Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by GoldenFortyNiner:
The real question should be

Can you win games with Lance?

Absolutely, the blueprint is out there. Run the ball (where he is a huge plus) and play defense.

Russell Wilson and Big Ben's rookie and 2nd years showed the way.

Originally posted by genus49:
I do think it's that simple. We have a SB roster right now. It would be incredibly stupid to start a QB the coaches think doesn't give us the best chance to win NOW just to give him starting experience. If you want to play a guy you think will go through growing pains then you don't do it when you have a roster that can go all the way and you have an alternative at QB.

We saw what can happen...we have to take advantage of our roster this year because who knows what FA brings and now we're limited in draft capital to add rookies to help for next few years.

The other factor you have to consider is locker room response. If they see Jimmy and Trey on the same level or Trey looking better than Jimmy then nobody will question the decision to start Lance. But playing Lance when he doesn't look as or better than Jimmy and we bench Jimmy may not sit well with the roster. Some of these guys are on one year deals, some of them are older. They want to win the SB, not worry about giving the rookie starting reps to worry about year or two from now.

Yes…good summation and for all the right reasons. Kyle is nobody's fool, and just because he gave up 2 firsts to get Trey doesn't mean he has to start him. When Trey starts it will be for one reason only…because he earned it. And for those Trey fans that think Trey is going to start, Jimmy has a surprise in store. He's got something special this yr…an OL that can protect him. And JG's one pitfall is injury. With more PP and more time, Jimmy can slice and dice a D…if he isn't getting mauled by an OL that can't PP. Well, this yr he's got PP, and JG is going to turn some heads with his QBing.

I, too, am anxious to see whatTrey brings…but if anyone thinks JG is going to roll over and hand the position to Trey…you're in for a big surprise. Jimmy is a gentleman, but he is also a top flite QB who was just handed a very good OL. As a starter he is what…23-8, or something like that? Given an OL that can PP, look for him to have a great yr.

Trey is an exceptional athlete and has all the tools…but he also has only 5 yrs experience playing football…and 4 of those were in high school. Jimmy has actually had the experience…got us to the SB .But injuries have been his bugaboo. If he stays healthy, and that rebuilt OL protects him, he is going to be very tough for Trey to beat. And simply, that is whatTrey has to do or he won't start.

Lastly, anyone that thinks KYle is giving the job to Trey, is kidding himself. That would not sit well with the team, and Kyle knows it. When Trey is ready, KYle, the team, and fans will know it. Object is to win the SB…and whoever is our best QB gives us the best shot at it. The OL is going to keep our QBs from getting mauled this yr…big advantage for JG…and Trey, too, should he prove himself ready to be the starter.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by GoldenFortyNiner:
The real question should be

Can you win games with Lance?

Absolutely, the blueprint is out there. Run the ball (where he is a huge plus) and play defense.

Russell Wilson and Big Ben's rookie and 2nd years showed the way.

Yup Barrows said SF is looking at running the ball 500+ times this yr. Jimmy was 20th in the league in passing attempts in 2019, we have the recipe to help a young QB get confident and understand the game when it matters most....playing.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yes…good summation and for all the right reasons. Kyle is nobody's fool, and just because he gave up 2 firsts to get Trey doesn't mean he has to start him. When Trey starts it will be for one reason only…because he earned it. And for those Trey fans that think Trey is going to start, Jimmy has a surprise in store. He's got something special this yr…an OL that can protect him. And JG's one pitfall is injury. With more PP and more time, Jimmy can slice and dice a D…if he isn't getting mauled by an OL that can't PP. Well, this yr he's got PP, and JG is going to turn some heads with his QBing.

I, too, am anxious to see whatTrey brings…but if anyone thinks JG is going to roll over and hand the position to Trey…you're in for a big surprise. Jimmy is a gentleman, but he is also a top flite QB who was just handed a very good OL. As a starter he is what…23-8, or something like that? Given an OL that can PP, look for him to have a great yr.

Trey is an exceptional athlete and has all the tools…but he also has only 5 yrs experience playing football…and 4 of those were in high school. Jimmy has actually had the experience…got us to the SB .But injuries have been his bugaboo. If he stays healthy, and that rebuilt OL protects him, he is going to be very tough for Trey to beat. And simply, that is whatTrey has to do or he won't start.

Lastly, anyone that thinks KYle is giving the job to Trey, is kidding himself. That would not sit well with the team, and Kyle knows it. When Trey is ready, KYle, the team, and fans will know it. Object is to win the SB…and whoever is our best QB gives us the best shot at it. The OL is going to keep our QBs from getting mauled this yr…big advantage for JG…and Trey, too, should he prove himself ready to be the starter.

I'm sorry what does Jimmy have? No Jimmy's one pitfall is not just injury....there's absolutely limitations to his game, you can say with more PP every single QB would play better...It's the QB's that actually preform with pressure that are good in the NFL.

It's mind blowing that people complain about not enough experience, then in the same breath don't want him to gain experience He has to play to get better at football (Kyle has said this) what does it matter if it's this year or next? There's gonna be the same bumps in the road regardless. SF is gonna have a good team this yr and next all the same.

Look I'm not saying he should start day 1, BUT if he looks like he can handle the playbook and his mechanics are up to snuff in TC...they should talk to Jimmy about a pay cut, they should have a timeline in place on when the transition might take place. You're acting like he has to beat out freaking Brett Farve, which isn't even remotely true. Jimmy isn't some elite QB, at this point he's a bridge QB that can win some games under structure. He's more Goff/Dalton then some top flight QB....if he was that, teams would be lining up to trade for him.

This sitting for a year thing just because, is silly. They lose a year of a rookie contract, they lose a year of legit development, and they lose more money by keeping Jimmy at that $26M hit. Rookie QBs don't sit for a full year anymore.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by GoldenFortyNiner:
The real question should be

Can you win games with Lance?

Absolutely, the blueprint is out there. Run the ball (where he is a huge plus) and play defense.

Russell Wilson and Big Ben's rookie and 2nd years showed the way.

Yup Barrows said SF is looking at running the ball 500+ times this yr. Jimmy was 20th in the league in passing attempts in 2019, we have the recipe to help a young QB get confident and understand the game when it matters most....playing.

Or it can be done the package way.....If he doesn't win the job, he can still be used in situations where his skills could supplement the offense and add great little wrinkles that the defenses will have to plan for. Could also go the route of how Bill groomed Joe into the league. He was put into situations with a higher probability of success. There are many ways to acclimate a young QB.

To run the ball 500+ times, you have to have a passing game that also converts 3rd downs and is efficient enough to keep the offense scoring points. It all comes to scoring points.....Jimmy really has been the only QB on roster to score enough points to win. Keeping the team in the game makes it all work. It helps take pressure off of the defense and keeps you on schedule enough to continue to feature the run. I've said earlier....If Trey is who we all hope he is, I think this offense will run the ball even more that it has. The threat of the QB run opens everything and should make the ground game more explosive and provide even more Play pass opportunities off of this ground attack. Hopefully Trey proves to be more efficient in deeper throws than the other guys on roster but if we are gonna score the points necessary to compete at the level we want (28+ ppg) he will also have to be efficient in the underneath game because its that portion that comprises over 84%+ of the passing game if you take Kyle's playcalling career into account.

It's all unknown at this point.....In the end, I want Trey to legitimately win the job and not just be given it. If he's ready, that's great and shows signs that he may be the guy we hope he is. If not, I still think he will be a tremendous asset in '21 in a package role while learning and getting acclimated to the pro game.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yes…good summation and for all the right reasons. Kyle is nobody's fool, and just because he gave up 2 firsts to get Trey doesn't mean he has to start him. When Trey starts it will be for one reason only…because he earned it. And for those Trey fans that think Trey is going to start, Jimmy has a surprise in store. He's got something special this yr…an OL that can protect him. And JG's one pitfall is injury. With more PP and more time, Jimmy can slice and dice a D…if he isn't getting mauled by an OL that can't PP. Well, this yr he's got PP, and JG is going to turn some heads with his QBing.

I, too, am anxious to see whatTrey brings…but if anyone thinks JG is going to roll over and hand the position to Trey…you're in for a big surprise. Jimmy is a gentleman, but he is also a top flite QB who was just handed a very good OL. As a starter he is what…23-8, or something like that? Given an OL that can PP, look for him to have a great yr.

Trey is an exceptional athlete and has all the tools…but he also has only 5 yrs experience playing football…and 4 of those were in high school. Jimmy has actually had the experience…got us to the SB .But injuries have been his bugaboo. If he stays healthy, and that rebuilt OL protects him, he is going to be very tough for Trey to beat. And simply, that is whatTrey has to do or he won't start.

Lastly, anyone that thinks KYle is giving the job to Trey, is kidding himself. That would not sit well with the team, and Kyle knows it. When Trey is ready, KYle, the team, and fans will know it. Object is to win the SB…and whoever is our best QB gives us the best shot at it. The OL is going to keep our QBs from getting mauled this yr…big advantage for JG…and Trey, too, should he prove himself ready to be the starter.

I'm sorry what does Jimmy have? No Jimmy's one pitfall is not just injury....there's absolutely limitations to his game, you can say with more PP every single QB would play better...It's the QB's that actually preform with pressure that are good in the NFL.

It's mind blowing that people complain about not enough experience, then in the same breath don't want him to gain experience He has to play to get better at football (Kyle has said this) what does it matter if it's this year or next? There's gonna be the same bumps in the road regardless. SF is gonna have a good team this yr and next all the same.

Look I'm not saying he should start day 1, BUT if he looks like he can handle the playbook and his mechanics are up to snuff in TC...they should talk to Jimmy about a pay cut, they should have a timeline in place on when the transition might take place. You're acting like he has to beat out freaking Brett Farve, which isn't even remotely true. Jimmy isn't some elite QB, at this point he's a bridge QB that can win some games under structure. He's more Goff/Dalton then some top flight QB....if he was that, teams would be lining up to trade for him.

This sitting for a year thing just because, is silly. They lose a year of a rookie contract, they lose a year of legit development, and they lose more money by keeping Jimmy at that $26M hit. Rookie QBs don't sit for a full year anymore.

Utterly silly and um if we want to field the best team right now, Trey needs to be out there. Jimmy hamstrings Kyle's O significantly.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Or it can be done the package way.....If he doesn't win the job, he can still be used in situations where his skills could supplement the offense and add great little wrinkles that the defenses will have to plan for. Could also go the route of how Bill groomed Joe into the league. He was put into situations with a higher probability of success. There are many ways to acclimate a young QB.

To run the ball 500+ times, you have to have a passing game that also converts 3rd downs and is efficient enough to keep the offense scoring points. It all comes to scoring points.....Jimmy really has been the only QB on roster to score enough points to win. Keeping the team in the game makes it all work. It helps take pressure off of the defense and keeps you on schedule enough to continue to feature the run. I've said earlier....If Trey is who we all hope he is, I think this offense will run the ball even more that it has. The threat of the QB run opens everything and should make the ground game more explosive and provide even more Play pass opportunities off of this ground attack. Hopefully Trey proves to be more efficient in deeper throws than the other guys on roster but if we are gonna score the points necessary to compete at the level we want (28+ ppg) he will also have to be efficient in the underneath game because its that portion that comprises over 84%+ of the passing game if you take Kyle's playcalling career into account.

It's all unknown at this point.....In the end, I want Trey to legitimately win the job and not just be given it. If he's ready, that's great and shows signs that he may be the guy we hope he is. If not, I still think he will be a tremendous asset in '21 in a package role while learning and getting acclimated to the pro game.

Good post.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Or it can be done the package way.....If he doesn't win the job, he can still be used in situations where his skills could supplement the offense and add great little wrinkles that the defenses will have to plan for. Could also go the route of how Bill groomed Joe into the league. He was put into situations with a higher probability of success. There are many ways to acclimate a young QB.

To run the ball 500+ times, you have to have a passing game that also converts 3rd downs and is efficient enough to keep the offense scoring points. It all comes to scoring points.....Jimmy really has been the only QB on roster to score enough points to win. Keeping the team in the game makes it all work. It helps take pressure off of the defense and keeps you on schedule enough to continue to feature the run. I've said earlier....If Trey is who we all hope he is, I think this offense will run the ball even more that it has. The threat of the QB run opens everything and should make the ground game more explosive and provide even more Play pass opportunities off of this ground attack. Hopefully Trey proves to be more efficient in deeper throws than the other guys on roster but if we are gonna score the points necessary to compete at the level we want (28+ ppg) he will also have to be efficient in the underneath game because its that portion that comprises over 84%+ of the passing game if you take Kyle's playcalling career into account.

It's all unknown at this point.....In the end, I want Trey to legitimately win the job and not just be given it. If he's ready, that's great and shows signs that he may be the guy we hope he is. If not, I still think he will be a tremendous asset in '21 in a package role while learning and getting acclimated to the pro game.

I don't want Jimmy to be given the job either just because he's making $26M. If the difference in how the offense will be run isn't that great, I would expect Lance to play at some point.

yes Jimmy has been better than backup level QBs here in SF and yes it's all an unknown…for now. We will see. Pumped for TC

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't want Jimmy to be given the job either just because he's making $26M. If the difference in how the offense will be run isn't that great, I would expect Lance to play at some point.

yes Jimmy has been better than backup level QBs here in SF and yes it's all an unknown…for now. We will see. Pumped for TC

All I have ever wanted is for the production we seen with Jimmy to be the floor......If you want to compete for titles you need an offense that scores 28+ ppg for the most part. I really have little doubts that Kyle will know when the time is right. Trey if he hits will be a huge success story in projection given the lack of film reps and what will be a rather sizable step-up in competition level. I love the move at taking a swing for an uber guy but I also love the fact we still have a QB on roster that has given us plus-Level starting play (Jimmy has given us plus level DVOA QB for everything but 2018 if you subscribe to the Football outsiders metrics) . Its the best of both worlds.

I just want to see good football - be it Trey or Jimmy. I just want to be competitive again.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't want Jimmy to be given the job either just because he's making $26M. If the difference in how the offense will be run isn't that great, I would expect Lance to play at some point.

yes Jimmy has been better than backup level QBs here in SF and yes it's all an unknown…for now. We will see. Pumped for TC

All I have ever wanted is for the production we seen with Jimmy to be the floor......If you want to compete for titles you need an offense that scores 28+ ppg for the most part. I really have little doubts that Kyle will know when the time is right. Trey if he hits will be a huge success story in projection given the lack of film reps and what will be a rather sizable step-up in competition level. I love the move at taking a swing for an uber guy but I also love the fact we still have a QB on roster that has given us plus-Level starting play (Jimmy has given us plus level DVOA QB for everything but 2018 if you subscribe to the Football outsiders metrics) . Its the best of both worlds.

PPG is the bottom line. What is Jimmy's for his career????? 28-30 ppg wins the sb with our defense. That average means that we can put up 40 when it counts, in the playoffs

Originally posted by Niners816:
All I have ever wanted is for the production we seen with Jimmy to be the floor......If you want to compete for titles you need an offense that scores 28+ ppg for the most part. I really have little doubts that Kyle will know when the time is right. Trey if he hits will be a huge success story in projection given the lack of film reps and what will be a rather sizable step-up in competition level. I love the move at taking a swing for an uber guy but I also love the fact we still have a QB on roster that has given us plus-Level starting play (Jimmy has given us plus level DVOA QB for everything but 2018 if you subscribe to the Football outsiders metrics) . Its the best of both worlds.

Oh I love the move and have been championing for it since the end of the season.

personally I think Jimmy is a good QB, I do think kyle could get good results from about 15-18 other QBs in the league all the same though. Jimmy shouldn't be the reason we don't play Lance this upcoming season…I would rather Lance gets some legit starting snaps at some point, but we will see.

Originally posted by socal1632:
PPG is the bottom line. What is Jimmy's for his career????? 28-30 ppg wins the sb with our defense. That average means that we can put up 40 when it counts, in the playoffs

Jimmy has averaged around 28 ppg as a starter with us. That number usually gets you knocking at least at a top 5 offensive level points wise and explains our winning percentage with and without him in the lineup the last 4 years. W/O him we are more of a 20-21 ppg offense.

Matt Ryan is the only QB that Kyle has called plays for that scored at a higher clip for at least season sized sample. He was 33-34 ppg and that offense represented a top 10 type historic offense. RGIII his rookie year was 27 ppg. These three have been the most prolific PPG guys Kyle has had as a playcaller.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Niners816:
All I have ever wanted is for the production we seen with Jimmy to be the floor......If you want to compete for titles you need an offense that scores 28+ ppg for the most part. I really have little doubts that Kyle will know when the time is right. Trey if he hits will be a huge success story in projection given the lack of film reps and what will be a rather sizable step-up in competition level. I love the move at taking a swing for an uber guy but I also love the fact we still have a QB on roster that has given us plus-Level starting play (Jimmy has given us plus level DVOA QB for everything but 2018 if you subscribe to the Football outsiders metrics) . Its the best of both worlds.

Oh I love the move and have been championing for it since the end of the season.

personally I think Jimmy is a good QB, I do think kyle could get good results from about 15-18 other QBs in the league all the same though. Jimmy shouldn't be the reason we don't play Lance this upcoming season…I would rather Lance gets some legit starting snaps at some point, but we will see.

I think peak-Jimmy could be a top 10ish QB if he could consistently stay healthy and just improve 5% of or so. The shame is he hasn't been able to stay healthy and its derailed 2 seasons. I also agree that there is a certain level of QB needed for Kyle's offense and the top 15-18 would fall at that level. I think they would all benefit from his playcalling and put forth tremendous years.

I know all the speculation was that Kirk Cousins is Kyle's archetypal QB. While I think KIrk playing many years in Kyle's offense would be easily a top 10 QB, I just never bought him as Kyle's vision. Kyle's offense is an evolutionary version of his Pop's and Kubiak's.......For me Kyle's archetype is Steve Young or John Elway. Trey feels like taking a swing for that type of guy (AND NO....I'm not saying Trey is Steve or John)

Agree with all the folks that want Trey to prove it this year and take the job.

I think it's going to be really, really hard for him to do that.

And I think this whole "rookie QBs start now" concept is dumb and so is the "we should take the bumps with him now" commentary. They do start. They don't win Super Bowls. One extra loss because of Trey's bumps may mean we don't get a bye week or lose home field advantage.. or even miss the playoffs altogether.

As talented as Trey is, we have a real Super Bowl window this year and somehow thinking Trey will be more effective in this offense than Jimmy is by week 1 or this season is a stretch. Jimmy plays like a top 12-15 QB when he's out there… to think that a rookie QB will be at that level is is stretch.

Remember how Wentz played in year 1. How about Josh Alben? Lets go win a ring this year and trade Jimmy for a bounty after.