Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Blah blah blah. Still in here spewing your "QB makes the OL" B.S. That's annually disproven so no need to rehash that esp. when our OL is nowhere near that come playoff time anyways.

The closest anyone has come to that myth is Burrow and he lost too.

Carry on though. If you want to say an upper level QB helps an upper level OL and vice versa modestly, I'll buy it. It helps. Hell, it might even end up being the difference.

to me,, a upper level qb can mask a lower quality o line short term but sooner or later that band aid comes off and the qb is hurt and there goes your season. right now,, we have a line filled with multiple question marks at all but one spot and that is scary no matter the qb.

Yup. Whether QB (Jimmy) or OL (Garland, Person, Compton, Brunskill), both can help each other with a lightning TTT and short-area RAC receivers and stellar run blocking but eventually, talent will need to stand on its own and make a play. And that's where we reach our end.

the proof goes back to alex.... when ck took over.. the pass protection was better or so it seemed...ck at the time moved better in the pocket so it covered up the bad pass protection. then as ck was exposed as a one trick pony. the bad protection returned.. it was horrible all during jt and chip and i do not even know what that was.. when jimmy came before his knee injury.. it looked better as he moved around a bit better than the alleged qbs we had before him.. well as he was hurt and exposed. the bad pass protection returned and now we have trey who may be able to move around better. avoid hits and i am sure.. some will say. see the o line is not bad... but sooner or later we all sleep alone and i hope we do not pay the price or trey pays the price for bad pass protection

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Right and like Hero stated, that's how these younger QBs are being taught to throw the ball. A lot of these young QBs are elite athletes now, it's not the Tom Brady's of the world that are becoming 5 star QB recruits. The whole point is to be able to move and make throws a long with standing in the pocket and throwing the ball. The league is changing and has been for a while. Tom Brady at 45 or however old he is, is one of one. Dude is so mentally ahead of everyone from decades of playing that he knows where to go before the ball is snapped. His footwork is pristine, which makes him so accurate. His pocket presence is elite. It's funny I saw a stat, Tommy threw more 20+ passing attempts then anyone in the league and yet he had the 2nd highest TTT in the NFL So the whole you need a elite pass-blocking OL in order to throw the ball downfield is kinda moot. You need an elite QB who can process pre/post. You need a scheme that doesn't allow a D to pin their ears back every down.

am I reading this right? 2nd highest time to throw and most 20 yard passes but don't need elite pass blocking to throw downfield?

From the #1 ranked OL (until Wirfs gets hurt again, of course). Must be nice to live in that world of reality.

In this situation I'm pretty sure that means his TTT is the second quickest. Which Is more consistent with NY's point

So Brady made his OL better?

Correct…Most people wouldn't be shocked by this (well maybe a couple in here).

With primarily the same OL/coaching staff Winston was near the top of the league in sacks the year prior.

it's down right stupid to not think having a QB the caliber of Brady wouldn't help any OL improve.

Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

The degree to which they both "helped the OL" is not as significant as many would expect.

That doesn't mean they didn't help though...whether it's an athletic (Mahomes) top 5 TTT QB (Brady - quick release and proper pre snap reads and flawless execution), it helps. The flip side works the same way. Staffords OL allowed him to play his game (a high 2.76 TTT + a league leading 600+ passing attempts). They help each other.

If anything it just proves the marriage between the two is a critical component to winning it all.

And one missing piece (non-elite QB or OL) and it can fall apart instantly. You can only go so far.

Do you mind if you link the sources you got for them having the number one line in 2019 From what I remember the Buccs o line from that year was much maligned and the addition of wirfs really helped them along with Brady getting the hall out quick.

See the OL thread. Loads of info in there.

The OL thread is almost 2000 pages long with most of the pages being complaints about the quality of our own OL, most of the sources I've looked up had the buccs more middling from that year as well as posters posting different stats that suggest they weren't the number one o line 2019

Originally posted by NCommand:
Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

Here we go...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Wait so the 1# OL in the league had Winston top 5 in sacks? The year before Brady showed up it was all about how they needed to get upgrades. Jensen was not some elite stud. Smith was looked at as a overpaid LT. Cappa was never a pro-bowler or some elite guard. Marpet was the only true elite guy on that OL.

it was significant to the point where they were near the top of the sack/hit list all the way near the bottom with Brady. 2nd lowest TTT in the league yet most 20+ yard attempts lol. Yeah that has nothing to do with the QB 😂

wait since when is 2.76 TTT high? Jimmy G was 2.67 lol. Kirk was 2.76 Matt Ryan was 2.77.

yes I agree you can only go so far without one or the other. That was NEVER my debate with you. It was the value a great QB brings to improving everything including the OL and the misconception that guard play is some thing where you need elite talent to be successful.

Inherited #1 my ass lol

Oh look who needs proof (and will ignore again).

1. BUCCANEERS (Joe Gilbert) – Preseason rank: 3
LT Donovan Smith
LG Ali Marpet
C Ryan Jensen
RG Alex Cappa
RT Tristan Wirfs

The Bucs have been the healthiest of the elite units this season without a single player missing a start and all five guys playing at least 97% of the teams' snaps. The unit is led by their three elite players on the line (Ali Marpet, Ryan Jensen, Tristan Wirfs) who have maintained their status among the league's best at their position through eight games. Donovan Smith has continued his 2020 level of play, which was the best of his career up until that point. A large portion of the unit's success as pass-protectors can be attributed to QB Tom Brady's near flawless pocket presence and quick trigger, but when you study them on film they are communicating and playing off of one another exceptionally well, plus winning their individual matchups at a ridiculously high level. This is a unit without a glaring weakness, blue-chip talent at several spots, and a line's best friend at QB in Brady to help make their lives easier in protection.

Keep making s**t up lol

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Right and like Hero stated, that's how these younger QBs are being taught to throw the ball. A lot of these young QBs are elite athletes now, it's not the Tom Brady's of the world that are becoming 5 star QB recruits. The whole point is to be able to move and make throws a long with standing in the pocket and throwing the ball. The league is changing and has been for a while. Tom Brady at 45 or however old he is, is one of one. Dude is so mentally ahead of everyone from decades of playing that he knows where to go before the ball is snapped. His footwork is pristine, which makes him so accurate. His pocket presence is elite. It's funny I saw a stat, Tommy threw more 20+ passing attempts then anyone in the league and yet he had the 2nd highest TTT in the NFL So the whole you need a elite pass-blocking OL in order to throw the ball downfield is kinda moot. You need an elite QB who can process pre/post. You need a scheme that doesn't allow a D to pin their ears back every down.

am I reading this right? 2nd highest time to throw and most 20 yard passes but don't need elite pass blocking to throw downfield?

From the #1 ranked OL (until Wirfs gets hurt again, of course). Must be nice to live in that world of reality.

In this situation I'm pretty sure that means his TTT is the second quickest. Which Is more consistent with NY's point

So Brady made his OL better?

Correct…Most people wouldn't be shocked by this (well maybe a couple in here).

With primarily the same OL/coaching staff Winston was near the top of the league in sacks the year prior.

it's down right stupid to not think having a QB the caliber of Brady wouldn't help any OL improve.

Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

The degree to which they both "helped the OL" is not as significant as many would expect.

That doesn't mean they didn't help though...whether it's an athletic (Mahomes) top 5 TTT QB (Brady - quick release and proper pre snap reads and flawless execution), it helps. The flip side works the same way. Staffords OL allowed him to play his game (a high 2.76 TTT + a league leading 600+ passing attempts). They help each other.

If anything it just proves the marriage between the two is a critical component to winning it all.

And one missing piece (non-elite QB or OL) and it can fall apart instantly. You can only go so far.

Do you mind if you link the sources you got for them having the number one line in 2019 From what I remember the Buccs o line from that year was much maligned and the addition of wirfs really helped them along with Brady getting the hall out quick.

See the OL thread. Loads of info in there.

The OL thread is almost 2000 pages long with most of the pages being complaints about the quality of our own OL, most of the sources I've looked up had the buccs more middling from that year as well as posters posting different stats that suggest they weren't the number one o line 2019

Go back 1 page. I reposted both again for you.

FYI, Brandon Thorn (Bucs) is probably the single best source. He's all OL, 24-7 for years. He's like the Eric Crocker of DB analysis (before he joined a million podcasts).

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yup. Whether QB (Jimmy) or OL (Garland, Person, Compton, Brunskill), both can help each other with a lightning TTT and short-area RAC receivers and stellar run blocking but eventually, talent will need to stand on its own and make a play. And that's where we reach our end.

like the secondary.. a good pass rush covers it up.. for a while but then it will bite you in the ass... just like the 2012 super bowl

lots of concern posts outweigh the down right complaining posts in my opinion here

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yup. Whether QB (Jimmy) or OL (Garland, Person, Compton, Brunskill), both can help each other with a lightning TTT and short-area RAC receivers and stellar run blocking but eventually, talent will need to stand on its own and make a play. And that's where we reach our end.

like the secondary.. a good pass rush covers it up.. for a while but then it will bite you in the ass... just like the 2012 super bowl

Bingo. Like how the entire team s**ts the bed in the 4Q.

The team was built along the DL and running and both collapsed when needed most but nobody wants to talk about that. Imagine spending a gazillion resources and money on DL only to watch it be rendered useless when we need it most. Sad.

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:
The OL thread is almost 2000 pages long with most of the pages being complaints about the quality of our own OL, most of the sources I've looked up had the buccs more middling from that year as well as posters posting different stats that suggest they weren't the number one o line 2019

What he really means is to check HIS thread. He's simply promoting his product. Nothing more.



OT and I'm all for "personalized" threads....dont get me wrong. Just dont think that generic topic threads like OL and Injuries should be commanded by single posters.

While the rams were tied for #1 last year in PBWR, the bucs were 17th in 2020 and the chiefs were 14th the year before that. While it certainly helps having a top QB and top PP, I don't think it is an end all be all to winning a SB. I couldn't seem to find those rankings any further back than 2019 but it would be interesting to see where the other SB winning teams ranked over the past 2 decades.

all i see is proof that good QBs make the OL better

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yup. Whether QB (Jimmy) or OL (Garland, Person, Compton, Brunskill), both can help each other with a lightning TTT and short-area RAC receivers and stellar run blocking but eventually, talent will need to stand on its own and make a play. And that's where we reach our end.

like the secondary.. a good pass rush covers it up.. for a while but then it will bite you in the ass... just like the 2012 super bowl

Bingo. Like how the entire team s**ts the bed in the 4Q.

The team was built along the DL and running and both collapsed when needed most but nobody wants to talk about that. Imagine spending a gazillion resources and money on DL only to watch it be rendered useless when we need it most. Sad.

Elite QB's can and will do that to you.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Ghostofabshelmet:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Right and like Hero stated, that's how these younger QBs are being taught to throw the ball. A lot of these young QBs are elite athletes now, it's not the Tom Brady's of the world that are becoming 5 star QB recruits. The whole point is to be able to move and make throws a long with standing in the pocket and throwing the ball. The league is changing and has been for a while. Tom Brady at 45 or however old he is, is one of one. Dude is so mentally ahead of everyone from decades of playing that he knows where to go before the ball is snapped. His footwork is pristine, which makes him so accurate. His pocket presence is elite. It's funny I saw a stat, Tommy threw more 20+ passing attempts then anyone in the league and yet he had the 2nd highest TTT in the NFL So the whole you need a elite pass-blocking OL in order to throw the ball downfield is kinda moot. You need an elite QB who can process pre/post. You need a scheme that doesn't allow a D to pin their ears back every down.

am I reading this right? 2nd highest time to throw and most 20 yard passes but don't need elite pass blocking to throw downfield?

From the #1 ranked OL (until Wirfs gets hurt again, of course). Must be nice to live in that world of reality.

In this situation I'm pretty sure that means his TTT is the second quickest. Which Is more consistent with NY's point

So Brady made his OL better?

Correct…Most people wouldn't be shocked by this (well maybe a couple in here).

With primarily the same OL/coaching staff Winston was near the top of the league in sacks the year prior.

it's down right stupid to not think having a QB the caliber of Brady wouldn't help any OL improve.

Incorrect. He hed the #1 ranked OL before he arrived and helped maintain it as the #1 unit. Like Stafford took the #3 OL and helped get it to #1.

The degree to which they both "helped the OL" is not as significant as many would expect.

That doesn't mean they didn't help though...whether it's an athletic (Mahomes) top 5 TTT QB (Brady - quick release and proper pre snap reads and flawless execution), it helps. The flip side works the same way. Staffords OL allowed him to play his game (a high 2.76 TTT + a league leading 600+ passing attempts). They help each other.

If anything it just proves the marriage between the two is a critical component to winning it all.

And one missing piece (non-elite QB or OL) and it can fall apart instantly. You can only go so far.

Do you mind if you link the sources you got for them having the number one line in 2019 From what I remember the Buccs o line from that year was much maligned and the addition of wirfs really helped them along with Brady getting the hall out quick.

See the OL thread. Loads of info in there.

The OL thread is almost 2000 pages long with most of the pages being complaints about the quality of our own OL, most of the sources I've looked up had the buccs more middling from that year as well as posters posting different stats that suggest they weren't the number one o line 2019

Go back 1 page. I reposted both again for you.

FYI, Brandon Thorn (Bucs) is probably the single best source. He's all OL, 24-7 for years.

Thanks! So from what i can understand to the
excerpt you posted that seems to be from a power ranking from 2021 though it does mention that in 2020 they were pre season ranked at 3, which I think a lot of it has to do with the addition of wirfs because their 19 o line the one that Brady inherited wasn't considered the top notch unit it's considered today

Originally posted by YACBros85:
While the rams were tied for #1 last year in PBWR, the bucs were 17th in 2020 and the chiefs were 14th the year before that. While it certainly helps having a top QB and top PP, I don't think it is an end all be all to winning a SB. I couldn't seem to find those rankings any further back than 2019 but it would be interesting to see where the other SB winning teams ranked over the past 2 decades.

It's not the end-all, be-all. But it certainly gives you the best chance. I can't find a better combo yet.

Also, keep in mind the volume of attempts for those teams too.

Elite QBs can mask a weakness until It eventually gets exposed when It matters most?. Let's hope Lance Is elite then. He may need to be playing behind this O-Line.