy's 2019 conversion rate was similar to Mullen's 2020 rate?

Was that Steve ot NY?

Those rates are not similar at all, lol.

What I said was the difference is 3rd down conversion rate is not even close to as big as the difference in talent between the two QBs. Since Jimmy is way better than Mullens, it would be logical to assume that the difference in conversion rates should be just as big.....and they arent. The conclusion I came to, which you and others are spinning, is that because such a big talent gap is not resulting in a similarly large difference in conversion rates, there must be some outside factor.....Kyle Shanahan.

Which circles back around to the main crux of this debate.....why some feel that Lance wouldnt be able to have success starting immediately. He would have good weapons around him, as well as a brilliant playcaller who would make things as easy on him as he does on Jimmy.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
People have to be dense to see that Jimmy and Trey are not connected in conversation. The conversation was about what we know Jimmy can do but don't know if Trey can or not.

FTFY

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
What I said was the difference is 3rd down conversion rate is not even close to as big as the difference in talent between the two QBs. Since Jimmy is way better than Mullens, it would be logical to assume that the difference in conversion rates should be just as big.....and they arent. The conclusion I came to, which you and others are spinning, is that because such a big talent gap is not resulting in a similarly large difference in conversion rates, there must be some outside factor.....Kyle Shanahan.

Which circles back around to the main crux of this debate.....why some feel that Lance wouldnt be able to have success starting immediately. He would have good weapons around him, as well as a brilliant playcaller who would make things as easy on him as he does on Jimmy.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Average yards to go on 3rd down:
Jimmy 2019: 7.6 (51% conversion)

Mullens 2020: 7.0 (43% conversion)
Jimmy 2020: 7.4 (43% conversion)

Another thing to consider is garbage time. When the team was losing by 10 in the 4th Qtr, Mullens was converting at 73% in 2020. In any other game situation, he converted 36%.

I'd say a 15% difference is big.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
People have to be dense to see that Jimmy and Trey are not connected in conversation. The conversation was about what we know Jimmy can do but don't know if Trey can or not.

FTFY

Ok? So they are still connected and related.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
What I said was the difference is 3rd down conversion rate is not even close to as big as the difference in talent between the two QBs. Since Jimmy is way better than Mullens, it would be logical to assume that the difference in conversion rates should be just as big.....and they arent. The conclusion I came to, which you and others are spinning, is that because such a big talent gap is not resulting in a similarly large difference in conversion rates, there must be some outside factor.....Kyle Shanahan.

Which circles back around to the main crux of this debate.....why some feel that Lance wouldnt be able to have success starting immediately. He would have good weapons around him, as well as a brilliant playcaller who would make things as easy on him as he does on Jimmy.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Average yards to go on 3rd down:
Jimmy 2019: 7.6 (51% conversion)

Mullens 2020: 7.0 (43% conversion)
Jimmy 2020: 7.4 (43% conversion)

Another thing to consider is garbage time. When the team was losing by 10 in the 4th Qtr, Mullens was converting at 73% in 2020. In any other game situation, he converted 36%.

I'd say a 15% difference is big.

And I'd say you are manipulating the stats to fit your agenda. Why not use 51 and 43?

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Didn't someone say Jimmy's 2019 conversion rate was similar to Mullen's 2020 rate?

Was that Steve ot NY?

Those rates are not similar at all, lol.

What I said was the difference is 3rd down conversion rate is not even close to as big as the difference in talent between the two QBs. Since Jimmy is way better than Mullens, it would be logical to assume that the difference in conversion rates should be just as big.....and they arent. The conclusion I came to, which you and others are spinning, is that because such a big talent gap is not resulting in a similarly large difference in conversion rates, there must be some outside factor.....Kyle Shanahan.

Which circles back around to the main crux of this debate.....why some feel that Lance wouldnt be able to have success starting immediately. He would have good weapons around him, as well as a brilliant playcaller who would make things as easy on him as he does on Jimmy.

You said they were "similar".

Lance will start as soon as Kyle thinks he gives the 49ers as.much of a chance to win as Jimmy (or if Jimmy goes down). I will be tickled if that times comes sooner than later due to Lance impressing Shanny.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

What I said was the difference is 3rd down conversion rate is not even close to as big as the difference in talent between the two QBs. Since Jimmy is way better than Mullens, it would be logical to assume that the difference in conversion rates should be just as big.....and they arent. The conclusion I came to, which you and others are spinning, is that because such a big talent gap is not resulting in a similarly large difference in conversion rates, there must be some outside factor.....Kyle Shanahan.

Which circles back around to the main crux of this debate.....why some feel that Lance wouldnt be able to have success starting immediately. He would have good weapons around him, as well as a brilliant playcaller who would make things as easy on him as he does on Jimmy.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Average yards to go on 3rd down:
Jimmy 2019: 7.6 (51% conversion)

Mullens 2020: 7.0 (43% conversion)
Jimmy 2020: 7.4 (43% conversion)

Another thing to consider is garbage time. When the team was losing by 10 in the 4th Qtr, Mullens was converting at 73% in 2020. In any other game situation, he converted 36%.

I'd say a 15% difference is big.

And I'd say you are manipulating the stats to fit your agenda. Why not use 51 and 43?

51 >>>>> 43

It is a massive gap. Where did each of them rank?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
one winning year in 7 years, but you are trying to make it a quick 8.. not sure what 7, 6 etc years ago has to do with this team or regime today

Smith can't run an offense, Fitz.. can't even call a team his home. Goff .. Dalton.. really. If they could really be system QBs they wouldn't be where they are now

Jimmy actually won before the 49ers since you forgot and has won with the 49ers. Giving us our only winning season in 7 years remember.

This whole Kyle chose Lance thing you got is Woo'ish.. But i think Kyle wouldn't choose anyone who he thought couldn't play

Tutelage is dumb?, but you think that same tutelage that he has been doing since may is great and good enough to start... but if he had more time with the staff he will get worse. not sure how that adds up.

Jimmy plays until he can't play anymore. ease in Lance. Simple

So you automatically assume we will have a losing season with Lance? That's a bit much imo. Outside of not having live reps, running this exact scheme, there isn't a throw or play that Jimmy can do that Lance can't do.

fine I'll leave out the past regime, under kyle one winning season.

im sorry why can't Alex run a NFL offense lol? Dude has over 100 career wins and played in the league for 14yrs. IF fitz was incapable of running a NFL offense he wouldn't be in his 16th yr in the league.

Dalton has won plenty of games in his career, same with Goff. They're system QBs, issue is their past team wanted more…it's not like they didn't get paid a f**k ton of cash at one point. They can run a NFL offense and do what you ask, if pressure or play making is needed outside of that then they're f**ked. It's the same with Jimmy.

OH right right right Jimmy won what? one and a half games before coming here? Please. Stop it. He got thrown out there mid 2017 with less than 100 career passing attempts in 3 yrs, no clue how to run this offense, & played his best football.

where did I say he gets worse? Don't put words in my mouth…I'm saying you're exaggerating the development process during in a NFL season. You're acting like Lance has been sitting on his butt eating Cheetos since September. He's been doing more as far as development in a years worth of football, then what he would be doing on a bench during a season.

If sitting a 1st rd rookie lead to a higher success rate then every single team would do it. We all know that's simply not true.

If lance looks the part, he plays and really there's not much Jimmy can do about it….just like mike garofalo said.

"Hard to get better at football…by not playing football"

I'm surprised NY. stating opinion as fact in much if not all of your rebutal here

Winning seasons and rookie QBs. No rookie has started the season and came close to winning a Super bowl. its just how it is. the odds are against you.

Alex Smith, please Fitz & co can't even stay on a team. If they could run systems.. then there wouldn't be a need to make a change

If you want to prop up wins like you did with Smith, why discredit Jimmy wins before he got to SF.. he balled out in those games. It's not like he could get more playing time over Tom Brady.

As for the worse part... i can put those words in your mouth. your whole argument here is lance playing real games to get better. so if he's not getting better by playing real games than that means he's getting worse.

here's your contradictory part, "He's been doing more as far as development in a years worth of football, then what he would be doing on a bench during a season." So he's gotten better by not playing real football, but some how he will get worse doing the same if didn't start games this year. Are you saying he will just be sitting on his butt the whole time eating cheetos now that he's on the 49ers ? lol

Success rate for that rookie year is by far is not high at all. the amount of busts that get created for starting rookie QB is higher also

it is hard to get better, but this isn't Lances time. When Jimmy is done..It's Trey Area !

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
What I said was the difference is 3rd down conversion rate is not even close to as big as the difference in talent between the two QBs. Since Jimmy is way better than Mullens, it would be logical to assume that the difference in conversion rates should be just as big.....and they arent. The conclusion I came to, which you and others are spinning, is that because such a big talent gap is not resulting in a similarly large difference in conversion rates, there must be some outside factor.....Kyle Shanahan.

Which circles back around to the main crux of this debate.....why some feel that Lance wouldnt be able to have success starting immediately. He would have good weapons around him, as well as a brilliant playcaller who would make things as easy on him as he does on Jimmy.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Average yards to go on 3rd down:
Jimmy 2019: 7.6 (51% conversion)

Mullens 2020: 7.0 (43% conversion)
Jimmy 2020: 7.4 (43% conversion)

Another thing to consider is garbage time. When the team was losing by 10 in the 4th Qtr, Mullens was converting at 73% in 2020. In any other game situation, he converted 36%.

I'd say a 15% difference is big.

And I'd say you are manipulating the stats to fit your agenda. Why not use 51 and 43?

51 >>>>> 43

It is a massive gap. Where did each of them rank?

??? 2019 was a better team,...better squad with minimal injuries.

43% and 43% (with the same team) ='s no gap. That's the most recent data we have on the two. Nothing special, hence, why Kyle chose a new QB.

Originally posted by random49er:
??? 2019 was a better team,...better squad with minimal injuries.

43% and 43% (with the same team) ='s no gap. That's the most recent data we have on the two. Nothing special, hence, why Kyle chose a new QB.

Was 43% to 36% when the game was actually winnable though.

nm

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
I'm surprised NY. stating opinion as fact in much if not all of your rebutal here

It's a message board. These are all opinions unless links and citations are provided.

How mundane would the board be with a "this is my opinion" disclaimer for every single post? If you have a counter-fact,...feel free to provide.

For example,...I'm going to restate the obvious -- that the defense and the elite running game carried that 2019 team to the championship. Here is a link that supports it:



Going to say it again,...the run game was ELITE. You take away a great run game that Kyle seems pretty consistent with providing (thanks Kyle),...and the allure of Jimmy diminishes.

Give him credit for being able to do with a superb running game for play action and a defense that can keep scores low. Hey,...that's commendable.

Just don't pretend that he's been a difference maker while playing here or anything. He hasn't.

Ahh yes. The Trey Lance thread. It's where I go whenever I want to see discussion of Jimmy and Nicks 2020 season.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by random49er:
??? 2019 was a better team,...better squad with minimal injuries.

43% and 43% (with the same team) ='s no gap. That's the most recent data we have on the two. Nothing special, hence, why Kyle chose a new QB.

Was 43% to 36% when the game was actually winnable though.

Lol. You cant be serious by this point, can you? They were both largely ineffective QBs in 2020, hence, Trey Lance.

Why would people compare Jimmy's 2019 season to someone Mullens' 2020 season was the question. Compare Jimmy's 2020 season -- side by side with the same team -- to Mullens' 2020 season.